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SCOTUS, Hilary and Same *** MarriageFollow

#1 Mar 18 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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Hilary released this video today.....

Campaigning or just speaking out prior to the SCOTUS hearings on the constitutionality of DOMA scheduled for later this month?



She looks tired. Hope she's up for this whole presidential race thing.



Edit - got it!

Edited, Mar 18th 2013 6:40pm by Elinda
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#2 Mar 18 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Too early to play the Who Wants To Be A Figurehead game.
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#3 Mar 18 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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She looks tired. Hope she's up for this whole presidential race thing.

Let's hope so. The baggage she brings to a general election isn't worth the name recognition.
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#4 Mar 18 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
[b]The baggage she brings to a general election isn't worth the name recognition.
Are you talking about Bill?
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#5 Mar 19 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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No, SwissGear.
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#6 Mar 19 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Are you talking about Bill?

Not exclusively, but yes. "I had led the country to massive cuts in social safety nets, lower taxes for the wealthy, signed a law that made *** marriage non portable between states, and took advice from **** Morris very seriously. Obviously I'm a liberal icon."
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#7 Mar 19 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, I thought they were talking about her Vuitton and Imelda Marcos-like shoe collection.
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#8 Mar 26 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Continuing on the idea of the SCotUS and SSM... the court is hearing arguments on Prop 8 today, and DOMA tomorrow. Early reports seem to say that they'll decline to rule on Prop 8, effectively making its overturn from the lower courts binding and once again allowing *** marriage in CA.

Frankly, this is how the entire thing should go: http://www.theonion.com/articles/supreme-court-on-***-marriage-sure-who-cares,31812/

In other news, seemingly most of my facebook friends are changing their profile pictures to red "=" signs. I blame George Takei.
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#9 Mar 26 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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You don't blame Mr. Sulu for anything.
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#10 Mar 26 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Continuing on the idea of the SCotUS and SSM... the court is hearing arguments on Prop 8 today, and DOMA tomorrow. Early reports seem to say that they'll decline to rule on Prop 8, effectively making its overturn from the lower courts binding and once again allowing *** marriage in CA.

Early reports are almost always wrong. There's not really a baby to cut in half here, the Prop 8 thing is mostly the sideshow, if they invalidate DOMA the game's over. There's a real argument there's no standing for the Prop 8 plaintiffs, they might go that way to avoid forcing Alabama to start marrying people, they probably won't uphold DOMA, so the rich Alabamans can still go to Boston or wherever and get married and then return to Alabama and claim full rights.

I'd guess they'll go with a broader validation of SSM, but it's not usually wise to underestimate the cowardice of the conservative wing on human rights issues.
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#11 Mar 26 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I saw that as well.

The DOMA hearing isn't about Prop 8, but about an 86 year old woman who got socked with a $350K inheritance tax bill because while the state of NY recognized her marriage of to her late partner of 40 years, the federal US government did not. And so she sued, in the grand American tradition.

Her argument is that if she had been married to a man, she would have been exempt from the estate tax.

If any argument to the conservatives is going to convince them to strike down DOMA, this would probably be it. It's going to be interesting how it all plays out.
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#12gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 1:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That it will be, regardless of outcome.
#13 Mar 26 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I can never tell if gbaji is serious or just the most committed ******* troll on the internet.
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#14 Mar 26 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Neither. A committed troll isn't so easily noticed.
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#15 Mar 26 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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ITT: Conservatives only think straight people are taxed enough already and deserve more tax breaks.

*** people? TAX THE NANCIES.
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#16gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 2:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Conservatives recognize that if you create a tax break for say buying an electric car, it's because the government wants to encourage people to drive electric cars. We also believe that the government should only do this if there is some overriding socio-economic reason to do so. We don't consider the fact that a gas guzzler doesn't get the same tax break unfair because the whole point of the tax break is to reward people for buying more energy efficient cars.
#17 Mar 26 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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IT'S JUST OBVIOUS!
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#18 Mar 26 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
catwho wrote:
ITT: Conservatives only think straight people are taxed enough already and deserve more tax breaks.


Conservatives recognize that if you create a tax break for say buying an electric car, it's because the government wants to encourage people to drive electric cars. We also believe that the government should only do this if there is some overriding socio-economic reason to do so. We don't consider the fact that a gas guzzler doesn't get the same tax break unfair because the whole point of the tax break is to reward people for buying more energy efficient cars.

We may disagree on whether the reward/incentive should exist, but at least we don't fail to recognize why it exists in the first place and rationally assess why one type of car should get it and not another. Please tell me you can grasp why this applies here.
Because people are just like cars and should be treated as such?
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#19 Mar 26 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is this thread about *** *** not making babies yet?
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#20gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 2:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You'd have a point if we were giving the tax break to the cars.
#21 Mar 26 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Is this thread about *** *** not making babies yet?

No, it's about there not even being the potential for babies. 'Cause, you know, straight couples who don't/can't/won't have kids still totally deserve full marriage benefits, but *** couples raising children don't. Smiley: rolleyes

Back in facebook news, I've seen a few people putting up red ">" signs. While some are posting them with captions like "I stand with God; homosexual marriage is NOT equal; traditional marriage is greater!", it seems like a few are taking the opposite approach: saying SSM is just a step to "greater" acceptance of homosexuals in society.

Oh, facebook. You silly, silly social media platform. Smiley: lol

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 4:30pm by LockeColeMA
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#22 Mar 26 2013 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Time to change my Facebook picture to display a green square root symbol.
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#23 Mar 26 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Time to change my Facebook picture to display a green square root symbol.


... because you're "rooting" for *** marriage, AMIRITE!? Smiley: laugh
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#24gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 2:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's not about deserving. It's about avoiding negative behavior as much as possible. When a member of a *** couple accidentally gets impregnated by the other and the government has to get involved to force the other to take responsibility for the child, I'll be the first in line to demand that we apply marriage status to *** couples. For me, it's not about liking or disliking a given type of couple, but the physical and legal realities of the situation.
#25 Mar 26 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Is this thread about *** *** not making babies yet?

No, it's about there not even being the potential for babies. 'Cause, you know, straight couples who don't/can't/won't have kids still totally deserve full marriage benefits, but *** couples raising children don't.


It's not about deserving. It's about avoiding negative behavior as much as possible.

Negative behavior like discriminating against people for being different than you?

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 5:01pm by cidbahamut
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#26gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 3:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) All laws discriminate. It's important to have a system in which the discrimination is *not* based on liking or not liking a given group of people. If you hold a position on *** marriage because you frame it in terms of being for or against homosexuals, you are encouraging exactly the wrong type of system. Do you really want to have a government that does things that way? Think carefully about your answer.
#27 Mar 26 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji wrote:
All laws discriminate.


Nebraska Law wrote:
It is Illegal to go whale fishing.

Those poor whalers. What will they do if they cannot fish for whales in Nebraska...
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#28 Mar 26 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
catwho wrote:
ITT: Conservatives only think straight people are taxed enough already and deserve more tax breaks.


Conservatives recognize that if you create a tax break for say buying an electric car, it's because the government wants to encourage people to drive electric cars. We also believe that the government should only do this if there is some overriding socio-economic reason to do so. We don't consider the fact that a gas guzzler doesn't get the same tax break unfair because the whole point of the tax break is to reward people for buying more energy efficient cars.

We may disagree on whether the reward/incentive should exist, but at least we don't fail to recognize why it exists in the first place and rationally assess why one type of car should get it and not another. Please tell me you can grasp why this applies here.
So what's the difference between a straight couple and a *** couple that one deserves a tax break and the other doesn't?

And don't you dare say babies, because they get a separate tax break for that.
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#29gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 5:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Exactly. People complaining that *** couples cannot gain marriage benefits is just like people complaining that whalers are not allowed to hunt whales in Nebraska. Excellent analogy!
#30gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 5:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ok. I wont say it then. ****. I will. The separate tax break is for the extra costs related to caring for a dependent. It's neither an encouragement nor discouragement for having dependents in the first place, nor does it address the relationship between the parents either currently, or at time of birth.
#31 Mar 26 2013 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you allow same-*** marriage, then those people would be encouraged to adopt a child, which would then bring about extra expenses necessitating a tax break for caring for a dependent, and at the same time relieves the burden of too many children in "the system."

Win-win-win.
#32gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 5:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) BTW, did I have to explain this, when I already posted this:
#33 Mar 26 2013 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
BTW, did I have to explain this, when I already posted this:

gbaji wrote:
When a member of a *** couple accidentally gets impregnated by the other and the government has to get involved to force the other to take responsibility for the child, I'll be the first in line to demand that we apply marriage status to *** couples.



That's the situation marriage statuses were created to deal with.


Well, that's your opinion. But you also said:

gbaji wrote:
Conservatives recognize that if you create a tax break for say buying an electric car, it's because the government wants to encourage people to drive electric cars. We also believe that the government should only do this if there is some overriding socio-economic reason to do so. We don't consider the fact that a gas guzzler doesn't get the same tax break unfair because the whole point of the tax break is to reward people for buying more energy efficient cars.


The socio-economic reason to allow same-*** marriage is:

I wrote:
If you allow same-*** marriage, then those people would be encouraged to adopt a child, which would then bring about extra expenses necessitating a tax break for caring for a dependent, and at the same time relieves the burden of too many children in "the system."

Win-win-win.
#34gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 6:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes. Then we could move the discussion away from one that's contrived to make one group of people appear to be bigots and into actually ensuring that all the different people in our nation have access to the various legal conditions that they want and need to make their own lives happy and fulfilled. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
#35gbaji, Posted: Mar 26 2013 at 6:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Again though, it's not the marriage status that is required, but a marriage contract. That's already available, but very few (nearly none in fact) *** couples pursue it, preferring to fight a legal battle for something they don't really need or want instead of getting what they want right now. This is where I inject my patented "leaders of a cause care more about the politics of the cause, than the people they claim to be trying to help".
#36 Mar 26 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Clearly, it's not about providing the actual solution to the problem, but making the problem as big as possible and using it for political advantage. So... .grats on being used *** people!

That thought can keep you warm and smug when CA starts allowing (federally recognized) SSMs in the near future Smiley: laugh
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#37 Mar 26 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
preferring to fight a legal battle for something they don't really need or want
Says who?
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#38 Mar 26 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji, if the only thing you care about is *** couples not paying less taxes, why on earth are you making such a big deal out of it?
It's not like that money is particularly significant to the US budget as a whole.



Not that anyone actually believes that that's really the only thing about *** marriage you care about but whatever.
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#39 Mar 26 2013 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Gbaji is against it because the GOP is against it. He goes along with whatever they tell him to.
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#40 Mar 26 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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By the way, Gbaji, i've been wondering something.

Why do we give tax breaks to infertile couples when they get married?
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#41 Mar 26 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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If we really want to get into it, "traditional" marriage was far more about the acquisition of property than it was actual procreation. Children were too considered a property.

In a traditional Western marriage (as in, from the last 500 years or so), a marriage granted:
- Rights of the husband to the wife's property
- Right of the husband to the wife's children (also considered property)
- Rights of the wife to have her children someday inherit her husband's property, upon his death
- Rights of the wife to some of her husband's property on his death should the marriage be fruitless

The reality, especially among the upper classes, was that not all the kids a wife had really were her husband's, but by the property laws, he was obligated to treat them as such unless he had rock solid proof of her infidelity. In exchange, he could pretty much do whatever the **** he wanted with the kids. Abandon her and take them to another country? Sure, why not. Beat them senseless? Short of homicide, it was allowed. Legally, the wife had no say in what he did with them, or with her, so long as he didn't kill them or violate laws.

The very fact that we no longer view any children born of a marriage as the husband's property to do with what he will (nor the wife for that matter) means we've already changed the view of "traditional" marriage radically in the last hundred years.
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#42 Mar 26 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rachel9 wrote:
By the way, Gbaji, i've been wondering something.

Why do we give tax breaks to infertile couples when they get married?

We've been over this before. His answer boils down to "It would be too difficult and costly to determine fertility, so it's easiest just to give benefits to men married to women." As opposed to giving benefits to those WITH children.
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#43 Mar 26 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Clearly, it's not about providing the actual solution to the problem, but making the problem as big as possible and using it for political advantage.

Working GREAT, too. It's almost certainly the primary reason Romney lost the youth vote by such a massive margin. Don't worry, the next old white guy you guys offer up will be very quiet about this "personal" issue that government doesn't need to get involved in.
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#44 Mar 26 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
By the way, Gbaji, i've been wondering something.

Why do we give tax breaks to infertile couples when they get married?

We've been over this before. His answer boils down to "It would be too difficult and costly to determine fertility, so it's easiest just to give benefits to men married to women." As opposed to giving benefits to those WITH children.
Hm, that makes sense.

But what about when it has already been established that one or both are infertile? Surely the cost of putting a mark into a file noting not to give them such benefits would not outweigh the extra taxes they would be paying?
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#45 Mar 26 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Belkira wrote:
If you allow same-*** marriage, then those people would be encouraged to adopt a child, which would then bring about extra expenses necessitating a tax break for caring for a dependent, and at the same time relieves the burden of too many children in "the system."


I have an issue with the phrase "allow same-*** marriage" though. My issue (and the issue of most people) isn't with "marriage", but with the legal status (also unfortunately called "marriage"). It's the suite of benefits and effects that are at issue. I have no issue with creation of a peer-to-peer marriage contract that includes any *** combination anyone wants. I have no issue with adoption agencies accepting such things, just as they accept the current marriage status. I just think we're getting hung up on labels at this point.

There's no need to apply the state created status to this though. What I'd really like to see is a separation of marriage contracts from the state benefits applied to opposite *** couples who enter into one. The former is something which anyone ought to be able to enter into. The latter only makes sense if the marriage exists between a man and woman.


So you basically want to completely change the current structure of marital unions in order to justify keeping same-*** couples from calling themselves married in the eyes of the government.

Wow.
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Rachel9 wrote:
Hm, that makes sense.


No... trust me, it doesn't Smiley: lol

Quote:
But what about when it has already been established that one or both are infertile? Surely the cost of putting a mark into a file noting not to give them such benefits would not outweigh the extra taxes they would be paying?

Nope, doesn't matter to him.
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#47 Mar 26 2013 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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The latter only makes sense if the marriage exists between a man and woman.

Just so we're clear, it's really only this part everyone things is laughable ******** used to mask your latent homophobia. The other stuff is just filler.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#48 Mar 26 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Hm, that makes sense.


No... trust me, it doesn't Smiley: lol
I was just going along with it so i could bring up my next point, of course.

Quote:
Quote:
But what about when it has already been established that one or both are infertile? Surely the cost of putting a mark into a file noting not to give them such benefits would not outweigh the extra taxes they would be paying?

Nope, doesn't matter to him.
Oh, so it isn't really about cost?
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#49 Mar 26 2013 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
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It's about not saying that gays are icky.
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#50 Mar 27 2013 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see our marriage laws simply written to allow two people who want to partner eternally to marry - even sibs if they want. Lose the labels.

Also, would it be wondrous or regretful if gbaji no longer had resort to gross entanglement of logical thought to argue against ssm on the internets?
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#51 Mar 27 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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Deja vu all over again.
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