Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Feminism... again. Follow

#52 Jun 11 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
Quote:
My comment was to say If you want to make a change in the industry get off your a$$ and make a change dont sit there an complain about it. Show that games with woman leads can be profitable.


Yeah, no ****. Did you honestly think that had escaped anybody?

My comment was to say that casually discarding the very idea of criticism is fucking stupid.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#53 Jun 11 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
'Sup Grumple-butts?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#54 Jun 11 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
I'm bein' real grumpy, and I have a ****.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#55 Jun 11 2013 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,856 posts
Elinda wrote:

Quote:
As for rape, I'm fairly certain that women who wear skimpy clothing are targeted more often. Elinda, I don't see where you went with that.
I'm fairly certain you're full of fruit-loops.


Jophiel wrote:
All of those and a **** spider shape-changer!


Putting these together made me see Demoncard in a new light. Smiley: eek

What we really need is a token character who they use to break as many stereotypes as possible so the rest of the game can be filled with generic and unimaginative White/Asian peoples. Like the ugly black ******* who's trying to save her brother or something.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#56 Jun 11 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
******
43,873 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
What we really need is a token character who they use to break as many stereotypes as possible so the rest of the game can be filled with generic and unimaginative White/Asian peoples. Like the ugly black ******* who's trying to save her brother or something.
So Saints Row III.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#57 Jun 11 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,044 posts
Kavekk wrote:
I'm bein' real grumpy, and I have a ****.

Is this some sort of age related life-stage you're passing through?

(the grumpy part not the **** part)
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#58 Jun 11 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,856 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
What we really need is a token character who they use to break as many stereotypes as possible so the rest of the game can be filled with generic and unimaginative White/Asian peoples. Like the ugly black ******* who's trying to save her brother or something.
So Saints Row III.
Pretty much, they were onto something I tell ya! Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#59 Jun 11 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
someproteinguy wrote:
Like the ugly black ******* who's trying to save her brother or something.

What's Tracey Chapman up to these days? I might have a Mo-Cap gig for her.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#60 Jun 11 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
Elinda wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
I'm bein' real grumpy, and I have a ****.

Is this some sort of age related life-stage you're passing through?

(the grumpy part not the **** part)


They both are, actually. Soon my **** will drop off, grow teeth and bite the throat out of everyone who's ever annoyed me, even a little bit. I can only assume my mood'll improve as a result.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#61 Jun 11 2013 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,686 posts
Kavekk wrote:
I'm bein' real grumpy, and I have a ****.
Just my opinion, but I did it better. Mind you, =28 was overflowing with ****** when I was in full swing.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#62 Jun 11 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
9,324 posts
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
See this is why people get angry, making claims that are unsubstantiated and intentional slanderous. Im not saying the words people used on Twitter were ok, but I understand the feelings behind them.


What are the feelings behind them? "How dare women want to have games that include them as something more than a trophy! C^NT B^TCH *****!

I mean even though there are a couple games with female leads overall (though she was being specific to one presentation) - the overwhelming majority are still white dude heroics.

I think that Jenny Hanniver expresses it well:

Quote:
Jenny Haniver ‏@NitKA_Official 17m

"There's something wrong with the way the gaming community acts towards women." "NO THERE ISN'T YOU STUPID @#%^ NOW MAKE ME A SANDWICH."


Edited, Jun 11th 2013 1:03pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#63 Jun 11 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
I'm bein' real grumpy, and I have a ****.
Just my opinion, but I did it better. Mind you, =28 was overflowing with ****** when I was in full swing.


Sorry, I just can't pull off the ******** chaps the way you can.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#64 Jun 11 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
I mean even though there are a couple games with female leads overall (though she was being specific to one presentation) - the overwhelming majority are still white dude heroics

I dunno... FIFA is full of brown dudes.

I don't think Bean's thought was "How dare women want games... yadda yadda" but more along the lines of "What's up with this woman misrepresenting the games at E3 just so she can score points for her cause?"

Edited, Jun 11th 2013 3:10pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#65 Jun 11 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,856 posts
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
What are the feelings behind them? "How dare women want to have games that include them as something more than a trophy! C^NT B^TCH *****!

More like "Ha ha I trolled you" I'm betting. Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#66 Jun 11 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,199 posts
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
See this is why people get angry, making claims that are unsubstantiated and intentional slanderous. Im not saying the words people used on Twitter were ok, but I understand the feelings behind them.


What are the feelings behind them? "How dare women want to have games that include them as something more than a trophy! C^NT B^TCH *****!

I mean even though there are a couple games with female leads overall (though she was being specific to one presentation) - the overwhelming majority are still white dude heroics.

I think that Jenny Hanniver expresses it well:

Quote:
Jenny Haniver ‏@NitKA_Official 17m

"There's something wrong with the way the gaming community acts towards women." "NO THERE ISN'T YOU STUPID @#%^ NOW MAKE ME A SANDWICH."





No It has nothing to do with Gender, Its the feeling of being attacked unjustly. Its anger at having something you like be ridiculed for the sake of ridicule. I guarantee if it was a man doing it I would feel the same anger. Its how you handle that anger that shows your character, and guess what the internet is full of trolls and douche cookies. She KNEW what response when was going to get and she baited them to make a spectacle.

Edit: Its the same feeling when someone takes a beloved game you grew up with and twists it into something bad for their own gains and agenda, when overall those thoughts were never part of the original process.



[Edit: What Joph said.

Edited, Jun 11th 2013 3:22pm by BeanX
____________________________
What I Play
Recently Played
#67 Jun 11 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
What are the feelings behind them? "How dare women want to have games that include them as something more than a trophy! C^NT B^TCH *****!

More like "Ha ha I trolled you" I'm betting. Smiley: rolleyes


About a billion miles from being mutually exclusive.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#68 Jun 11 2013 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,856 posts
Kavekk wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
What are the feelings behind them? "How dare women want to have games that include them as something more than a trophy! C^NT B^TCH *****!

More like "Ha ha I trolled you" I'm betting. Smiley: rolleyes


About a billion miles from being mutually exclusive.

That's giving them a lot of credit. I'm not convinced that level of complexity exists in some of these people.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#69 Jun 11 2013 at 5:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
28,250 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Pointing out Morrigan's dress is obviously ****-shaming.

Also, it seems to be ethnic "Witch of the Wild" garb so I'm pretty sure it's also racist.



Flemeth doesn't dress that way! She dresses in good, decent peasant rags like a good, decent woman who prefers less rape, if it's all the same to you.

At least until DA2, where she apparently discovers her inner dragon, so to speak.

____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#70 Jun 11 2013 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
28,250 posts
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
My comment was to say If you want to make a change in the industry get off your a$$ and make a change dont sit there an complain about it. Show that games with woman leads can be profitable.


Yeah, no sh*t. Did you honestly think that had escaped anybody?

My comment was to say that casually discarding the very idea of criticism is fucking stupid.



Hey, now. Perhaps you missed this: Don't just the whole by the few, Not every German is a ****.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#71 Jun 11 2013 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
Supreme Lionator
*****
14,174 posts
Samira wrote:
Hey, now. Perhaps you missed this: Don't just the whole by the few, Not every German is a ****.


Who could have guessed he'd be a poet and not know it?

I knew I should have checked the Alpha Centauri planning department.
____________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
#72 Jun 11 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Caffeine Queen
*****
14,450 posts
I read the article this morning about the tweets (and the tweets themselves) towards that feminist disappointed about the lack of female protagonists. And while I get that through her history she might have been taken as baiting, 1> she has a point and 2> whether or not those tweets were trolls, what they wrote should really be unacceptable. As a female gamer myself, I've listened to over 15 years in gen chats and forums about how women don't belong in the gaming community, how there aren't enough female gamers and we shouldn't count, etc, for 15 years. And you know what? It's not cool.

i don't care who was the one to say they were disappointed, those tweets and responses shouldn't happen. And with the latest report coming out to say that 45% gamers are women, it's also utter *********

This has been percolating in the back of my mind all day since I read this article and did some research. I even spent all evening writing a blog about this. It's not an angry post, but more of a call out to guy gamers, asking them to start standing up for us femmes. We can't do it on our own. But we also shouldn't have to. The gaming community is an amazing thing to be a part of, but sometimes as a female gamer, it can really suck. We work just as hard to learn the games, the rotations, the cooldowns, the specs. But because we don't have a *****, this kind of response to a female gamer is just kind of brushed off. Why is that seemingly ok?
____________________________
Uglysasquatch wrote:
DSD kicked Alma in the *** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

Suburban Rebel Mom Blog
#73 Jun 11 2013 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,643 posts
Smiley: inlove DSD.
#74 Jun 11 2013 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
DSD wrote:
1> she has a point

She didn't, really. Her tweet was about one event, ignored the rest of E3 and the games talked about there and was selectively biased to give her something to ***** about. I won't say this excuses some of the things said to her but then a thread about "Should people call other people cunts over Twitter and threaten to rape them?" would probably be a pretty short thread.
Quote:
And with the latest report coming out to say that 45% gamers are women, it's also utter bullsh*t.

Lies, damned lies & stats. Be more interesting to see the percentages excluding stuff like Facebook games, smart phone games, etc.

I'm a little back and forth on Anita S. I started out with a better opinion of her and assuming that she had some points but just wasn't a great spokesperson for them. Lately, she seems like more of an opportunist who is happy to keep playing the same hands, using the same poor arguments and reaping the rewards. Yes, there's a lot of shitty people on social media -- this isn't news. It's not excused or anything but it's not as though people acting like complete ***** is somehow restricted to gaming feminists. It's super easy to cull the worst stuff and post it all in one dump and wring your hands at how unfair it all is and act like this is something special. It's even easier to keep using "People were mean to me" as a defense to obfuscate how poor your arguments are.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#75 Jun 11 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Caffeine Queen
*****
14,450 posts
Quote:
She didn't, really.


She did though. How many games out there really have a female protagonist? Not many. So when you have a slew of new games being presented with not one female main character, as a female, it can be saddening. As I was discussing this with the hubs, even he said after watching the E3, that once I brought that up, it was noticeable.


But That wasn't the point of my post.

My point is that, despite the fact that we femmes equal to almost half of the gaming community, people to this day don't take the derogatory remarks thrown at us seriously. Or if it comes to light (like here), people say "well that sucks" but that's it. Why is that the only reaction we get? All I ask is that guy gamers put themselves in our shoes and read those tweets. Think about your spouse. A friend. A sister. Us Asylumite femmes. Then read the tweets and ask yourself "how is that ok?" And that maybe, just maybe, you gamer guys with your dangly bit, might actually help us speak out against it.

I expect in this particular forum that there is no holds barred. But out there? I sincerely ask, why should we females have to constantly brush off the constant "jokes" in games or on forums that tell us to get back to the kitchen, or that we don't even exist? And why should we not ask our guy gamer friends to stand up and help? Because right now, because we are females, we wont be taken seriously. And for what it's worth, males have the power to make a difference. All I, and I would guess the majority of female gamers out there, ask that you guys do what is considered decent within the gaming universes.

It's really not that hard
____________________________
Uglysasquatch wrote:
DSD kicked Alma in the *** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

Suburban Rebel Mom Blog
#76 Jun 11 2013 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,643 posts
It really bothers me how, whenever someone says "There are a lot more female gamers than are given credit," someone always chimes in with, "I bet that's including Facebook and iPhone games." As if only females are playing Facebook and ap games, and as if by playing Facebook or ap games, that makes them something less.

In my house, my husband started playing the Facebook games. I have largely avoided them. He played Farmville, that role-play adventure game, Bubble Witch Saga, and something else, I think... I play games on my phone, sure, but I also play Skyrim, Dragon Age, and Assassin's Creed. This weekend, while waiting to be seated at restaurants and waiting for buses in Honolulu, almost every guy I saw was sitting with his phone open playing some type of ap game (usually Candy Crush, I can recognize that music in my sleep now). I saw a little girl playing Minecraft on her iPad.

When did "gamer" come to mean exclusively "hardcore role-playing MMORPG game player?" And when was it decided that Facebook and ap games are played exclusively by women?
#77 Jun 11 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
DSD wrote:
She did though. How many games out there really have a female protagonist? Not many. So when you have a slew of new games being presented with not one female main character, as a female, it can be saddening.

She was referring purely to the Xbox event. As noted upthread, there were several games announced that have important female characters and/or protagonists. But by only talking about the one event, she was able to give a false impression that there were no female protagonist games announced at all.

Quote:
My point is that, despite the fact that we femmes equal to almost half of the gaming community, people to this day don't take the derogatory remarks thrown at us seriously. Or if it comes to light (like here), people say "well that sucks" but that's it. Why is that the only reaction we get?

Because everyone gets derogatory remarks thrown at them via social media. The same remarks? Of course not. Why? Because people trying to troll and get a rise use what works and sending some dude a message via Twitter saying he should make you a sandwich isn't really effective.

Quote:
And why should we not ask our guy gamer friends to stand up and help? Because right now, because we are females, we wont be taken seriously.

By who? Idiots on Twitter? You're right, you won't. You never will be. Because they don't want to take anyone seriously, they just want to make a bunch of noise and are thrilled when their comment gets reposted with a bunch of "OMG this is so terrible" responses. Anita S. reposting all their stuff on a blog for people to lose their shit over is the Holy Grail for them. They just won. Some random guys saying "Hey, that's so not cool" is giving them exactly what they want. Ignore, block, delete. Since when has the community at large forgotten how to deal with trolls? You either toy with them because you're bored and it amuses you or you starve them for attention until it's not worth their time and they find someone else to annoy.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#78 Jun 11 2013 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Belkira wrote:
It really bothers me how, whenever someone says "There are a lot more female gamers than are given credit," someone always chimes in with, "I bet that's including Facebook and iPhone games." As if only females are playing Facebook and ap games, and as if by playing Facebook or ap games, that makes them something less.

It doesn't make them "less" but it paints a misleading picture when someone is complaining about the lack of female-driven games for the Xbox and someone else throws out a stat that includes a bunch of people who play Farmville and Bejeweled and who will never, ever buy an Xbox.

If people don't want someone talking about what that 45% actually includes then go find out how many people are actually primarily console gamers or how many females own an Xbox or PS3. Take the Top Twenty games of 2013 and break them down by gender. Stuff like that. Isn't that a lot more useful when talking about the lack of women characters in Ps3 games than dirty "statistics" that cover anything and everything?

"45% of 'gamers' are women" is just a weak stat. It doesn't tell you enough to be useful.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#79 Jun 12 2013 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,643 posts
Jophiel wrote:
It doesn't make them "less" but it paints a misleading picture when someone is complaining about the lack of female-driven games for the Xbox and someone else throws out a stat that includes a bunch of people who play Farmville and Bejeweled and who will never, ever buy an Xbox.

If people don't want someone talking about what that 45% actually includes then go find out how many people are actually primarily console gamers or how many females own an Xbox or PS3. Take the Top Twenty games of 2013 and break them down by gender. Stuff like that. Isn't that a lot more useful when talking about the lack of women characters in Ps3 games than dirty "statistics" that cover anything and everything?

"45% of 'gamers' are women" is just a weak stat. It doesn't tell you enough to be useful.


Sure, but DSD wasn't specifically talking about this one person and her gripes about E3. She's talking about the gaming community as a whole.
#80 Jun 12 2013 at 12:24 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,199 posts
So whats your solution? I see a problem but no ones offering a good solution. The best we can hope for is to educate it out but that takes time. Thats what gets me about this, a lot of people complain about a lot of problems but no one offers solutions. We cant just wave our hands and change everything, Im sure every man on here respects women and our wifes/daughters/spouses. I sure as **** do, My wife is the anit-feminist (She bought a shirt that says I make good sammiches and she knows a ton of raunchy woman jokes -.-)

But part of it too Is the whole "Its sexist/racist Only because im a different gender/color" Its like saying every white/black dispute is a hate crime. Some people dont care if your a girl or a boy they just rip in because they can or want to. Honestly I find the Online gaming scene just as terrifying as woman supposedly do, I mute everyone right away and have my mic muted unless im with friends.

There is a difference between going after someone because they are a woman, Or going after someone because they are a RIVAL (In a competitive game).

Go Play LoL/DotA2 and do bad and watch to see how people treat you not even knowing your gender. They call you every name in the book.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 2:33am by BeanX
____________________________
What I Play
Recently Played
#81 Jun 12 2013 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Belkira wrote:
Sure, but DSD wasn't specifically talking about this one person and her gripes about E3. She's talking about the gaming community as a whole.

She was talking about the gaming community in regards to sexism. I don't know how much sexism women face while playing Triple Town. I do think there's a distinction worth making when people throw out stats. Do you really consider someone who has only ever played Windows solitaire as part of the "gaming community"?

More to it, I guess that "gamer" is a more loaded term than appropriate. Saying "46% of people who play console, mobile or computer games are women" seems more accurate than "46% of gamers are women."

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 1:42am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#82 Jun 12 2013 at 5:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
28,250 posts
****, I'd be happy if every female villain/victim you kill in a game didn't grunt and moan orgasmically as she dies.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#83 Jun 12 2013 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,044 posts
Samira wrote:
****, I'd be happy if every female villain/victim you kill in a game didn't grunt and moan orgasmically as she dies.

Maybe Death's dirty little secret is that it sends you off with one whopping ******.

Even if it's not, it sounds like a great plot line to build a religion around.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#84 Jun 12 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
Caffeine Queen
*****
14,450 posts
Quote:
So whats your solution? I see a problem but no ones offering a good solution. The best we can hope for is to educate it out but that takes time. Thats what gets me about this, a lot of people complain about a lot of problems but no one offers solutions. We cant just wave our hands and change everything,


I think I did offer a solution. But it seems to have been missed. I'll post it again in a moment.

As for it taking time? YES! It's going to take time!!!! So what? Because it might be a long haul, that means it should be disregarded? Why? Why should doing the right thing, even if it takes years be counted out of hand because it might take longer than a day? A week? A year? MMORPGS have been around for a long time, and this idea that women gamers are second class citizens didn't start up in a day. Reversing the effect will take even longer.

I don't normally do this, but I don't have the luxury of computer time today with a bunch of appointments and three kids out of school.I'll try and get back here later tonight. But here is what I ask: I want you to read this post. Really read it and try to get where I (and other female gamers) are coming from.This is a gamers community so it fits here:

"Hey Gamer Guys, We Need To /Chat"

If you agree with the message, help pass it out to your gaming buddies. And when you're gaming and you see this sort of crap, remember us asylumite femmes, and maybe say something
____________________________
Uglysasquatch wrote:
DSD kicked Alma in the *** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

Suburban Rebel Mom Blog
#85 Jun 12 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,849 posts
This isn't just geeks and their games that is a problem.

I saw this woman in her Star Trek Fleet Uniform while I was a Balticon 47 and she look fantastic in it. Sadly when it was time to give her the Hall Costume Contest award, she wasn't at the con. I heard that she left in tears over the way she was treated.

You may say us females should just expect the comments from the trolls and get over it, but then you neglect the fact that these comments are painful to us. Really after growing up having to listen to men tell me that I can't be as smart as I am or a true Geek and Nerd, I am ready to be snarky too and attack anyone who claims that women don't play real video games.
____________________________
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.

"England needs, examples of people who, leaving Heaven to decide whether they are to rise in the world, decide for themselves that they will be happy in it, and have resolved to seek, not greater wealth, but simpler pleasures; not higher fortune, but deeper felicity; making the first of possessions self-possession, and honouring themselves in the harmless pride and calm pursuits of peace." - John Ruskin
#86 Jun 12 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
11,283 posts
ElneClare wrote:
I saw this woman in her Star Trek Fleet Uniform while I was a Balticon 47 and she look fantastic in it. Sadly when it was time to give her the Hall Costume Contest award, she wasn't at the con. I heard that she left in tears over the way she was treated.


She was probably dressed as Wesley Crusher.


Edit: It was a TOS costume, but my joke still stands.

Edit 2: Someone is a Will Wheaton fan.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 1:04pm by Shaowstrike
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#87 Jun 12 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
DSD via Blog wrote:
How many of you have watched gen chat and seen the phrase "There are no girls in MMO's" bandied about?

How many of you have seen in chat or forums, once a girl gamer speaks up, that others tell her to "get back in the kitchen" or "it must be her time of the month"?

How many of you have been reading through gaming forums for info, only to stumble upon a girl bashing thread?

How many of you have seen femmes kicked out/ refused entry to guilds/groups/raids because they are female?

I don't think I've ever seen someone seriously say there's no women in MMORPGs. Or at least not since 2001 or something. Granted one of my old major MMORPGs was City of Heroes which had a sizable female population. This is one of those phrases that, if said, was being said as an obvious (if overused) joke.

Likewise, I've rarely seen/noticed the other points. I'll fully admit that some of that might just be it not affecting me so I didn't notice it. If I was more sensitive to it, I'd probably have taken more notice. The times I've seen a guy act like a **** in general chats towards a female, he was usually told to shut up. Honestly, I'd have guessed that MMORPG chats had about as many White Knights as it does misogynist trolls. Which could be a whole different set of complaints taken from a view of perceiving women but I guess that's not the point.

Maybe I need to play WoW or something so I can bask in anti-woman hatred. Even in TF2, a game filled with complete idiots, I haven't seen much of anything when a female voice pops on chat. Again, I'm only seeing her for a half hour and she's being her forever so maybe she gets crapped on 50x a week and I just wasn't there.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#88 Jun 12 2013 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
ElneClare wrote:
I saw this woman in her Star Trek Fleet Uniform while I was a Balticon 47 and she look fantastic in it. Sadly when it was time to give her the Hall Costume Contest award, she wasn't at the con. I heard that she left in tears over the way she was treated.

You may say us females should just expect the comments from the trolls and get over it, but then you neglect the fact that these comments are painful to us.

I'd consider comments made in person to be different than those made from anonymous twits on Facebook, Twitter, etc. In cases of social media, you have the option to simply ignore/block the person and not give them the satisfaction of a response. It's not a matter of "getting over it" so much as it's a question of appropriate response when, in the case of Anita S., collecting all the tweets and posting them (and then they get reposted by other blogs) is exactly what the people who wrote them wanted to happen. They'd probably be happier with that than if she announced she was leaving the world of gaming forever -- then they wouldn't even have their toy to jerk around any longer. As is, she posts, they reply, she makes a huge deal out of their replies, they love it, she posts again, etc.

She doesn't seem like a stupid woman. I'm sure she can figure this out. That she continues to stoke the cycle suggests that she's less heart-rent by the responses and more happy to use them to advance her agenda/career.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 8:36am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#89 Jun 12 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
******
43,873 posts
DSD wrote:
I sincerely ask, why should we females have to constantly brush off the constant "jokes" in games or on forums that tell us to get back to the kitchen, or that we don't even exist?
So which is it? You want special treatment or equality? If you want equality, all that **** talking is pretty much par for the course. We do it on everything from Call of Duty to Uno.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#90 Jun 12 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,044 posts
DSD wrote:
And when you're gaming and you see this sort of crap, remember us asylumite femmes, and maybe say something

I don't feel like my competence as a gamer, when in groups/raids etc has ever been questioned because of my gender. Admittedly, many times gender is left out of our working knowledge of each other in virtual worls. ****, I though Joph was an middle-aged jaded housewife for the first 3 or 4 months I played EQ with him (he wasn't yet even middle-aged). This is in stark contrast to the real world where I can think of a half a dozen very distinct and obvious situations where I was discriminated again because of my gender.

Sure there are plenty of joksters asking me to make them sammiches, and the games have more male heroes and also more female victims, but those things really don't impact my game. Also I'd hate to see the age old story of the handsome knight rescuing the victimized princess be condemned by our society. It would be a real blow to romanticism.

I read the incredibly mean-spirited, imbecilic comments that you included in your blog DSD. They make me sad. But as mentioned, they're trolling. They want response. It feeds them.

Anyway, game producers will only listen to the money. If you really want to make change i'd be organizing world wide boycotts of games that are notably sexist.





____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#91 Jun 12 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
******
27,272 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Maybe I need to play WoW or something so I can bask in anti-woman hatred. Even in TF2, a game filled with complete idiots, I haven't seen much of anything when a female voice pops on chat. Again, I'm only seeing her for a half hour and she's being her forever so maybe she gets crapped on 50x a week and I just wasn't there.
In the 6+ years I played WoW I haven't seen any of the examples given or anything remotely similar aside from perhaps as a joke.

Of course, I didn't look at the general chats but lets be honest, that **** is so dumb it's offensive to anyone.
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#92 Jun 12 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Elinda wrote:
****, I though Joph was an middle-aged jaded housewife for the first 3 or 4 months I played EQ with him (he wasn't yet even middle-aged).

I had a lot of female characters during my MMORPG days and rarely bothered to correct misconceptions about my own gender because it just wasn't worth it for one-off groups. My usual "Jophiel" name on forums is commonly mistaken as a female name. I don't recall ever being actively harassed* or discriminated against. But, again, that doesn't mean others haven't experienced it. I won't say "It never happened to me so it must not ever happen". It does make it a little harder to see it as a huge issue though.

*One time some obviously young kid kept trying to ask me to cyber him until I said I was going to tell the group what a pervert he was. Then he apologized profusely and stopped. That was on my first EQ cleric and in Oasis so it had to be back in like late 1999 or early 2000.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 9:04am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#93 Jun 12 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
******
27,577 posts
Honestly, I've stood up to idiots like that in chat only to have the women they're talking **** to berate me and tell me that they don't need a white knight to save them, so I've pretty much started ignoring people behaving in a sexist manner in game like I do any other troll, unless it's to someone I know, at which point I try helping them make fun of the idiots.
____________________________
Someone on another forum wrote:
Wow, you've got an awesome writing style.! I really dig the narrator's back story, humor, sarcasm, and the plethora of pop culture references. Altogether a refreshingly different RotR journal (not that I don't like the more traditional ones, mind you).

#94 Jun 12 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Caffeine Queen
*****
14,450 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
DSD wrote:
I sincerely ask, why should we females have to constantly brush off the constant "jokes" in games or on forums that tell us to get back to the kitchen, or that we don't even exist?
So which is it? You want special treatment or equality? If you want equality, all that sh*t talking is pretty much par for the course. We do it on everything from Call of Duty to Uno.



There's a difference between smack talk (something I excel at) and derogatory comments made in general chats or gaming forums (not here, but other sites I see it constantly) when a female gamer speaks. Smack talk I am down for. But when the go to comeback when dealing with a female gamer is about getting back to the kitchen, or that girl gamers suck, it goes from being smack talk to something else.

Quote:
I don't feel like my competence as a gamer, when in groups/raids etc has ever been questioned because of my gender.


Elinda I have also been lucky in that regard... for the most part. The guildies I raid with know me as a competent gamer, who can get the job done without complaint or issues. But, in my history of gaming, I have also seen a lot of females not given the chance that I was from other guilds. There was actually a huge thread not long ago in the official WoW forums, where a female gamer mentioned that when she was interviewed by a few raiding guilds, the moment they heard her voice on vent, they said they didn't take females. She wanted to know if this was common. Now, it's NOT common, but it isn't unheard of either. And a lot of players posted on this thread that they would seriously do the same thing for the reasons: that they were female, that females are known to not play as well, that females cause issues with the male gamers, that they didn't want to take the time to teach their male guldies how to both concentrate on the raid progression AND deal with a female. It wasn't trolling as we know it, these guys were genuine in their belief that girl gamers were not worth their time. And while it may not be happening to you or I, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, nor should we wave it off.


I've seen this kind of crap in specifically two games: WoW (no surprise there) and Rift. I don't even bother with gen chat in WoW, as it is junk. Rift has better chat, yet I've watched some female gamers adding input in chat and being mocked by guys. It happens often enough, that I've actually just stopped helping any players asking for it in chat, because the potential for it to erupt is just not worth my time helping anther player. And frankly, that blows.


We femmes are strong enough to deal with it, and have done so for a long time. We will continue to do so for as long as it takes. But why the **** is it so hard for you guys to just take a moment and put yourself in a female players shoes, and realize that this kind of ****, whether trolling or not, is not cool on any freaking level?! I'm not asking for you to shoulder this alone. All I am asking is that you step up and help a sistah out when it's appropriate
____________________________
Uglysasquatch wrote:
DSD kicked Alma in the *** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

Suburban Rebel Mom Blog
#95 Jun 12 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
******
43,873 posts
DSD wrote:
But when the go to comeback when dealing with a female gamer is about getting back to the kitchen, or that girl gamers suck, it goes from being smack talk to something else.
Would you rather we talk about your ******
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#96 Jun 12 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
14,949 posts
DSD wrote:
But when the go to comeback when dealing with a female gamer is about getting back to the kitchen, or that girl gamers suck, it goes from being smack talk to something else.
When trolls mock guys, they focus on things that would make guys angry. Small ****** *** jokes, etc. When trolls mock women, they focus on things that would make women angry. Don't belong outside the kitchen, go make some sammiches, etc. African Americans, Mexicans, Asians, Women, Men. The trolls choose the stereotype specific to them. Why would it be any different for women being trolled?
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#97 Jun 12 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
DSD wrote:
But when the go to comeback when dealing with a female gamer is about getting back to the kitchen, or that girl gamers suck, it goes from being smack talk to something else.

Effective smack talk? They're saying it to get a rise out of you.
Quote:
But why the @#%^ is it so hard for you guys to just take a moment and put yourself in a female players shoes, and realize that this kind of sh*t, whether trolling or not, is not cool on any freaking level?!

I don't think anyone is defending it, per se. No one is saying that it's "cool". I guess I'm still a little lost as to what my reaction is supposed to be. I could speak up in guild chat when it happens except I don't see it happen in guild chat. A bunch of yahoos post stuff to some feminist Youtube person and I should...?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#98 Jun 12 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
******
43,873 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I guess I'm still a little lost as to what my reaction is supposed to be.
So far from these threads I've gathered that if I treat a woman as a princess, I'm sexist and believe she's inferior in every way, and if I treat her like I treat my guy friends that means I'm sexist and believe she's inferior in every way.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#99 Jun 12 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
lolgaxe wrote:
So far from these threads I've gathered that if I treat a woman as a princess, I'm sexist and believe she's inferior in every way, and if I treat her like I treat my guy friends that means I'm sexist and believe she's inferior in every way.

I don't get that. I don't think DSD is accusing us of being jerks. She's just asking us to act on other people being jerks. But that's the sort of thing that really has to be targeted. It's one thing if I'm in a guild with someone and he acts poorly and I call him out on it. We may have enough of an in game relationship that my words would hold weight. On the other hand, some idiot trying to get a rise in general chat doesn't give a crap about me saying "That's not cool" and really just feeds off it.

The thing is, I never saw much of the former and the only effective solution to the latter is to ignore it and not react. I guess that's why I feel like I'm just shrugging here.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#100 Jun 12 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,044 posts
DSD wrote:
But why the @#%^ is it so hard for you guys to just take a moment and put yourself in a female players shoes, and realize that this kind of sh*t, whether trolling or not, is not cool on any freaking level?! I'm not asking for you to shoulder this alone. All I am asking is that you step up and help a sistah out when it's appropriate
That's treading the line of asking for special treatment. People get trolled all the time.

Most recently the general-chat hate speech I hear most is directed towards Asian gamers. In general chat channels I'll ignore it. If it goes beyond the general chat - into the forums or guilds/groups/alliances I'd speak up when/if I was witness to it or leave the group/guild if it was allowed to continue. I'd do the same for women or anyone that was being harassed and hated on due to bigotry.



Edited, Jun 12th 2013 5:22pm by Elinda
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#101 Jun 12 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
******
43,873 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I don't think DSD is accusing us of being jerks.
Then she's wrong, because we are jerks.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 55 All times are in CDT