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That Gamers Women Trope Thingie #2 is UpFollow

#1 May 29 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs

I only watched the first ten minutes. As I said previously, she really needs a better writer/narrator because these are boring as **** and poorly paced. Anyway, from what I did see her complaints seemed nearly identical to the previous video -- rescuing helpless women being used as an impetus for the male character.

Anyway, any excuse for a derail after post #4 into something about equal wages or why women don't deserve to become CEOs because they get pregnant.

My response from another forum (Steam, if you care) somewhat out of context but you're all smart enough to pick up on it:
I wrote:
I do agree somewhat with poorly written. I think it can also be considered an over-reliance on what's shown to work (which is sort of the same thing). Women are used as an incentive to progress because romantic and familial bonds are something almost everyone can relate to so you don't have to waste a ton of time setting it up. If you make the end goal a packet of documents or something you need to justify why these documents are worth risking your life over and players may disagree. Furthermore, something like that has to be a "large goal" to make it worthwhile -- maybe you'd kill a thousand men between you and the red button that'll destroy the world but you probably (hopefully) wouldn't kill a thousand men to reclaim your stolen checkbook. Make the end goal your wife/love/daughter and almost anyone, even non-world-saving Everymans, can instantly relate and would say "Yeah, ok... we need to save her". Or even "I will avenge her." It's "lazy" in that it's used a lot but it's used a lot because nothing else really fills the same slot as far as instant incentive goes. If you want to end this trope, you should start by offering things that combine the same emotional impetus with the same lack of needed exposition.

The end goal can't free themselves because, if they could, there wouldn't be a game. Or it would be a game that invalidated the time you just spent on it to reach your goal and find her sitting on a pile of corpses, watching TV. If someone made a game where you spent hours trying to reach the nuclear launch codes only to be told in the end "Oh, those were last week's codes, you didn't need to do all that" it would be about the same as reaching your "damsel in distress" and finding out she already had things well in hand.

I will say that the "daughter" angle is over done in my opinion. Actually (and somewhat off topic from damsels) I was watching the trailers for Last of Us and realized that I was rather unaffected by a **** girl with a gun or braining people with bricks. The genre is so saturated with **** Girl Warriors who are supposed to shock me ("She's a girl and she did that!") that I'm over it. An 11 year old boy being forced to level a gun and shoot someone to rescue his father would actually impact me much more at this point.


When I looked at the previous Video #1 thread here I noticed I said close to the same stuff. Again, nothing really new this time around.
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#2 May 29 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Wasn't the first video based around, in a small part at least, the rerelease of Double Dragon? The one where at the end of the game the damsel in distress actually not only saves herself but kicks the Big Bad™ square in the junk? Or was it the "if you stretch far enough you can turn any mention of a female in any medium to be sexist" one? I wonder what she thinks of Gail Simone.
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#3 May 29 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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My Female Sith Warrior brutally slaughters all manners of innocents in a reckless bid for personal power.

She should do a thingie on that.
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#4 May 29 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
My Female Sith Warrior brutally slaughters all manners of innocents in a reckless bid for personal power.
Bitches be crazy.
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#5 May 29 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
My Female Sith Warrior brutally slaughters all manners of innocents in a reckless bid for personal power.
Bitches be crazy.
Should never call someone with a lightsaber crazy. It usually doesn't end well.
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#6 May 29 2013 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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How about a giant purple **** in the hands of a fat black **** with a purple afro?

Saints Row III: Fighting All Isms.
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#7 May 29 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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And people complain there's not enough diversity...

Smiley: disappointed
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#8 May 29 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
You don't actually do anything besides post in forums do you.
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#9 May 29 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure he and a gang of liberals travel the country and meddle in Republican affairs.
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#10 May 29 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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It doesn't take that long to post stuff.

Or maybe it does... Smiley: lol

Edited, May 29th 2013 10:01am by someproteinguy
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#11 May 29 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm sure he and a gang of liberals travel the country and meddle in Republican affairs.

I think he meant you.
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#12 May 29 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm insulted then. I clearly also make image macros.

Edited, May 29th 2013 1:09pm by lolgaxe
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#13 May 29 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I outsource all my work to China and then spend time looking at funny pictures of cats.
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#14 May 29 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
My Female Sith Warrior brutally slaughters all manners of innocents in a reckless bid for personal power.
Bitches be crazy.
Should never call someone with a lightsaber crazy. It usually doesn't end well.
I don't think I've ever played a Star Wars game so I'm not afraid of lightsabers.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#15 May 29 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I post on other forums because you guys are boring as fuck. The lack of passion in our relationship has caused me to cheat with other boards.
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#16 May 29 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriously? Like never? How'd you manage that?

They're usually not the greatest games or anything, but they're just about everywhere.
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#17 May 29 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Because I'm really not that much of a gamer. Aside from WoW, some gamecube stuff, Rollercoaster tycoon and the Assassin's Creed series I've only messed around with a few RTS games that I suck at.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#18 May 29 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I own both KOTOR games but have yet to play them.

Edited, May 29th 2013 12:47pm by Jophiel
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#19 May 29 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Because I'm really not that much of a gamer. Aside from WoW, some gamecube stuff, Rollercoaster tycoon and the Assassin's Creed series I've only messed around with a few RTS games that I suck at.

Well I'd implore you to go out and some of try them, but I'm not sure you're missing much. SWTOR is "free" which is pretty much the biggest reason I'm playing it at the moment. That and there's a need for some actual storylines after 3 months in TERA. Smiley: lol

Jophiel wrote:
I own both KOTOR games but have yet to play them.

Smiley: disappointed
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#20 May 29 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't watched the whole thing, but what I saw seemed very redundant with the first video. I think the general premise is sound. This video did seem more derisive of individual games, which I typically think is a fool's errand (feminism in media always makes a better case when it looks at the big picture, like the Bechdel Test. There's nothing wrong with any single game featuring a damsel in distress, after all.).

The presentation's also a little dry and academic, which isn't what I usually go for in videos - if I'm watching something, it needs to really engage my eyes, and I don't think repetitious clips from exemplary games really fit that bill. But I think the larger point is well taken, all the same. I'm curious to see the videos move on to other topics, as this one seems to be mined dry.

Edited, May 29th 2013 2:01pm by Eske
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#21 May 29 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
My Female Sith Warrior brutally slaughters all manners of innocents in a reckless bid for personal power.

She should do a thingie on that.
She's a ****
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#22 May 29 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm curious to see the videos move on to other topics, as this one seems to be mined dry.
Sexism in books? Sexism in movies? Sexism in music? Sexism in television? Sexism the Flame Thrower? She's certainly not going to move away from sexism; It's her bread and butter.
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#23 May 29 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
My Female Sith Warrior brutally slaughters all manners of innocents in a reckless bid for personal power.

She should do a thingie on that.
She's a dyke.

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#24 May 29 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm curious to see the videos move on to other topics, as this one seems to be mined dry.
Sexism in books? Sexism in movies? Sexism in music? Sexism in television? Sexism the Flame Thrower? She's certainly not going to move away from sexism; It's her bread and butter.

I know. It's almost like people like **** or something.

My current MMO character is a Warg. She'd love a **** bow for her hair, but it pretty happy with just a good pounce.
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#25 May 29 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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As amusing as I find the comments and ratings disabled on her videos, I think the funniest thing is "trigger warning" is almost literally two weeks old Tumblr talk. That stinks of pandering to me, and I have no real reason to take anything she says serious. I mean, besides the stuff she says not giving me much reason to take her serious. Icing, cake, etc.
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#26 May 29 2013 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm curious to see the videos move on to other topics, as this one seems to be mined dry.
Sexism in books? Sexism in movies? Sexism in music? Sexism in television? Sexism the Flame Thrower? She's certainly not going to move away from sexism; It's her bread and butter.


Since it's the topic of the video series, well, yeah. But the other topics I'm referring to are the other tropes - I'm too lazy to look 'em up, but the series is supposed to be composed of 12 or so different sexist tropes, one per video.

Edited, May 29th 2013 3:16pm by Eske
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#27 May 29 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I think the funniest thing is "trigger warning" is almost literally two weeks old Tumblr talk.

I obviously didn't watch far enough because I have no idea what this means.
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#28 May 29 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I think the funniest thing is "trigger warning" is almost literally two weeks old Tumblr talk.

I obviously didn't watch far enough because I have no idea what this means.


My understanding is that it's a disclaimer for victims of sexual assault, rape, etc. that indicates the following material might trigger flashbacks, dredge up bad memories, and the like.

I have no idea why this might be problematic to lolgaxe.
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#29 May 29 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had a flashback to the time a gorilla kidnapped me.

And raped me Smiley: frown
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#30 May 29 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I had a flashback to the time a gorilla kidnapped me.

And raped me Smiley: frown

...and then never called as promised?

The trigger warning is on the page. Presumably you'll be warned before viewing. If not, 'reload'.
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#31 May 29 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, that. How boring. I thought it was something in the video itself.
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#32 May 29 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I only watched the first ten minutes. As I said previously, she really needs a better writer/narrator because these are boring as **** and poorly paced.
Ugh, you're not kidding.
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#33 May 29 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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She has all the charm of a workplace sexual harassment training tape.
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#34 May 29 2013 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sounds like a good backup career if this doesn't pan out.
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#35 May 29 2013 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Oh **** hell. That is painful to listen to let alone watch.

On a side note, not a **** thing game developers do will make her happy.

Also Dishonor spoiler. Smiley: mad
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#36 May 29 2013 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Criminy wrote:
On a side note, not a **** thing game developers do will make her happy.


I've not read nor listened to anything she has, but judging by the page long list of roles she said women were stuck in from Joph's last thread, this is true.
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#37 May 29 2013 at 10:46 PM Rating: Good
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With the disabled comments and the disabled ratings, I am sure she is so high on her own supply that she can only love the smell of her own bull$hit, and declares it the finest in the land. She she seems to look at the world with a view just as skewed as the people she is targeting.
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#38 May 29 2013 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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I took a look through a dozen-plus or so of her other Tropes vs Women stuff. Man, I'd hate to watch, read, or play anything that fit all the non-sexist criteria those made. I'm falling into her Straw Feminist trap now... she wants me to say bad stuff about her, to be used as evidence. It's a Feminist Conspiracy! (Oops, there I go).

Legitimate sexism issues exist, her videos seem to grasp at every possible straw though. The way she formats it, disagreeing with it makes you out to be part of the problem...

Edited, May 30th 2013 1:04am by TirithRR
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#39 May 29 2013 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
With the disabled comments and the disabled ratings, I am sure she is so high on her own supply that she can only love the smell of her own bull$hit, and declares it the finest in the land. She she seems to look at the world with a view just as skewed as the people she is targeting.


The comments are disabled, of course, because she was getting death threats and all other manner of vitriol in them.

Look, guys, there are legitimate criticisms to be made of the thing. Don't make me the honorary video series defender because you can't contain your nerd rage.
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#40 May 30 2013 at 12:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:

The comments are disabled, of course, because she was getting death threats and all other manner of vitriol in them.
So did Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, and [insert youtube video here]

Edited, May 30th 2013 1:21am by Bardalicious
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#41 May 30 2013 at 4:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I once made an adorable cat video. After the 23rd death threat via the you-tube commentary system, I turned to a life of crime and abject brutality.
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#42 May 30 2013 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:

Look, guys, there are legitimate criticisms to be made of the thing. Don't make me the honorary video series defender because you can't contain your nerd rage.
If you hold it in you'll get a tummy ache.
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#43 May 30 2013 at 6:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Don't make me the honorary video series defender because you can't contain your nerd rage.
What rage? She's using memes and is afraid of the internet, the same people she's trying to appeal to. That's grade A hilarious.
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#44 May 30 2013 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Don't make me the honorary video series defender because you can't contain your nerd rage.

Too late.

Eske looovvveeesss feminists! Eske looooovvvveeeessss feminists!



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#45 May 30 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Bardalicious wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:

The comments are disabled, of course, because she was getting death threats and all other manner of vitriol in them.
So did Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber, and [insert youtube video here]


Not sure if this was intended to be a counter-point, but it isn't.

TLW wrote:
I once made an adorable cat video. After the 23rd death threat via the you-tube commentary system, I turned to a life of crime and abject brutality.


I hope it was against Youtube commenters.

lolgaxe wrote:
What rage? She's using memes and is afraid of the internet, the same people she's trying to appeal to. That's grade A hilarious.


Yup. It's almost as hilarious as a serviceman who's so irrationally tweaked out by a woman criticizing games on the internet that he's taken to holding up the wholly insignificant fact that 'no youtube comments are allowed on the videos' as some sort of grand indictment.

Hyperbole aside, of course.


You guys... Smiley: oyvey
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#46 May 30 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
It's almost as hilarious as a serviceman who's so irrationally tweaked out by a woman criticizing games on the internet that he's taken to holding up the wholly insignificant fact that 'no youtube comments are allowed on the videos' as some sort of grand indictment.
Oh, I'm terribly sorry. I can't simply dismiss details and facts so easily just so people won't call me names and fit my narrative on the internet. I should have checked my privilege like you have. Smiley: frown
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#47 May 30 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
details


lolgaxe wrote:
facts



Have.....have you not seen a Youtube comment before? Oh my.
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#48 May 30 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Have.....have you not seen a Youtube comment before? Oh my.

Watching this in 2013.
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#49 May 30 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Have.....have you not seen a Youtube comment before? Oh my.
Yes, they're entirely and easily ignorable. Kind of like how you ignored how the "facts and details" wasn't about the youtube comments. It just easier to ignore that to make you feel better, isn't it?
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#50 May 30 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Have.....have you not seen a Youtube comment before? Oh my.
Yes, they're entirely and easily ignorable.


Ignored even easier if they're not allowed. If this is problematic because xXxDarkSaiyan765xXx doesn't get to have everyone see who he called a **** I can live with that.

lolgaxe wrote:
Kind of like how you ignored how the "facts and details" wasn't about the youtube comments.


Well, it certainly didn't apply to anything you were bringing to the table, so one had to make some conjecture for the benefit of teh snark.
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#51 May 30 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't really care that she turned off commenting. 99.95% of it would be garbage anyway and I wouldn't want to be the one sifting for the 0.05% worthwhile material.

It does come across though like she's lecturing when she removes options for a response even if she's not going to read it. But, really, there's enough to complain about without worrying about the state of YouTube comments.

There's legitimate arguments to be made about depictions of women in gaming. She's just not a good messenger for those arguments for several reasons. She is, however, bound to provide a series of videos about how women are poorly treated and I suppose those already firmly in her corner will eat them up, those with knee-jerk reactions against her will flip their shit and everyone else will largely shrug. It's been said but it bears repeating: It's too bad she's so invested in being the face and voice of this because I can't imagine anyone not already aligned with her wanting to sit through 25 minutes of her lecturing. Much less 25 minutes times 12 videos. Classic case of the message being lost in the medium.

Edited, May 30th 2013 10:26am by Jophiel
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