Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

War and Peace theory of shopping.Follow

#1 Mar 13 2013 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,923 posts
While War and Peace is a fictional novel, it posits a factual theory that can be examined on practical, sociological, political, mathematical and philosophical levels. I don't want to scare readers with a wall of text, so I'm just going to jump to its conclusion, and presume the conclusion is true, because It made sense as it was written, and I've read articles elsewhere that back it up. We can argue about it's actual truth later. The theory states that the actions that a single soldier do, heavily affect the outcome of a battle, therefore affect a war, and thus can affect the outcome of history. The actions of the single soldier heavily affect the battle because the battle is an aggregate of single actions. The soldier affects the outcome both in and of his own actions alone, and because of the knock-on effect his actions have on his peers around him. The single soldiers actions can even take an in-theory overwhelmingly advantaged side in a battle, and lose it for the Should-Have-Won side, or win it for the Should-Have-Lost side.

This theory obviously transfers into citizen voting actions, and into consumer power to move the marketplace. it is only a sense of disempowerment that leads individuals to not take advantage of the true leverage that they have to affect outcomes.

This is why I take some time to heavily scrutinise new things I'm purchasing (not repeat purchases) for their balance of environmental, health and ethical qualities like slave labour and "fair trade" qualities. I'm buying a better world, one purchase at a time. And I'm prepared to pay extra for it. Even when I was a severely impoverished student and single disabled pensioner, I was prepared to pay extra to buy the world I want in the future.
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#2 Mar 13 2013 at 12:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
******
29,905 posts
For the record I hated that book.
____________________________
Arch Duke Kaolian Drachensborn, lvl 95 Ranger, Unrest Server
Tech support forum | FAQ (Support) | Mobile Zam: http://m.zam.com (Premium only)
Forum Rules
#3 Mar 13 2013 at 12:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
******
27,658 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
The theory states that the actions that a single soldier do, heavily affect the outcome of a battle, therefore affect a war, and thus can affect the outcome of history. The actions of the single soldier heavily affect the battle because the battle is an aggregate of single actions.
Personally, I would have gone with Mulan instead of War and Peace, but that's probably only because I still break out into renditions of "I'll Make a Man Out of You" on a regular basis.
Quote:
A single grain of rice can tip the scale. One man may be the difference between victory and defeat.
____________________________
Someone on another forum wrote:
Wow, you've got an awesome writing style.! I really dig the narrator's back story, humor, sarcasm, and the plethora of pop culture references. Altogether a refreshingly different RotR journal (not that I don't like the more traditional ones, mind you).

#4 Mar 13 2013 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,923 posts
Good quote. It was sadly underverbose for my style.
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#5 Mar 13 2013 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
29,436 posts
For the record I hated that book.

It's not a great book, even Tolstoy wasn't that fond of it.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#6 Mar 13 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
Avatar
******
20,470 posts
This is also why boycotts can be effective. Enough people have to dogpile on to send the message, but you need to be one of those "enough" people if you want to have any hope of your message getting accross.

This is why our usual Tuesday night Papa John's pizza night turned into "frozen pizza night" instead. We haven't really missed it.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#7 Mar 13 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
29,436 posts
This is why our usual Tuesday night Papa John's pizza night turned into "frozen pizza night" instead. We haven't really missed it.

It's a franchise. You stopped some random dude from making money because the guy he paid to use a name is an *******. Maybe that was your goal, to punish someone else for associating with someone who later said something you disliked, but it don't think I'd really qualify it as "effective".
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#8 Mar 13 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
******
44,019 posts
Maybe they were boycotting terrible franchise pizza.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#9 Mar 13 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
27,658 posts
Wait. What did Papa John's do to deserve a boycott?
____________________________
Someone on another forum wrote:
Wow, you've got an awesome writing style.! I really dig the narrator's back story, humor, sarcasm, and the plethora of pop culture references. Altogether a refreshingly different RotR journal (not that I don't like the more traditional ones, mind you).

#10 Mar 13 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
11,304 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Wait. What did Papa John's do to deserve a boycott?


Well it wasn't the any Large 5-topping or specialty pizza for $11 deal.
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#11 Mar 13 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Wait. What did Papa John's do to deserve a boycott?


Weren't they one of the companies that caught a lot of flak for switching everyone to 39 hour work weeks so they woudn't have to give them medical insurance?
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#12 Mar 13 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Papa John's had 3,179 US locations, 646 of which are corporate owned. So, all things being equal, you'd have a 20% chance of your local Papa John's being "directly" owned by John Schnatter (as CEO of Papa John's).

I have no clue, or interest in researching, what level of control the corporate level has over its franchisees in terms of health benefits, etc.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#13 Mar 13 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
******
44,019 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Wait. What did Papa John's do to deserve a boycott?
Bad tasting pizza isn't reason enough?
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#14 Mar 13 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,078 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
While War and Peace is a fictional novel, it posits a factual theory that can be examined on practical, sociological, political, mathematical and philosophical levels. I don't want to scare readers with a wall of text, so I'm just going to jump to its conclusion, and presume the conclusion is true, because It made sense as it was written, and I've read articles elsewhere that back it up. We can argue about it's actual truth later. The theory states that the actions that a single soldier do, heavily affect the outcome of a battle, therefore affect a war, and thus can affect the outcome of history. The actions of the single soldier heavily affect the battle because the battle is an aggregate of single actions. The soldier affects the outcome both in and of his own actions alone, and because of the knock-on effect his actions have on his peers around him. The single soldiers actions can even take an in-theory overwhelmingly advantaged side in a battle, and lose it for the Should-Have-Won side, or win it for the Should-Have-Lost side.
SPOILER ALERT.

Seriously, I'm going to finish reading War and Peace someday...maybe. I think I've made 5 attempts now. I even loaded up an e-copy on my Nook.
Quote:
This is why I take some time to heavily scrutinise new things I'm purchasing (not repeat purchases) for their balance of environmental, health and ethical qualities like slave labour and "fair trade" qualities. I'm buying a better world, one purchase at a time. And I'm prepared to pay extra for it. Even when I was a severely impoverished student and single disabled pensioner, I was prepared to pay extra to buy the world I want in the future.
Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Sometimes there just isn't opportunity to research where all the parts or ingredients originated. I think I've mentioned my boycott list before here. It's not really boycott, just places I avoid spending my money for one reason or another.

The first company to ever make my list was Duncan Donuts. Once my world was full of flittery butterflies, Cowsill songs played in the background and there was a little mom and pop bakery on every corner. Then Dunkin Donuts came to town. Smiley: oyvey

Next came Old Navy. My kids loved old navy clothes, I found them to be cheaply made, also they exploited kid-workers in other countries (or so I heard). I think it was their business model that ****** me off so much. They pushed quantities of clothes. Almost to the point were you'd consider them as disposable items. Anyways, I've not spent a dime on an Old Navy shirt, skirt, hoodie or beach towel in a decade.

Bed Bath and Beyond made my list based on my daughter's description of the slave labor she endured as an employee for about 8 years. Also their stores are just facades. All those towels so neatly folded in all those pretty colors stacked up on the high shelves just out of reach - it's a lie. They're just foam molds covered with a towel.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#15 Mar 13 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
******
29,905 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
For the record I hated that book.

It's not a great book, even Tolstoy wasn't that fond of it.


I think it needed more characters and side stories. That and I dropped the damned thing on my foot once and it really hurt.
____________________________
Arch Duke Kaolian Drachensborn, lvl 95 Ranger, Unrest Server
Tech support forum | FAQ (Support) | Mobile Zam: http://m.zam.com (Premium only)
Forum Rules
#16 Mar 13 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Elinda wrote:
All those towels so neatly folded in all those pretty colors stacked up on the high shelves just out of reach - it's a lie. They're just foam molds covered with a towel.

Unless I need to buy 200 cranberry bath towels at once, I can't imagine why this should bother me.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Mar 13 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
******
44,019 posts
Why would Elinda's sudden need for 200 cranberry bath towels bother you?

Yes, I completely misread it.

Edited, Mar 13th 2013 2:57pm by lolgaxe
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#18 Mar 13 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
27,658 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Wait. What did Papa John's do to deserve a boycott?
Bad tasting pizza isn't reason enough?

I don't think it's really a boycott if you're just not buying products you don't like.
____________________________
Someone on another forum wrote:
Wow, you've got an awesome writing style.! I really dig the narrator's back story, humor, sarcasm, and the plethora of pop culture references. Altogether a refreshingly different RotR journal (not that I don't like the more traditional ones, mind you).

#19 Mar 13 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
******
44,019 posts
It could be argued that not buying products you don't like is a basic form of boycotting, and we could probably turn it into how unconstitutionally racist feminism it is by next Tuesday.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#20 Mar 13 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
Avatar
******
20,470 posts
The one we purchased from is indeed a corporate owned store and not a franchise, if the little tag by their door is any indication.

The boycott was because John Schnatter whined that he'd have to raise prices 15 cents a pizza because of Obamacare. A few days later he gave away two million pizzas for the NFL.

Huh, Know Your Meme actually has info on it.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#21gbaji, Posted: Mar 13 2013 at 2:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So let me get this straight. Obama (well, really the interests who actually wrote the thing) proposes a bill which will require businesses to pay more for health care for their employees based on various criteria, one of which is hours worked. Conservatives say this is a bad idea because it'll either mean that the businesses will have to charge more for their goods to pay the extra cost *or* adjust their workers hours to avoid providing the extra pay. The bill gets passed anyway, and now that businesses are responding exactly as they have to instead of it being Obama's fault, it's theirs?
#22 Mar 13 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
******
44,019 posts
gbaji wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Always start speeches with a joke.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#23 Mar 13 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,900 posts
People that vote to raise their taxes probably aren't going to be bothered by paying 25 cents more for a pizza.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#24 Mar 13 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
It doesn't matter who wants to whine about whose "fault" it is, if someone prefers to patronize a business that offers health care to its employees over one that doesn't, the system is working as intended. You should be applauding this, Gbaji.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#25 Mar 13 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
29,436 posts
So let

Dad? Attica!
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#26 Mar 13 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
Avatar
******
20,470 posts
I would have paid an extra dollar per pizza if I knew for a fact that the person preparing it could take a sick day and go see a doctor if they had the flu.

The ironic thing is that cutting employee hours as a knee jerk temper tantrum that didn't have an effect under the law, since the total employee hours added up and then divided by forty is what determines the 50-person cut off. So if a regional franchise has twenty full timers and more than forty people working thirty hours a week, they're still at the cut off point for requiring health care, and they have the un-benefit of a broke and/or overworked workforce (since people working under forty hours will often work multiple jobs.)

Olive Garden was the other one who tried cutting worker hours down to under 30 to avoid having to provide healthcare, and the stores that tried it discovered within a month that it didn't work. It cost more to manage more part timers than it did to manage less full timers, even when health care was taken into account, for various reasons. Extra payroll taxes, having to deal with the part timers calling out more frequently, and being more tired and less productive, etc.

Papa John's doesn't make the best pizza, but when they offered 100% whole wheat crusts, they made the healthiest fast food stuff.

These days if we want restaurant pizza, we get Your Pie instead. Smiley: drool Way better pizza, and we're supporting a local business.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#27 Mar 13 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
.[Chicago pizza superiority (so Papas Johns can go pound sand anyway) remark goes here]
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#28 Mar 13 2013 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,064 posts
This isn't exactly a new concept. See: Charles Tiebout (no, not the netminder)
____________________________
Almalieque wrote:
I'm biased against statistics

#29 Mar 13 2013 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
28,269 posts
I suppose it beats the Anna Karenina theory of shopping, yeah? You know, where you have buyer's remorse and throw yourself under a train.

____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#30 Mar 13 2013 at 7:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Happy customers are all alike; every unhappy customer is unhappy in their own way.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#31 Mar 13 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
Jophiel wrote:
It doesn't matter who wants to whine about whose "fault" it is, if someone prefers to patronize a business that offers health care to its employees over one that doesn't, the system is working as intended. You should be applauding this, Gbaji.


Um... Except that they had that choice *before* Ombamacare was passed. There was nothing preventing people from boycotting Papa John's (or any of dozens of other chain restaurants) that did not provide health benefits to their employees if that was something they were really upset about. Yet, they weren't. So is it really about those companies not providing health benefits? Or is it about them cutting their employees hours in order to comply with the new rules in Obamacare while still providing the exact same benefits they were before the law was passed?


I'll give you a hint: It's not really about the health coverage.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#32 Mar 13 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
Um... Except that they had that choice *before* Ombamacare was passed.

So? Schnatter helped bring it into the public view and people are reacting accordingly as they wish.

As I said, you should be pleased as punch over it. This is what capitalism is all about right? I can't believe that you're seriously crying about a basic tenet of the capitalist system.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#33 Mar 13 2013 at 8:43 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... Except that they had that choice *before* Ombamacare was passed.

So? Schnatter helped bring it into the public view and people are reacting accordingly as they wish.


Bring what into view? That Papa John's doesn't offer health benefits to their near minimum wage part time mostly student employees, just like pretty much every other fast food restaurant, or chain store, or mall store, or grocery store, convenience store, bagel shop, etc. Or that the CEO of Papa John's made a point of highlighting how Obamacare is going to hurt the employees working in those kinds of jobs. If the problem is people getting their hours cut because of this, then blame Obamacare because it's why that's happening. You can't blame the businesses for responding exactly according to how anyone with a basic understanding of business said they'd respond. Blame the idiots who passed the law knowing that this would happen.

Quote:
As I said, you should be pleased as punch over it. This is what capitalism is all about right? I can't believe that you're seriously crying about a basic tenet of the capitalist system.


No. It's not what capitalism is about. Capitalism would be where the government doesn't create mandates like Obamacare, and thus Papa John's is free to chose to provide or not provide health care based on the market forces involved. And they're also free to give their employees hours based on the market forces as well. And they can pay them based on the market forces. And they can charge for their goods and services based on market forces.

Do you see how the absence of protest prior to Obamacare shows that it's not the free market choice of not paying his low skill low salary workers health benefits that people got upset at. Thus, the protests aren't the result of capitalism. They are the result of socialism. The government intentionally injected itself into industry to force a choice that would not exist under capitalism: Either pay health benefits *or* reduce the number of full time employees you employ. It's the result of that choice that is upsetting people (because they're making the obvious one). So don't blame capitalism. Blame Obama. Prior to the passage of that law, a part time employee at Papa John's could get 40 hours a week if he wanted. Now he can't (or it's far less likely that he will). ****. He likely can't even get 30 hours a week now (not sure where the cutoff is). So he's taking home less pay as a direct consequence of Obamacare.

That's not capitalism. It's socialism.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#34 Mar 13 2013 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
Bring what into view?

Working conditions that may affect people's buying decisions. No different than deciding not to buy a certain brand of shoes when you learn they're sewn by legless orphans. But I suppose if I buy shoes on Monday and learn this on Tuesday, I'm not allowed to decide on Wednesday not to buy from them any more. I mean, I could have known Monday so now I'm never ever allowed to make an informed decision!

Quote:
No. It's not what capitalism is about.

It's absolutely what capitalism is about. People making purchasing decisions and voting with their dollars.

I suppose crying big crocodile tears and protecting your political allies so they can make big piles of cash without answering to anyone is also what capitalism is about as you're so deftly demonstrating here.

Quote:
So don't blame capitalism

I'm not. I'm applauding people making informed decisions on who to buy pizza from. The only one throwing a hissy fit about people making informed decisions is you.

Edited, Mar 13th 2013 9:52pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#35 Mar 13 2013 at 9:02 PM Rating: Excellent
****
7,811 posts
Just a side not, having worked at Papa Johns, part-time over the years, the only associates that currently receive benefits are the full-time management staff. The part-timers, from managers, all the way down to drivers do not receive benefits. I'll also mention that since employees share the cost of their health premiums, the ACA will impact their own pay as well, not just what it costs the employer.
____________________________
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. ~River Tam

Sedao
#36 Mar 14 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
******
44,019 posts
Jophiel wrote:
The only one throwing a hissy fit about people making informed decisions is you.
No, it's an informed decision when it benefits Republicans. It's coercion when it benefits Democrats.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#37 Mar 14 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,900 posts
Jophiel wrote:
It's absolutely what capitalism is about. People making purchasing decisions and voting with their dollars.

You're only allowed to buy more of a product, not less, and that product has to be fried chicken.


____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#38 Mar 14 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
gbaji wrote:
So let me get this straight. Obama (well, really the interests who actually wrote the thing) proposes a bill which will require businesses to pay more for health care for their employees based on various criteria, one of which is hours worked. Conservatives say this is a bad idea because it'll either mean that the businesses will have to charge more for their goods to pay the extra cost *or* adjust their workers hours to avoid providing the extra pay. The bill gets passed anyway, and now that businesses are responding exactly as they have to instead of it being Obama's fault, it's theirs?

My understanding is that if the employers weren't a bunch of worthless @#%^s they wouldn't be incurring additional costs since they'd already be providing healthcare benefits for their employees.

I also don't buy the whole sob story about how they have to increase prices and sh*t. There's always the option of just going "you know what, we'll just eat that cost because we're still making boatloads of profit and it's the right thing to do". Profit margins becoming slightly less gargantuan is not the same thing as losing money.

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 1:47pm by cidbahamut
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#39 Mar 14 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Bring what into view?

Working conditions that may affect people's buying decisions.


But it's not the lack of health benefits that is the issue. Tons of businesses with similar structures to Papa Johns don't provide health benefits. The point of contention is that Papa John's is choosing to reduce their workers hours in order to avoid being required by Obamacare to provide employees who never received health benefits before with health benefits. It's the choice to reduce hours to avoid the mandate that is the issue.

The point being if Obamacare were not passed, Papa John's would not be reducing their part time workers hours. So the blame likes in the change in the law, not with Papa John's.

Quote:
No different than deciding not to buy a certain brand of shoes when you learn they're sewn by legless orphans. But I suppose if I buy shoes on Monday and learn this on Tuesday, I'm not allowed to decide on Wednesday not to buy from them any more. I mean, I could have known Monday so now I'm never ever allowed to make an informed decision!


Ok. You'll get no argument from me over the reality that people only get outraged over things when someone with a loud enough microphone tells them to get outraged. But that does not change the fact that the selectivity in this case is motivated, not by the absence of health care by Papa John's. but the response of the company to a law that is the darling of the left and should not be questioned or criticized. Do you know how many companies have tons of part time workers and don't provide them with health benefits? Do you know how many are shuffling their employee hours around in order to avoid the mandates in Obamacare? Want to know why Papa John's is being singled out? Not because they're doing this, but because they committed the cardinal sin of actually saying "We're being forced to do this bad thing by Obamcare".

I don't know anyone boycotting Papa John's who isn't a fan of Obamacare. Not health benefits. But the law itself. That's the problem with this. It's so obviously not about the benefits, but about circling the wagons around the law, and by extension, the president. Is a boycott at its most basic a capitalist behavior? Absolutely. But the motivation for this isn't about consumers not liking the product or business practices in question, or they'd be boycotting about 80 percent of the retail/restaurant industry. The motivation is protection of what absolutely is a socialist policy.


So while we could suggest that the individual *might* be employing a tool of capitalism in the form of a boycott, the motivation for doing so is socialist. The reason for targeting that company is about making other companies afraid to speak out against the law. This is about intimidation. Nothing more.

Quote:
Quote:
No. It's not what capitalism is about.

It's absolutely what capitalism is about. People making purchasing decisions and voting with their dollars.


When those decisions have to do with market choices, yes. But that's not really the case here.

Quote:
Quote:
So don't blame capitalism

I'm not. I'm applauding people making informed decisions on who to buy pizza from.


They're not making "informed decisions" though. They're making a decision based on incredibly skewed and biased information. They're being told "boycott this company because of X", while magically not being told to boycott the 500 other companies also doing X. So they're not really doing it because of X, but because of some other reason. And that reason goes to why those calling for the boycott did so. And that's absolutely not about benefits or hours or wages. It's because Papa John's was one of the few companies that has actually publicly criticized Obamacare.

Lying to people about what's going on is not really informing them, and people making decisions based on that are not making "informed decisions". They're being used as ideological tools.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#40 Mar 14 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
******
44,019 posts
Called it.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#41 Mar 14 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
cidbahamut wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So let me get this straight. Obama (well, really the interests who actually wrote the thing) proposes a bill which will require businesses to pay more for health care for their employees based on various criteria, one of which is hours worked. Conservatives say this is a bad idea because it'll either mean that the businesses will have to charge more for their goods to pay the extra cost *or* adjust their workers hours to avoid providing the extra pay. The bill gets passed anyway, and now that businesses are responding exactly as they have to instead of it being Obama's fault, it's theirs?

My understanding is that if the employers weren't a bunch of worthless @#%^s they wouldn't be incurring additional costs since they'd already be providing healthcare benefits for their employees.


Them and every other chain store businesses which doesn't give benefits to part time workers (which is nearly all of them). So why single out Papa John's? Seriously. Think about that.

Quote:
I also don't buy the whole sob story about how they have to increase prices and sh*t. There's always the option of just going "you know what, we'll just eat that cost because we're still making boatloads of profit and it's the right thing to do". Profit margins becoming slightly less gargantuan is not the same thing as losing money.


Er? Yes. It's exactly the same thing. WTF?

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 11:28am by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#42 Mar 14 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Called it.


Well duh! Everyone knows that Republican's inform and Democrats coerce. Sheesh.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#43 Mar 14 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
they committed the cardinal sin of actually saying "We're being forced to do this bad thing by Obamcare".

So the CEO incompetently marketed his company and that somehow invalidates the principles of capitalism. Interesting theory.
Quote:
They're not making "informed decisions" though. They're making a decision based on incredibly skewed and biased information.

Hahahah... so now it's up to you to decide when people are making informed enough decisions and when their purchase decisions count as capitalism? Smiley: laugh

Look, there's no mystery here: Schnatter is buds with your failed presidential candidate and so now you need to tortuously try to turn consumer decisions into "not-capitalism" because God forbid you admit that the system isn't working the way you'd like on an emotional level. So it goes and all but one day you might want to wake up.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#44 Mar 14 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
******
44,019 posts
gbaji wrote:
Them and every other chain store businesses which doesn't give benefits to part time workers (which is nearly all of them). So why single out Papa John's?
Every other chain store businesses which don't give benefits to their part time workers (which is nearly all of them) also don't go out of their way to advertise nationally how they give away millions of their products for free every year. Actually kind of hilarious that someone whose business model revolves around throwing money away is complaining about higher overhead costs.

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 2:41pm by lolgaxe
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#45 Mar 14 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
gbaji wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:

I also don't buy the whole sob story about how they have to increase prices and sh*t. There's always the option of just going "you know what, we'll just eat that cost because we're still making boatloads of profit and it's the right thing to do". Profit margins becoming slightly less gargantuan is not the same thing as losing money.


Er? Yes. It's exactly the same thing. WTF?


Let's try an experiment here.

If I start the day with $10 and by the end of the day I have $20, have I lost money or gained money?
Answergained money

If I start the day with $10 and by the end of the day I have $5, have I lost money or gained money?
Answer:lost money

If I start the day with $10 and by the end of the day I have $15, have I lost money or gained money?
Answer:gained money

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 3:29pm by cidbahamut
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#46 Mar 14 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
12,005 posts
I'm glad Gbaji has an inane rant in a War & Peace thread.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#47 Mar 14 2013 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Them and every other chain store businesses which doesn't give benefits to part time workers (which is nearly all of them). So why single out Papa John's?
Every other chain store businesses which don't give benefits to their part time workers (which is nearly all of them) also don't go out of their way to advertise nationally how they give away millions of their products for free every year.


Every other one? No. But Papa John's is not the only one. Do the kids working the Fryolater or grill at McDonalds get health benefits? They spend probably a **** of a lot more money on various charitable things though, don't they? Point being that tons of chain style businesses are facing this dilemma, and many of them are choosing the same path as Papa John's. How about Wendy's? AppleBees? Red Lobster? Taco Bell? That's just a short list that came up on a quick google search. And those are the ones that there's been some public discussion over because of this issue. Papa John's just made a more public deal of blaming Obamacare for this.

Quote:
Actually kind of hilarious that someone whose business model revolves around throwing money away is complaining about higher overhead costs.


Charity is "throwing money away"? Perhaps the complaint is that the business should get to decide how to give its money away, not the government. Cause you know: freedom!

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 7:06pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#48 Mar 14 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
I'm glad Gbaji has an inane rant in a War & Peace thread.


There's some serious universe balancing force at work, I'm sure.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#49 Mar 14 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,767 posts
cidbahamut wrote:
gbaji wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:

I also don't buy the whole sob story about how they have to increase prices and sh*t. There's always the option of just going "you know what, we'll just eat that cost because we're still making boatloads of profit and it's the right thing to do". Profit margins becoming slightly less gargantuan is not the same thing as losing money.


Er? Yes. It's exactly the same thing. WTF?


Let's try an experiment here.

If I start the day with $10 and by the end of the day I have $20, have I lost money or gained money?
Answergained money

If I start the day with $10 and by the end of the day I have $5, have I lost money or gained money?
Answer:lost money

If I start the day with $10 and by the end of the day I have $15, have I lost money or gained money?
Answer:gained money


Um... It costs me $10 per hour to employ someone, and now it costs me $15 per hour. As a result, my yearly profits are $5M lower this year than last year. Have I gained or lost money?

Answer:lost money

See how that works? By your logic, no one's who's employed can ever lose money as long as they're losing it slower than they gain it. So if I get paid $20/hour, and I drop $10 every hour on the ground and it's eaten by a grue, I didn't really lose that $10, cause I'm still $10 ahead at the end of the hour, right? Lol!
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#50 Mar 14 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
******
44,019 posts
gbaji wrote:
Charity is "throwing money away"?
I can see how the Ronald House and the Super Bowl Coin Toss Free Pizza deal would seem similar to you. Smiley: laugh
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#51 Mar 14 2013 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
***
2,201 posts
WTF did I just read... Gbaji you need your head examined.

Seriously a profit is a profit, you cant say I made less money this year then last year therefore I lost money.

Yes the worker is still making a 'profit' every hour hes 20 dollars richer, if he stupidly 'invests' or loses that 10 of money, or some random money eating bug or some weird **** shows up and he decides to feed it, that's his fault. But by the end of the day hes still 10 dollars per hour richer then he was before coming into work.

As for your I made less money this year, then last year, therefore unprofitable. Umm not If you make more then it costs to produce you are still making a profit. Just less of a profit then previous years.

____________________________
What I Play
Recently Played
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 42 All times are in CDT
Almalieque, tribalfusion009, Uglysasquatch, Anonymous Guests (39)