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#1 May 06 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm excited, hopefully some of you other science geeks will find this cool too. If not, well this is a shameless brag post.

Powerful mass spectrometers used to be expensive to buy and expensive to operate. You'd spend a million dollars on a Fourier Transform unit that would take up half of a good sized lab; then you add in the cost of the liquid helium needed to operate and wow there goes your research budget right out the window. Great for the couple of big unversities that could afford it, hopelessly out of reach for someone looking to find a more useful application.

Now you can get something with amazing resolving power for a fraction of the price, and it sits on your lab bench. They've got applications already in the works (don't think anyone will be able to see anything but the abstract unfortunately Smiley: frown).

You grow your diseased tissue in one media with Lysine labelled with one with six 13C atoms and two 15N atoms, the healthy tissue in a culture with eight 2H atoms. The mass additions from those two are +8.0142 Da and +8.0502 Da, seriously that's small fraction of a mass of an electron. You then combine the samples, process them, and shoot them into the mass spectrometer. So many sources of error are removed because you can combine the samples at an early stage in the experiment.

Previous isotopic-tags like this had to have several daltons in mass difference for a readily available instrument to be able to resolve them. That distance meant signal loss as the total amount of material you could use was more or less constant, but that signal was spread out over several daltons, and beyond the isolation width for subsequent analysis. That's not a problem anymore, you can combine samples without signal loss during isolation, and still be able to tell how much signal is coming from which cell culture. What protein levels are up and down, what your potential disease biomarkers are, etc etc.

What makes it cooler is I'm going to be getting something, that sits on my desktop, that can resolve mass differences to a small fraction of a dalton. Now we have another very useful application for it. Freaking awesome.

Science I tell ya, science! Smiley: nod
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#2 May 06 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Science is awesome

I'm excited, hopefully some of you other science geeks will find this cool too. If not, well this is a shameless brag post.

Quote:
Powerful mass spectrometers used to be expensive


That's how far I made it.
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#3 May 06 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's one of those "mine is smaller and more powerful than yours" things. Like cell phones circa 2000-ish. Smiley: wink

I has new toy.
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#4 May 06 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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#5 May 06 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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High resolution mass spec! I actually like analytical. I've never actually been allowed near a mass spectrometer. I do my own NMR (fancy boron NMR, too)?

I'm more excited that my laptop's GPU can do ab initio quantum chemical calculations within a reasonable time frame. I'm currently pushing to get approval for a purely functional re-implementation that will on the types of systems people build for bitcoin mining (which are cheap) as my Master's thesis.

I shouldn't steal your brag space. Sorry.
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#6 May 06 2013 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kalivha wrote:
something

Smiley: yippee

Welcome back, how's been life and stuff? Smiley: grin

Kalivha wrote:
I do my own NMR (fancy boron NMR, too)?


Smiley: thumbsup




Edited, May 6th 2013 1:46pm by someproteinguy
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#7 May 06 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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#8 May 06 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
It's one of those "mine is smaller and more powerful than yours" things. Like cell phones circa 2000-ish. Smiley: wink

Has anyone else noticed that music-playing devices keep getting smaller, but the headphones are getting ridiculously huge? What's up with that?

Also, cool sciencey talk. As I'm in charge of the purchases for the health and medical colleges/departments on campus, I should know more about this kinda stuff. Unfortunately, I'm clueless (I just know the state and university regulations and requirements for purchases Smiley: smile)
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#9 May 06 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
It's one of those "mine is smaller and more powerful than yours" things. Like cell phones circa 2000-ish. Smiley: wink

Has anyone else noticed that music-playing devices keep getting smaller, but the headphones are getting ridiculously huge? What's up with that?
I dunno, I've always had the big headphones. Better sound means happy me.
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#10 May 06 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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huh?
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#11 May 06 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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I've developed a dislike for headphones and music listening. The sound needs to meld with my environment.

Congrats on the desktop MS-like machine thingy. Make sure it fits into your workspace ergonomically. Smiley: clown




Edited, May 6th 2013 11:23pm by Elinda
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#12 May 06 2013 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
I'm excited, hopefully some of you other science geeks will find this cool too. If not, well this is a shameless brag post.

Powerful mass spectrometers used to be expensive to buy and expensive to operate. You'd spend a million dollars on a Fourier Transform unit that would take up half of a good sized lab; then you add in the cost of the liquid helium needed to operate and wow there goes your research budget right out the window. Great for the couple of big unversities that could afford it, hopelessly out of reach for someone looking to find a more useful application.

Now you can get something with amazing resolving power for a fraction of the price, and it sits on your lab bench. They've got applications already in the works (don't think anyone will be able to see anything but the abstract unfortunately Smiley: frown).

You grow your diseased tissue in one media with Lysine labelled with one with six 13C atoms and two 15N atoms, the healthy tissue in a culture with eight 2H atoms. The mass additions from those two are +8.0142 Da and +8.0502 Da, seriously that's small fraction of a mass of an electron. You then combine the samples, process them, and shoot them into the mass spectrometer. So many sources of error are removed because you can combine the samples at an early stage in the experiment.

Previous isotopic-tags like this had to have several daltons in mass difference for a readily available instrument to be able to resolve them. That distance meant signal loss as the total amount of material you could use was more or less constant, but that signal was spread out over several daltons, and beyond the isolation width for subsequent analysis. That's not a problem anymore, you can combine samples without signal loss during isolation, and still be able to tell how much signal is coming from which cell culture. What protein levels are up and down, what your potential disease biomarkers are, etc etc.

What makes it cooler is I'm going to be getting something, that sits on my desktop, that can resolve mass differences to a small fraction of a dalton. Now we have another very useful application for it. Freaking awesome.

Science I tell ya, science! Smiley: nod


I can't one up you, or even come close, but I did successfully instal matlab last week! I never had to do so much for an instal. In any case, doing a comp-neuro sci class and I was good the first week. Not so much the second week. Let's just say that I'm still on the first week....
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#13 May 06 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
They've got applications already in the works
I hope it's Angry Birds!
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#14 May 06 2013 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have a section of reinforced vaccume housing from a decomisioned mass spectrometer out in the parts pile. I'm planning on using it as a ROV pressure hull when i get around to that project.
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#15 May 07 2013 at 3:51 AM Rating: Good
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Screenshot
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Oh. This is my life, yes.

In between the requests of "Kalivha, give me this computer you have lying around but upgrade the GPU first, please!"
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#16 May 07 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Technology for seeing smaller stuff has gotten amazingly better in recent decades. The electron microscopes our FA lab uses are head and shoulders better than the ones they were using just 10 years ago. They can actually use probes in real time and make changes to various layers within a chip on the fly to test fixes to design or fabrication problems. When you consider we're talking about layers that are 2-3 molecules thick, that's pretty amazing.
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#17 May 07 2013 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Technology for seeing smaller stuff has gotten amazingly better in recent decades. The electron microscopes our FA lab uses are head and shoulders better than the ones they were using just 10 years ago. They can actually use probes in real time and make changes to various layers within a chip on the fly to test fixes to design or fabrication problems. When you consider we're talking about layers that are 2-3 molecules thick, that's pretty amazing.

This sounds suspiciously like the stuff my buddy was working on ten years ago. Something about electron gates?
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#18 May 08 2013 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Technology for seeing smaller stuff has gotten amazingly better in recent decades. The electron microscopes our FA lab uses are head and shoulders better than the ones they were using just 10 years ago. They can actually use probes in real time and make changes to various layers within a chip on the fly to test fixes to design or fabrication problems. When you consider we're talking about layers that are 2-3 molecules thick, that's pretty amazing.


Eh, the job I'm starting in a few weeks is about laying the theoretical groundwork to develop materials which will store data at single digit nanogrammes per terabyte. As per random estimates of the size of the Internet, it might be possible to store all of it on 30mg of material. But yeah, that technology isn't going to be released on any scale for at least 20 more years, although I know some people already working on practical implementations, even though we don't have a suitable target molecule yet (the ones that have been found are only stable as data storage at impractical temperatures).
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