Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Transgender rightsFollow

#427 Mar 19 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,594 posts
It's a handicapped stall, but sheep doesn't appear to have any physical handicaps.

Off With it's Haunches!
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#428 Mar 19 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
******
27,272 posts
Elinda wrote:
It's a handicapped stall, but sheep doesn't appear to have any physical handicaps.

Off With it's Haunches!
Not being able to move it's limbs doesn't count as a handicap?

Edited, Mar 19th 2013 4:34pm by Aethien
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#429 Mar 19 2013 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
***
3,046 posts
The Parents POV .

And yes I did sign the petition, as I don't think a child should have to grow up living as something they are not.


Change.org
Our 6-year-old daughter isn't allowed to use the girls' bathroom at her school because she's transgender. Tell the school to treat our daughter equally!
Sign Our Petition

Ellen -

Our daughter, Coy, is a beautiful, happy, friendly, 6-year-old girl. But her school is treating her differently from the other kids -- just because she happens to be transgender.

We have five kids, and Coy is one of three triplets. When she was little, we used to dress her like her brother, but that made her really unhappy. She would be excited to go to the playground, but when we laid out boys' clothes for her, she would get sad and ask if she could stay home.

When Coy was 4, she told us something was wrong with her body. She asked us when she could go the doctor to become a girl. We took her to a psychologist, who said that Coy is transgender and we should support her and let her be who she is. As soon as we let Coy grow her hair out and wear girls' clothes, it was like someone turned on a light. She was happy all the time.

Coy's school, Eagleside Elementary, was initially supportive, too -- until this past December, when they abruptly told us Coy couldn't use the girls' bathroom anymore. Now we need your support.

We started a petition on Change.org to ask the school to stop discriminating against our daughter. Will you click here to sign it?

When Coy started at Eagleside last September, her teachers and classmates accepted her for who she was. They referred to her using female pronouns, and she used the girls' bathroom for months with no problems. Then, all of a sudden, the principal told us Coy would have to use the boys' room, the staff bathroom for adults, or the bathroom for sick children in the nurse's office. Our daughter is not a boy, she's not an adult, and she's not sick.

Our state, Colorado, is one of 16 states where it's illegal for public schools to discriminate against kids like Coy. Eagleside had an opportunity to teach kids to celebrate each other's differences, but instead they set our daughter up for harassment and bullying. Coy doesn't understand why she can't be treated the same as all the other little girls.

We are grateful to have the support of LGBT advocates, thanks to the work of Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund (TLDEF) and GLAAD. We also know that lots of other schools have done the right thing for LGBT students (such as allowing ***-Straight Alliances) after being petitioned to do so on Change.org. We hope that if enough people sign our petition, Eagleside Elementary will comply with the law and treat our daughter with equality and respect.

Click here to sign our petition demanding that Eagleside Elementary allow our daughter, Coy, to use the girls' bathroom.

Thank you,

Kathryn and Jeremy Mathis
Fountain, Colorado
____________________________
In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair! -ElneClare

This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
#430 Mar 19 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Rachel wrote:
Please show me where i said "all". Or where we were talking about sexual preference.

Yes, that's usually how it goes.


Please reread the conversation that you interrupted. If you're not against the concept of there existing a man, who feels like a woman, but acts and dresses like a man, then you have not addressed my point.
#431 Mar 19 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
496 posts
Quote:
Please reread the conversation that you interrupted. If you're not against the concept of there existing a man, who feels like a woman, but acts and dresses like a man, then you have not addressed my point.
As i stated, there are many such people. Again, most trans women pretend to be men, at least for some part of their lives. However, it's highly unlikely that you would find such people using the women's bathroom. Ya know, because they are hiding who they are, and going into a women's bathroom would very quickly out them.
____________________________
#432 Mar 19 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Rachel wrote:
As i stated, there are many such people. Again, most trans women pretend to be men, at least for some part of their lives. However, it's highly unlikely that you would find such people using the women's bathroom. Ya know, because they are hiding who they are, and going into a women's bathroom would very quickly out them.


How are they hiding who they are? You just contradicted your own claim. You are insinuating that if the person doesn't dress or behave like the opposite ***, then he or she is "hiding who they are".

However, my point is in reference of men, who OPENLY feel like women, but act and dress like men and vice versa. In other words, you ask a man his ***, he says "woman", because that's what he relates to; however, every other masculine idiosyncrasy remains constant. That has been the point of this entire conversation.
#433 Mar 19 2013 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
496 posts
I'm not sure that really happens.
____________________________
#434 Mar 19 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Rachel9 wrote:
I'm not sure that really happens.


That is totally irrelevant to my point. Allowing people to violate rules based on *** undermines the rules themselves. Either change the laws or support them. You can't have laws based on *** and then allow people to determine their *** "all willy-nilly". What's the point of having the law int the first place?
#435 Mar 19 2013 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
496 posts
Everything is irrelevant to your point. I think i could probably quote your post and say "i agree", and you'd give the same response.

Edited, Mar 19th 2013 7:09pm by Rachel9
____________________________
#436 Mar 19 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Not at all.I explicitly explained how your opinion on the number of men that feel like a woman, but act like a man, has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to undermine laws. You said yourself that you didn't say "all", which means that you believe that there exist some.

So, if you feel otherwise, why don't you explain to me why your aforementioned belief has any relevance in upholding laws.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 3:14am by Almalieque
#437 Mar 19 2013 at 6:56 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,933 posts
I know this was directed at Alma, but:

Belkira wrote:
You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute that someone can be born biologically female but should be a male and vice versa?


What does "should be" mean in this context? This suggests that there was some conscious intent (divine perhaps), but then a mixup at the baby making plant occurred, and the baby came out female instead. IMO, the relevant point here is what biological *** the person *is*. Talking about what they should be, or could be, or whatever, injects a nearly infinite set of variables into the equation that aren't helpful at all. Who's to say that someone "should be"? Again, this implies intent.

Ultimately, what matters here is that we currently do divide bathrooms up by biological ***. We can debate why that is, but that is the distinction. Thus, when you see a sign that says "men" or "women", it's not referring to anything other than the biological sexual genitalia of the people using the respective restrooms. Adding in other criteria doesn't solve any problem, it only creates new ones.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#438 Mar 19 2013 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,084 posts

What does "should be" mean in this context? This suggests that there was some conscious intent (divine perhaps), but then a mixup at the baby making plant occurred, and the baby came out female instead. IMO, the relevant point here is what biological *** the person *is*. Talking about what they should be, or could be, or whatever, injects a nearly infinite set of variables into the equation that aren't helpful at all. Who's to say that someone "should be"? Again, this implies intent.


Good question, no one has ever considered that. What? For how long? Oh really? Well, it appears I was mistaken, what I meant was "Apparently you missed the last 100 years where people considered this and developed a clear criteria for.

It doesn't imply intent any more than a Banana implies that god must have decided to make an awesome treat that fits just into the human hand. People probably aren't more than biology, but gender probably is more than *** organs.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#439 Mar 19 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
People probably aren't more than biology, but gender probably is more than *** organs.


People aren't denying that. simply stating that our *** discrimination laws, rules, practices, etc. are purely biological. As long as those laws are biological, society can't uphold them by allowing people to determine their *** by anything other than the biological criteria.
#440 Mar 19 2013 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,933 posts
Quote:
When Coy was 4, she told us something was wrong with her body. She asked us when she could go the doctor to become a girl. We took her to a psychologist, who said that Coy is transgender and we should support her and let her be who she is. As soon as we let Coy grow her hair out and wear girls' clothes, it was like someone turned on a light. She was happy all the time.


Honestly, and I know I'll get slammed for saying this, but that was the wrong answer from the psychologist. What should have been said was "This is a common occurrence among young children, and it could indicate transgender tendencies, but it's way too young to be sure, so try to gently remind him that he is a boy and isn't going to change into a girl, and let's see if this is just a phase that will pass. Let him interact with other kids and see social gender roles within that setting as well. If he's still insisting that he's a girl in say 4 or 5 years then we'll look at other options". The point being that there's no way a psychiatrist could make a diagnosis like that at such a young age, and being wrong about this can do vastly more harm to the child in the long run by encouraging him to be a her than the other way around.

By following the psychiatrists suggestion, they basically reinforced a gender identity in their son which may very well have disappeared in short order otherwise. Kids go through phases like this all the time. If parents decide the kid is transgender and then start dressing him as a girl and referring to him as a girl, it may make him happy in the short term, but that potentially transitory phase will become normal and "stick" with the child and may possibly make him miserable for the rest of his life. I think that was a terrible decision by the parents, and if the psychiatrist actually told them that (which I suspect may be exaggeration on their part), he or she should possibly have their license revoked and banned from the profession.

Quote:
When Coy started at Eagleside last September, her teachers and classmates accepted her for who she was. They referred to her using female pronouns, and she used the girls' bathroom for months with no problems.


The $10,000 question is whether the other kids knew Coy was a boy in the first place. Would not be the first time someone left out some key facts in a story to garner support.

Quote:
Then, all of a sudden, the principal told us Coy would have to use the boys' room, the staff bathroom for adults, or the bathroom for sick children in the nurse's office. Our daughter is not a boy, she's not an adult, and she's not sick.


There's the problem. Their son is a boy. The school doesn't decide what legally makes someone a boy or a girl. They do, however, have to comply with the rules regarding bathrooms for boys and girls.

Quote:
Our state, Colorado, is one of 16 states where it's illegal for public schools to discriminate against kids like Coy.


Again. The school isn't discriminating against Coy. It's not discrimination to apply the same rules to everyone.

Quote:
Eagleside had an opportunity to teach kids to celebrate each other's differences, but instead they set our daughter up for harassment and bullying. Coy doesn't understand why she can't be treated the same as all the other little girls.


Whatever harassment and bullying this child will undergo will almost certainly not be caused or prevented based on a schools decision regarding which bathrooms to use. Unless, as I suspect, the parents were trying to keep their sons biological *** a secret from the other kids in school and trying to pass him off as a girl, and expecting the school to go along with the ruse. Then it makes sense. Um.... But I think that's a really poor way to go about doing things and absolutely calls into question their claim to want to teach kids to celebrate each other's differences. Again, I'm speculating here, but reading between the lines, it seems like this is a more likely explanation for what happened.

Also, if Coy doesn't understand why he can't be treated the same as the other little girls, perhaps that's the first clue that he can't possibly know whether he's really transgender or not. It suggest to me that they demand more understanding in other children then they've imparted in their own. A simple "boys have a *****, girls have a ******" at some point would at least give their child some starting point to understand that he's not really the same as the "other little girls".


Dunno, but it seems like there's some information missing here. I'd like to hope that parents would not so quickly and easily decide their 3-4 year old is transgender and then embrace it like that. But I can't see how there could be any other explanation. That's just way too young to make that kind of determination. At that age, kids have not had enough opportunities to engage with other kids and adopt much of any kind of social identities at all, much less something as radical as that. I honestly believe that they created this problem by their response to the whole thing.


Edited, Mar 19th 2013 6:34pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#441 Mar 19 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
34,933 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
It doesn't imply intent any more than a Banana implies that god must have decided to make an awesome treat that fits just into the human hand.


It does if someone says something as nonsensical as "It's physically a banana, but it should have been a pear".

Quote:
People probably aren't more than biology, but gender probably is more than *** organs.


OK. Not sure what that has to do with a statement about what someone "should be". If she'd said someone was born a male but felt like a female, I'd have had no issue with it. My beef was with the phase "should be" in reference to being male or female. As I said, it implies that there was some kind of intent. I suppose it also implies that there's some proper configuration, but again that becomes purely subjective. Who gets to decide what gender someone "should be"?

Isn't it more about what gender someone decides (or believes) they are. I mean, buying the whole "Woman trapped in a man's body" (or vice vesa) bit, I just think using "should be" suggests some kind of mistake of biology, which I think is a cop out. You are what you are (yeah, deep. I know). I think it weakens the person to fall back on a phrase like "should be". At least have the strength of conviction that you are or are not something.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#442 Mar 19 2013 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,646 posts
Should be. As in thinks and feels like a female. As in, when their brain is scanned, it looks like the opposite ***.

As in: Transgender.
#443 Mar 19 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,933 posts
Belkira wrote:
Should be. As in thinks and feels like a female. As in, when their brain is scanned, it looks like the opposite ***.


We have different interpretations of the phrase "should be" then.

Quote:
As in: Transgender.


Then say "is transgender". Or "Is biological male, but feels female". Or anything else that actually describes what's going on.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#444 Mar 19 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,646 posts
gbaji wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Should be. As in thinks and feels like a female. As in, when their brain is scanned, it looks like the opposite ***.


We have different interpretations of the phrase "should be" then.

Quote:
As in: Transgender.


Then say "is transgender". Or "Is biological male, but feels female". Or anything else that actually describes what's going on.


I apologize, oh wise one. I will be sure to run all of my posts by you before I submit them in the future so as not to anger the Zam god...
#445 Mar 19 2013 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,084 posts
OK. Not sure what that has to do with a statement about what someone "should be". If she'd said someone was born a male but felt like a female, I'd have had no issue with it. My beef was with the phase "should be" in reference to being male or female. As I said, it implies that there was some kind of intent. I suppose it also implies that there's some proper configuration, but again that becomes purely subjective. Who gets to decide what gender someone "should be"?

The person, moron. Where's the confusion. You get to decide what gender you should be. I get to decide what gender I should be. Which word about "gender is probably more than *** organs" confused you so? Was it "probably"?
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#446 Mar 20 2013 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
******
49,744 posts
Screenshot
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#447 Mar 20 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
496 posts
No, gbaji is right. Should is the wrong word. We should probably stick to using "is". The gender someone is. Should implies they aren't actually.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 10:37am by Rachel9
____________________________
#448 Mar 20 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
*****
15,952 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Screenshot

Snug as a Bug in a Rug!
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#449 Mar 20 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
13,228 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Screenshot


Well, at least they have separate beds. Wouldn't want it to get weird.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#450 Mar 20 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Rachel9 wrote:
No, gbaji is right. Should is the wrong word. We should probably stick to using "is". The gender someone is. Should implies they aren't actually.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 10:37am by Rachel9


Based off of your previous posts and your lack of response to my previous post, you're not agreeing to what you think you're agreeing to.

Gbaji is referencing "is" in the biological sense, not in the "what do I feel like being today?". There is no choice in that definition.
#451 Mar 20 2013 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
496 posts
I'm sorry, i will spell this out for you: No, i don't actually agree with gbaji's main point. I do agree with him that should is not the correct word, but not for the same reason he does.

By the way, i said gender, not ***. I understand if you don't really know what that means. Most people don't, it seems.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 6:31pm by Rachel9
____________________________
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 80 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (80)