Sexual Assaults in the militaryFollow

McCain says women shouldn't join up



Can't say I disagree. I've got a niece that's nearly 10, and recently saw an air show that prompted her to tell her parents that she wants to join the Air Force. If she were graduating this year I have to say I would be concerned. While sexual assault in the military is certainly nothing new, it does seem to be getting worse rather than better. Or perhaps it's simply more publicized now. They keep talking about it but they don't seem to be doing anything significant to improve things.

Edited, Jun 4th 2013 4:38pm by Kakar

1 in 4 women is raped at college.

1 in 1 DOJ statistic is being interpreted incorrectly in your post. The number is actually (foregoing the whole 'women don't admit to being raped out of shame' thing) around 1 in 12. Which is much less interesting. If you'd like more information about how the factoid you blindly splooged into your post without spending 5 seconds researching is incorrect, let me know.

WTF? Being a victim of a crime does not mean that there aren't things women (and men for that matter) can do to protect themselves from rape. You're obviously just making up stuff to support your claim.



Is there a correlation between sexual harassment and sexual assault?



Unless the bartender is drugging you, there are things you can do to prevent being a drugged. As a non-drinker, I've had people buy me drinks in attempt to see me drunk. I was smart enough not to drink them.

Since you're big on stats, I think most stats show that most rapes happen from known people, not strangers off the street.



So, there are things that a woman can do to help prevent being raped?



That depends on how literal you are defining "power and control". That's some psychological nonsense that society say to try to understand a rapist. I would argue that most rapes occur when a man is expecting sex and the woman disagrees/changes her mind. If the woman agreed, I would argue that there wouldn't have been a rape. However, if it were based on "power and control", then the rape would happen regardless of the woman's intention. I would agree in the cases where the victim is a minor, power and control is probably a larger factor.



False. You can very well teach women to respect themselves and be seen as humans in other eyes. What you meant to say is that, regardless on how a woman presents herself, that is not an excuse to rape her. At the same time, you can't argue that she can't do anything about her image.



You're simply wrong. This goes back to DADT. The military is unique in living conditions and sex restrictions. While sexual harassment maybe prevalent everywhere, sexual assault definitely varies when you have sexually depraved half naked people living next to each other.



Read above. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

But you were specifying "at college" not just "in total throughout their life".

Edit:
Seems that if you take those numbers you gave, and apply the percentages of the rapes that first occur during college aged, (say, 18-25) then that does put that number closer to 1 in 12 or 13.

Edited, Jun 4th 2013 9:27pm by TirithRR

Except those numbers didn't come from actual studies.

Every study, ever, uses statistical projections. And, yes, the more data you have over time makes for a better study.

That doesn't invalidate this research. That's an absurd stance.

All it says is that research with more data points would be preferable. In this case, the two principle questions that would need to be answered are whether or not the rate of rapes remains stable across years (which, given that each of these studies WAS conducted in different years, I'm guessing is either stable or on a slight decline), and the rate at which rapes are committed against victims previously targeted (which, if meaningful, would obviously influence the statistic with regards to number of women).

Also, the fact that they recommend further study isn't a flag for concern, it's basic procedure. Every study will end with a discussion of challenges they faced, how they addressed those challenges (if they could), and all factors that could affect their conclusions. They will supplement this with a call to action with regards to topic areas where data is lacking. For a study on something like this, longitudinal data is the natural conclusion. As it is for every study with an open-ended timeline. It's built into the central concept.

[EDIT]

And I'm willing to trust Kakar's link that the rate of assault is 1 in 3 for women in the military. The same link says it's 1 in 6 for civilians.

That said, the link does NOT say that 1 in 3 women in the military are raped while in the military, while on duty, by service members, etc. And to be clear, I'm talking about the item they actually cited, which has a link in their references section.

It's specifically stating the population of female veterans, 1/3 of which report a history of sexual abuse when they initially join (according to that same source).

You're completely ignoring the fact that there may be a significant correlation between past assault and a desire to join the armed forces.

The only statistics that source cite with regards to rapes internally is that estimates range from 20% to 48%. So, 1 in 5 (roughly civilian) to about 1 in 2 (way worse than civilian). College rape frequency is almost certainly higher than with civilians. Maybe it's lower, maybe it's higher. I don't really care which is the worse environment. Because my only point was that discouraging a young woman from entering into the armed forces because there's potential she could be raped is absurd when the clear alternative, college, is (at best) almost just as bad.

I'm inclined to believe it would be far healthier to give her your encouragement with whatever career path she chooses, with eyes wide open, so that if (god forbid) something terrible happens, she's not faced with a culture of "I told you so."




Also, no, I refused to respond to Alma because he was being a pig.

Edited, Jun 4th 2013 10:36pm by idiggory

Bull.

Dress has nothing to do with it.

Step one to avoid date-rape - Don't go drink in bars with strangers.

All it says is that research with more data points would be preferable.

There's a ton of data. The number for being the victim of a sexual assault while at college is about 1 in 12. You not understanding statistics doesn't imply a lack of data. Let it the fuck go. 1 in 1000 is too high of a number, it's just lazy and intellectually dishonest to use a bullsh*t manufactured shock statistic that should be next to a chart in USA today to try to make your point more convincing. It's already convincing, it doesn't require lazy lies that undermine it. 1 in 4 women who have attended college might have been victims of assault...in their lifetime. Assaulted while at university? Not the case. Actually one of the least likely places to be such a victim. While the age cohort is the most likely to experience being victimized, the occurrences are heavily weighted towards break periods. So heavily, in fact, that's more likely a woman will be assaulted home on break than at school.

Hysteria doesn't help.



Edited, Jun 5th 2013 8:41am by Smasharoo

Sure, if you're the raper, you know - don't rape. Most of us are looking at this from the other side. If you're simply a person that wants to avoid violence or unwanted sexual advances from others, avoiding getting drunk in strange bars will reduce your chances of that.

Telling my would be rapist in the moment not to rape me is not really the most effective method of avoiding the crime.

If you don't want your wallet stolen it's probably not a good idea to leave it on your table at the restaurant when you go to the bathroom. Or I suppose you could just make an announcement to the all in the dining room asking nicely that you'd like for no one to steal or tamper with your wallet while you step away to relieve yourself.

The quote I was responding to, mentioned date-rape.

Let's not call it a bar then, lets call it a frat house, or a bon-fire in the back forties. Any place young people congregate, and consume mind-altering stuff, there is a higher likely hood of one of them taking sexual advantage of another.

What I find insulting is that you think you have a clue about getting raped or not getting raped.

What I find insulting is that you think you have a clue about getting raped or not getting raped.

Sure, I'm a not a woman and I've never been raped, so how could I possibly understand any of the social dynamics. What? Education? Meaningless! Rape sucks, sorry if something terrible happened to you. That said, being raped gives one no special insight into causes or risk factors, and if anything makes it almost impossible to objectively asses them.

So let's be clear, about the worst people to offer advice about reducing the instance of sexual assault are rape victims. It's the same reason we don't take car safety advice from people who were in horrible accidents instead of engineers.

You haven't offered up one piece of advice for an individual who wants to avoid being raped. You're talking about 'incidences'. Go for it. That's what you do.

It's not gonna help me a lick when i have to decide if I'm going to go full -out drunk when I'm visiting a friend in a strange city and then, in the wee hours of the morning, will I take public transportation or a cap to my hotel room on the other side of town.

You haven't offered up one piece of advice for an individual who wants to avoid being raped.

There isn't any. That's the point. Offering "advice" makes rape a ludicrous morality play where the victim who went drinking with strangers should have known better. "Oh she didn't take the 'advice' and she got raped. Tsk tsk, let's quietly smugly **** shame her and pat ourselves on our backs for being such poor 'rape targets'" Rape isn't about victims making mistakes.