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#152 Mar 11 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
When they have a baby changing table... you do that?
Whether it is there or not, the trash is still usually on the other end of the bathroom.
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#153 Mar 11 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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What someone's birth certificate says, or what their genitals look like (both of which can be changed by the way) doesn't really matter here. We don't assign bathrooms based on who has a penis, and who has a vagina.


Except, that's exactly what we did. The ladies' room is for humans who have vaginas and the (assumed) reproductive parts to go with it, and the gentlemens' room is for humans who have penises and the (assumed) reproductive parts to go with that. No one made that decision based on some imagined hate for a 6 year old transgender kid a couple thousand years into the future.

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Which still boils down to every other woman is allowed in the women's bathroom except those who someone doesn't like.


Or, those women who have penises\testicles\etc. Again, it's really not about hate. It's about physical anatomy and having some sort of real standards so we aren't opening up exploitation for every Joe who decides to say he's now Jane just so he can get into a girl's bathroom without being questioned. We have a right to be safe too, you know.

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No, you're just being a bigot. If you wish to refer to someone's legally recognized gender, then say that. Calling girls "boys" is just hateful.


It's hateful if someone is really going through the process of changing their gender. Then you are just taking a shot at someone who is already going through a super tough time of being put in the wrong body in the first place. But that doesn't mean that we should just sit here and say, "ok, since we don't want to hurt the feelings of the small percentage of real transgendered people by asking them to use the restroom assigned to their current physical anatomy or a private restroom, men are now allowed to use the ladies' room if they say they are women." I mean, how stupid is that?

.....

So what is the answer? Personally I think the school had the right of it. The 6 year old clearly has some things she is going to need to work out, but while she is doing that - using the nurses' private bathroom is probably the best way to handle it. For the rest of us, I do think that adding a private restroom to public locations, or just converting them all to private restrooms is the best answer. It will be safer for everyone involved. Women don't have to look over their shoulders and wonder if that person really is a transgender or is in there to rape her because no one thought twice about him entering, transgenders don't even have to answer a question - they just do their business, and everyone wins.
#154 Mar 11 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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There's usually a little more to being a christian, or democrat than just saying you are.

No true Scotsman believes that.

Sure, there are plenty of people who think they may be trans, but aren't sure. Some of them eventually determine that they are not.

Great, so all the stuff about "it's as unchangeable as the sky being blue" is **** and you wasted our time? Moderating your position on the fly to fit an individual response is banal. Decide. It's not that challenging. Either gender identity is set in stone like magic, or it isn't. If it is "for some people", but it's literally impossible to determine who, that's useless and equates to "it isn't"



Who said it was? There is a middle ground between something being genetic and unchangeable, like skin color, and being a choice that can be changed at any time for any reason, like what you want to eat for dinner. Some things can be influenced by someone's environment, or choices, but still not be a simple choice for them to make at any time. This is one of those.

Great, then stop all of the absolutist ****

Well, either that, or i've just gotten really sick of being called a man, and came up with it on my own.

Not at all mutually exclusive, are they?
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#155 Mar 11 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
There's usually a little more to being a christian, or democrat than just saying you are.

No true Scotsman believes that.

Sure, there are plenty of people who think they may be trans, but aren't sure. Some of them eventually determine that they are not.

Great, so all the stuff about "it's as unchangeable as the sky being blue" is bullsh*t and you wasted our time? Moderating your position on the fly to fit an individual response is banal. Decide. It's not that challenging. Either gender identity is set in stone like magic, or it isn't. If it is "for some people", but it's literally impossible to determine who, that's useless and equates to "it isn't"

So if you can't prove it because your attacker didn't leave any marks on your body, it wasn't rape?
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#156 Mar 11 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
For the rest of us, I do think that adding a private restroom to public locations, or just converting them all to private restrooms is the best answer.

It's an expensive answer for something that is almost never an issue.
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#157 Mar 11 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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So if you can't prove it because your attacker didn't leave any marks on your body, it wasn't rape?


No, and having a mark on your body doesn't prove it was rape. See what a poor metaphor this is, yet?
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#158 Mar 11 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Torrence wrote:
For the rest of us, I do think that adding a private restroom to public locations, or just converting them all to private restrooms is the best answer.

It's an expensive answer for something that is almost never an issue.


Except that it apparantly is an issue. There's a whole national debate on whether a six year old male in a dress should get to use the girls room or have to use the boys room (or a private restroom, as the school suggested).

I got ripped apart on fakebook for having the opinion that the kid should just use the nurses' bathroom - I was a hater, insensitive to LGBT issues, yada yada yada. Did I deserve that abuse? **** no, but it didn't stop those supposedly "tolerant" people from telling me that I was the worst scum on the earth. If a **** private bathroom will shut that kind of **** up, that's where my vote goes.
#159 Mar 11 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
There's a whole national debate
You're giving it too much weight.
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#160 Mar 11 2013 at 11:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almost never an issue? With fossil fuel originated Endocrine Disrupters around everywhere now, Intersex births are now 1 in 1000 in Britain, up from 1 in 100,000 in the 1950s. If America has the same ratios, that's what, about 300,000 intersex people you'll have there in the future. Trying to choose the gender of an intersex baby and giving them genital surgery soon after birth has lead to a lot of disasters. It's now policy to leave the genitals of intersex babies alone, and see what the child "feels like" when they get older. Once they hit late puberty, the child usually feels strongly one way or another about its gender and has the appropriate surgery then.
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#161 Mar 11 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's an expensive answer for something that is almost never an issue.


For YOU. In the way **** marriage is almost never an issue for Gbaji. It's an extremely important issue for a lot of people, a basic one that can't be avoided. I don't really know what "family" restroom are for. There are times when Hannah was younger and it was just me and her where she wasn't really old enough to use a women's room alone (without spending an hour playing with motion sensitive sinks at least) and obviously a 4 year old girl can see and hear things in a men's room that you might want to avoid (maybe a women's room too, I wouldn't really know). That seems like a small use case, but they're fairly common. Why isn't that "expensive"?

Nexa spent a long time winning the fight to have a non gendered bathroom at UMaine when she was there, she could assure you with more knowledge than I could how important and significant that is to more people than you'd likely expect.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 1:22pm by Smasharoo
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#162 Mar 11 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, it's one thing for a big retailer like Target to ensure that all their locations have separate Family restrooms. It's another for the bar down the street to do that.

The more I think about it, the more I have no answer regarding the building question. One bathroom for everyone seems ideal, but that's contingent on societal changes happening that make it a non issue. And I don't see those happening within the next 20 years. At least not sufficiently for a unisex bathroom to eclipse gendered options for utility.

But everyone having 3 restrooms doesn't seem like a good answer, either. That's a big financial strain, particularly on smaller businesses or any building where multiple sets of bathrooms are being built.

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Quote:

For YOU. In the way **** marriage is almost never an issue for Gbaji. It's an extremely important issue for a lot of people, a basic one that can't be avoided. I don't really know what "family" restroom as for. There are times when Hannah was younger and it was just me and her where she wasn't really old enough to use a women's room alone (without spending an hour playing with motion sensitive sinks at least) and obviously a 4 year old girl can see and hear things in a men's room that you might want to avoid (maybe a women's room too, I wouldn't really know). That seems like a small use case, but they're fairly common. Why isn't that "expensive"?


This is definitely a big pro in the family restroom column. I definitely encourage establishments to build family restrooms. But without having the slightest clue of what that would actually cost, I'm hesitant to expect it.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 1:23pm by idiggory
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#163 Mar 11 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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But everyone having 3 restrooms doesn't seem like a good answer, either. That's a big financial strain, particularly on smaller businesses or any building where multiple sets of bathrooms are being built.


It really isn't, any more than having separate gender ones is. If you have enough bathroom use to require urinals for efficiency you have enough demand for a non gendered room. Otherwise, have one room with a toilet and a locking door. Problem solved.
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#164 Mar 11 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Yeah, it's one thing for a big retailer like Target to ensure that all their locations have separate Family restrooms. It's another for the bar down the street to do that.

The more I think about it, the more I have no answer regarding the building question. One bathroom for everyone seems ideal, but that's contingent on societal changes happening that make it a non issue. And I don't see those happening within the next 20 years. At least not sufficiently for a unisex bathroom to eclipse gendered options for utility.

But everyone having 3 restrooms doesn't seem like a good answer, either. That's a big financial strain, particularly on smaller businesses or any building where multiple sets of bathrooms are being built.


If they are building new, there's no reason not to just build out 3-4 separate private bathrooms in the same space that would house two gender-specific rows of stalls\urinals on the walls. If we are going to continue to have these kinds of discussions and a group of people seriously feel like their rights are being infringed upon... What is else can be done? I don't see people en masse just accepting cross gender restrooms without some measure of privacy and safety\protection against opportunists.
#165 Mar 11 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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I think the other problem is that building a third, unisex bathroom isn't really the answer. That feels like separate but equal to me. Build a separate "colored" bathroom because the white people don't want them in it. Same difference here. It's one thing if it is the trans people asking for their own restroom. It's another when it's the non-trans people telling them to use it.

That's not to say I don't like the idea of a third unisex bathroom. I think there's a place for it. But I don't think it's the answer for the trans issue.
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#166 Mar 11 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the other problem is that building a third, unisex bathroom isn't really the answer. That feels like separate but equal to me

It is. So is me not being able to use the women's room with it's amazing lounge, stylish bartenders and free concierge service. There are practical limits to equality.
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#167 Mar 11 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I think the other problem is that building a third, unisex bathroom isn't really the answer. That feels like separate but equal to me. Build a separate "colored" bathroom because the white people don't want them in it. Same difference here. It's one thing if it is the trans people asking for their own restroom. It's another when it's the non-trans people telling them to use it.

That's not to say I don't like the idea of a third unisex bathroom. I think there's a place for it. But I don't think it's the answer for the trans issue.


Well, it's less about forcing transgenders to use it and more about having a third, private option for anyone to use. Better yet get rid of em all and just build private restrooms in place of what used to be gender-separated boys and girls rooms. Then no one can complain.
#168 Mar 11 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Well, it's less about forcing transgenders to use it and more about having a third, private option for anyone to use. Better yet get rid of em all and just build private restrooms in place of what used to be gender-separated boys and girls rooms. Then no one can complain.

Apparently, men using such unisex bathrooms as places to assault or ogle women, who as we know are made of tissue paper and fear, is such a common thing that it's economically more desirable to build separate restrooms. It's not a rare and unusual case like a TG person having to ****
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#169 Mar 11 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Except that it apparantly is an issue. There's a whole national debate on whether a six year old male in a dress should get to use the girls room or have to use the boys room (or a private restroom, as the school suggested).

The fact that there's a national debate over one kid would indicate that it's NOT a wide-spread issue.
Aripyanfar wrote:
Almost never an issue?

Yes, almost never an issue. If it should become one, then it'll become one. It's not now.
Smasharoo wrote:
For YOU. In the way **** marriage is almost never an issue for Gbaji. It's an extremely important issue for a lot of people, a basic one that can't be avoided. I don't really know what "family" restroom are for. There are times when Hannah was younger and it was just me and her where she wasn't really old enough to use a women's room alone (without spending an hour playing with motion sensitive sinks at least) and obviously a 4 year old girl can see and hear things in a men's room that you might want to avoid (maybe a women's room too, I wouldn't really know). That seems like a small use case, but they're fairly common. Why isn't that "expensive"?

I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here. I have no issue with "family" restrooms. I don't believe that ALL restrooms should be made in that fashion. It takes up considerably more space and money than a big room with three or four stalls and a couple of sinks. Hence me saying that "converting them all to private restrooms" is an expensive solution to something that is almost never an issue.

As Torrence said, I don't think that anyone using the family restroom is "Separate but equal". No one is forcing them to use it; it's being provided for convenience.
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#170 Mar 11 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Except, that's exactly what we did. The ladies' room is for humans who have vaginas and the (assumed) reproductive parts to go with it, and the gentlemens' room is for humans who have penises and the (assumed) reproductive parts to go with that. No one made that decision based on some imagined hate for a 6 year old transgender kid a couple thousand years into the future.
And what about men who lose their **** in an accident or something? That is certainly not the standard we go by. Or are you arguing that such people shouldn't use the men's bathroom either?

Quote:
Great, so all the stuff about "it's as unchangeable as the sky being blue" is bullsh*t and you wasted our time? Moderating your position on the fly to fit an individual response is banal. Decide. It's not that challenging. Either gender identity is set in stone like magic, or it isn't. If it is "for some people", but it's literally impossible to determine who, that's useless and equates to "it isn't"
The sky's color changes all the time. But when it's blue, it's blue. When it's black, it's black. It may not be 10 minutes later, and it may not have been 10 minutes prior, but at any given time, it is what it is.
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#171 Mar 11 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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#172 Mar 11 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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The sky's color changes all the time. But when it's blue, it's blue. When it's black, it's black. It may not be 10 minutes later, and it may not have been 10 minutes prior, but at any given time, it is what it is.

I'd like you to take this and print it out and bring it to your mental health professional. Me telling you what you're doing won't do you any good. Maybe the two of you can work through it together. At any rate, we've concluded our discussion now. Good luck with your life and it's challenges, sorry about that extra cock you got stuck with, hope everything goes well.
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#173 Mar 11 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here. I have no issue with "family" restrooms. I don't believe that ALL restrooms should be made in that fashion. It takes up considerably more space and money than a big room with three or four stalls and a couple of sinks. Hence me saying that "converting them all to private restrooms" is an expensive solution to something that is almost never an issue.

Right, because removing the signs and putting new ones up would bankrupt almost any organization.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#174 Mar 11 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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You think you convert a large room with four stalls along one wall and a couple sinks along the other into four small individual restrooms by changing signs?

And no one said "bankrupt". Said the cost wasn't worth the benefit for the size of the issue.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 1:15pm by Jophiel
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#175 Mar 11 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I think the other problem is that building a third, unisex bathroom isn't really the answer. That feels like separate but equal to me. Build a separate "colored" bathroom because the white people don't want them in it. Same difference here. It's one thing if it is the trans people asking for their own restroom. It's another when it's the non-trans people telling them to use it.

That's not to say I don't like the idea of a third unisex bathroom. I think there's a place for it. But I don't think it's the answer for the trans issue.


Well, it's less about forcing transgenders to use it and more about having a third, private option for anyone to use. Better yet get rid of em all and just build private restrooms in place of what used to be gender-separated boys and girls rooms. Then no one can complain.


Like I said, I don't think a third unisex bathroom is a bad idea in and of itself. But I don't think it's a solution to the topic we're discussing.
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#176 Mar 11 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
And what about men who lose their **** in an accident or something? That is certainly not the standard we go by. Or are you arguing that such people shouldn't use the men's bathroom either?


Yea, I figured this would be your argument, but men who lose their penises in tragic accidents aren't asking to use the ladies' bathroom, nor are women lobbying that they should for whatever imagined reason.

Rachel9 wrote:
The sky's color changes all the time. But when it's blue, it's blue. When it's black, it's black. It may not be 10 minutes later, and it may not have been 10 minutes prior, but at any given time, it is what it is.


Well that's true, but that's also a measurable physical difference. A male doesn't have a penis, then not have a penis, then have a **** again because he hopes really, really hard (>.>). What you are suggesting is exactly what Joph originally argued against - everyone doing whatever the @#%^ they want just because.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 2:23pm by Torrence
#177 Mar 11 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here. I have no issue with "family" restrooms. I don't believe that ALL restrooms should be made in that fashion. It takes up considerably more space and money than a big room with three or four stalls and a couple of sinks. Hence me saying that "converting them all to private restrooms" is an expensive solution to something that is almost never an issue.

Right, because removing the signs and putting new ones up would bankrupt almost any organization.
Jophiel wrote:
You think you convert a large room with four stalls along one wall and a couple sinks along the other into four small individual restrooms by changing signs?

And no one said "bankrupt". Said the cost wasn't worth the benefit for the size of the issue.

Going Metric is Too Expensive!
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#178 Mar 11 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Good lord, it's like none of you have read any of the neuroscience on Transgender and Homosexual brains. Not that that should reallly matter.
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#179 Mar 11 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Going Metric is Too Expensive!

Smiley: confused

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 1:31pm by Jophiel
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#180 Mar 11 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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You think you convert a large room with four stalls along one wall and a couple sinks along the other into four small individual restrooms by changing signs?


I think you leave the stalls and the sinks and change the sign. Unisex doesn't have to mean "single person use," and frequently doesn't. Before we get to it, Archie Bunker, yes leave the urinals also. I think women can probably stand the sight of them and determine the best **** option for themselves all on their own. Or we can add fainting couches if you think that's required, which would, I guess, bolster your monetary argument a little.

Is it the lack of a Pope that's making you so feisty today? It's going to be Scola, it'll be over Tuesday night.
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#181 Mar 11 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
And what about men who lose their **** in an accident or something? That is certainly not the standard we go by. Or are you arguing that such people shouldn't use the men's bathroom either?


Yea, I figured this would be your argument, but men who lose their penises in tragic accidents aren't asking to use the ladies' bathroom, nor are women lobbying that they should for whatever imagined reason.
Because it demonstrates that in fact, we do not expect people to use bathrooms based on their genitals.

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Rachel9 wrote:
The sky's color changes all the time. But when it's blue, it's blue. When it's black, it's black. It may not be 10 minutes later, and it may not have been 10 minutes prior, but at any given time, it is what it is.


Well that's true, but that's also a measurable physical difference. A male doesn't have a penis, then not have a penis, then have a **** again because he hopes really, really hard (>.>). What you are suggesting is exactly what Joph originally argued against - everyone doing whatever the @#%^ they want just because.
No, but that's not what we are talking about.
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#182 Mar 11 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
Because it demonstrates that in fact, we do not expect people to use bathrooms based on their genitals..


It's a bonehead argument at best. You're reaching.
#183 Mar 11 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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I think you leave the stalls and the sinks and change the sign. Unisex doesn't have to mean "single person use," and frequently doesn't.

Yeah, there's a greater chance of me teaching a fern to play piano than this happening on any wide scale. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you meant something that could potentially happen.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#184 Mar 11 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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My Google-Fu failed at finding any regulations or laws about which bathrooms TG people were supposed to use in Australia. I did find out that recently the Supreme Court determined that TG people should be issued new birth certificates reflecting their preferred gender, without having to go through gender reassignment surgery first. TG military personnel have only gained the right to stay in the military in the last two years. Prior to that, they were automatically discharged for having a mental disability: Gender Identity Disorder.

(Surprisingly to me, it's been 18 years since Homosexuals have been permitted to serve openly in the armed forces in Australia.) TG Australians have recently gained free and easy access to Passports reflecting their preferred gender. This might be associated with the Birth Certificate change. TG people are not to be excluded from any parental rights or custody of their prior children on the basis of the gender change. However some paperwork is still hard for TG people to obtain, and TG people still face a lot of prejudice and active violence against them from some sections of the Australian community.
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#185 Mar 11 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, there's a greater chance of me teaching a fern to play piano than this happening on any wide scale. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you meant something that could potentially happen.

Oh, change that only benefits the minority is hard? Well, fuck it, then. Let's just vote on human rights until everyone agrees that people different from themselves are worthy of equal consideration. That's usually how change works. The minority class just suffers silently until suddenly, *poof*! they're accepted. I assume you'd make the same argument for racial issues, sexual orientation, poverty, whatever, and that it's not that this happens to make you uncomfortable for some strange reason. "I don't really like the idea of this change, but I have no logical basis for that, so let's throw up our hands and say 'too hard'! and not think about it anymore. I don't know anyone impacted by it, anyway, and neither do you."
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#186 Mar 11 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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That's nice. There still ain't gonna be large scale unisex restrooms any time soon. Maybe we can break up your ranting with a few practical, useful suggestions to implement between now and your hopeful future Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#187 Mar 11 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you meant something that could potentially happen.


That's very generous of you, Jophiel.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 7:31pm by Kavekk
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#188 Mar 11 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
That's not the case. So, what is your opinion on an immigrant who comes to the US, who associates him or herself as a "United States Citizen", and complains when treated like an immigrant?
They are lying.


Why would they be lying? Based on what?
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I'm biased against statistics
#189 Mar 11 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's nice. There still ain't gonna be large scale unisex restrooms any time soon. Maybe we can break up your ranting with a few practical, useful suggestions to implement between now and your hopeful future

It's about 30 posts back. You dismissed it because of cost, then when that turned out to not be an issue, you dismissed it because it was too hard, then when that was addressed you laughed it off, because who can take the problems of TG people seriously. I mean they're a meaningless minority we should do nothing for, right? They'll get over it, or kill themselves. Either way.

You have some very odd mental blocks, sir. Hitting children, this. I don't see the common thread, but whatever. I have to say it's jarring to see someone who normally relies on reason to resort to "this is stupid, no one cares about this, right everyone?" Not sure what it's about, really.

What's the answer you want so you can be validated in not caring about this? There aren't enough TG people for it to matter? Ok. Society won't accept unisex bathrooms? Ok. It's too expensive for private businesses to have an extra bathroom? Ok.

Can you think of one that's falsifiable in any way through reasoned debate or evidence or do you really just want to continue posting "Come on...everyone knows..."

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#190 Mar 11 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:


It's about 30 posts back. You dismissed it because of cost, then when that turned out to not be an issue, you dismissed it because it was too hard, then when that was addressed you laughed it off, because who can take the problems of TG people seriously. I mean they're a meaningless minority we should do nothing for, right? They'll get over it, or kill themselves. Either way.



Actually, I thought he was saying that it would be far more offensive to more people to just slap a unisex sign on existing, non-private restrooms just to make a handful of folks more comfortable, and it would be cost-prohibitive to build the private restrooms in place of the existing, sex-separated ones I was suggesting.

I don't think he was saying that the issue for TG isn't serious, just that slapping a unisex sign on the ladies' room and calling it a day isn't the answer.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 3:52pm by Torrence
#191 Mar 11 2013 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Rachel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
That's not the case. So, what is your opinion on an immigrant who comes to the US, who associates him or herself as a "United States Citizen", and complains when treated like an immigrant?
They are lying.


Why would they be lying? Based on what?
Based on the given premise. They are not a us citizen, therefore if they say they are, they are either lying, or misinformed. Most likely the former.
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#192 Mar 11 2013 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Rachel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
That's not the case. So, what is your opinion on an immigrant who comes to the US, who associates him or herself as a "United States Citizen", and complains when treated like an immigrant?
They are lying.


Why would they be lying? Based on what?
Based on the given premise. They are not a us citizen, therefore if they say they are, they are either lying, or misinformed. Most likely the former.


Careful there. You're coming dangerously close to supporting his point.

Edited, Mar 11th 2013 3:59pm by Torrence
#193 Mar 11 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
It's about 30 posts back. You dismissed it because of cost

So your solution to "Waving a wand and making bathrooms unisex is impractical" is "Wave a wand and make bathrooms unisex".

Well, okay then.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#194 Mar 11 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Actually, I thought he was saying that it would be far more offensive to more people to just slap a unisex sign on existing, non-private restrooms just to make a handful of folks more comfortable, and it would be cost-prohibitive to build the private restrooms in place of the existing, sex-separated ones I was suggesting.

Really, I was saying that having a single "family" restroom makes sense (for multiple reasons) but converting large restrooms into individual units was a costly solution that exceeded the scope of the problem.

Smash wishes for a beautiful day where he can prove how evolved he is by having all men and women, trans and.. umm... untrans?... all **** in a communal hole. Which is beautiful and I know it made for all sorts of laughs in Ally McBeal but probably isn't a solution actually on the horizon.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#195 Mar 11 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
It's about 30 posts back. You dismissed it because of cost

So your solution to "Waving a wand and making bathrooms unisex is impractical" is "Wave a wand and make bathrooms unisex".

Well, okay then.


Jophiel wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
It's about 30 posts back. You dismissed it because of cost

So your solution to "Waving a wand and making bathrooms unisex is impractical" is "Wave a wand and make bathrooms unisex".

Well, okay then.


No, that's very stupid.

Something being impractical because of public opinion is very different from something being impractical because of cost. It's the difference between female suffrage and launching new york into space.
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#196 Mar 11 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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So your solution to "Waving a wand and making bathrooms unisex is impractical" is "Wave a wand and make bathrooms unisex".

Well, okay then.


No, my solution is to pass a law. Pass a law that makes it clear that gender identified women can use a women's bathroom. Or pass a law that makes it clear that if no neutral bathroom is provided anyone can use either. Not that hard. Passing laws is how we protect minority rights in this country. The burden of those laws on citizens of course matters, but generally not as much as the rights of citizens. I imagine integrating schools was a bit of a costly endeavor, the argument that it shouldn't have been done because of cost isn't very compelling to me. Title IX women's athletics cost universities money, I don't think that was a compelling reason not to pass it.

Pretending we don't have to worry about minority rights is just a tradition, but one not normally practiced by people who believe what you seem to believe. Unique snowflakes and all that, though. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention. Maybe you're pro civil union being equal to marriage for gays and think affirmative action is no longer necessary. Maybe you're completely consistent. Obviously I don't know what you think as well as you do, but your arguments here seem strained and completely misplaced. I can't imagine you making them in another thread. I've seen Gbaji make them on other issues hundreds of times. "We shouldn't do anything about climate change because we'll never get China to do anything so why bother", "Civil unions are just as good without offending the majority of people" etc.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#197 Mar 11 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Unisex restrooms and impractical for social reasons although it wouldn't cost anything.

Converting restrooms into separate units is impractical due to cost though I bet we'd all be thrilled to have the privacy.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#198 Mar 11 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
No, my solution is to pass a law. Pass a law that makes it clear that gender identified women can use a women's bathroom. Or pass a law that makes it clear that if no neutral bathroom is provided anyone can use either.

I have no quarrel with either of those solutions.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#199 Mar 11 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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I have no quarrel with either of those solutions.

Righty oh. Well, then. Illinois sucks!
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#200 Mar 11 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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What do you want to argue about now?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#201 Mar 11 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Having non-gender specific bathrooms is a much larger issue than just for transgender people, but that's the most "exciting" thing to make them about. I encounter needs for such regularly. I have an employee with an opposite **** personal assistant who he needs to bring with him into the bathroom. I've known elderly people who had a spouse that assisted them in the bathroom. Parents helping children of the opposite **** in the bathroom. Yes, transgender people. In college, having an opposite **** friend make sure that someone hadn't died of alcohol poisoning in the shower resulted in the police being called because he might be a peeping tom, who knows.

Naked people! Gah! people who aren't naked but have body parts! Gah! Maybe if we stopped making it so exciting and mysterious and taboo then people would stop having crazy fetishes about it since it would be boring. I find the whole seperate bathroom thing about as necessary as assigned some words arbitrarily as "naughty". Manufactured problems, indeed.

Nexa
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