If restrooms were not intended to be divided based on genitalia, we'd have urinals in both. But we don't.
But as i've repeatedly explained, there would not be. The type of people who go into women's bathrooms with a ***** don't usually use urinals, and even if they did, they are such a small minority, it doesn't really matter.
Yes. Because the only people with penises *now* who use the women's restroom are trans. This is why I keep saying you're only looking at this from a trans perspective. The restrooms are separated by ***. That's why there are urinals in the men's restrooms, but not the women's. If they were not, then there wouldn't be. I really think you just aren't grasping that I'm talking about why they are the way they are, and that if we changed the criteria for restroom use, they wouldn't be that way anymore.
So if we're not only talking about trans people, who's left? Cis women do not use urinals, so we don't need any for them. Cis men use the men's bathroom, so we don't need to install urinals in the women's bathroom for them. Who's left that the women's bathroom could possibly need urinals for?
Um... Because if you remove the assumption that bathrooms are divided based on genitalia, there'd be no more reason to have urinals in the "men's restroom", than in the women's. That's the point. We'd either not have urinals in either, or we'd have them in both. And frankly "both" would be pointless as well. We'd just eliminate different restrooms entirely at that point.
But since we *do* have different restrooms, and one set has urinals and the other does not, we can conclude that the distinction is based on genitalia and that society cares enough about that distinction to make separate restrooms for each. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but just that this is how things are.
The vast majority of people who use the men's bathroom are able and willing to use a urinal. Not all of them can or are willing to, but that doesn't really matter. It's worth having them anyway, just because most can and will use them. However the vast majority of people who use a women's bathroom either cannot, or will not use a urinal. Some can, and would, but that doesn't matter either, because they are so few, that they cannot justify having urinals in women's bathrooms.
Again, that's because we assume that people using one type have a ***** and people who use the other do not. Once you eliminate that distinction, then the need or lack for urinals in any given restroom disappear.
But gender in this context is purely internal. As I've said repeatedly, there's no objective way to determine this.
Huh? That's not what i'm arguing at all. Men should use the men's bathroom, and women should use the women's bathroom. There's no need for any exceptions.
Except you're insisting on a definition of men and women that is purely subjective. So saying "men should use the men's restroom", but leaving the definition of "men" up to the individual is completely meaningless. It's the same as saying "anyone can use any restroom they want". I'm not sure why you can't see this.
Realistically, trans people do and will continue to use whichever bathroom they are more comfortable in, and there's nothing anyone can do about it, but i'm not arguing that they should be allowed to.
You aren't? I've somewhat forgotten the full track of this thread, but I thought you were arguing that it was wrong for the school to deny the 6 year old trans his/her right to use the girls restroom facilities at school. Are you saying you aren't arguing this? Then what the **** are you arguing?
A biological male is always allowed to use the mens restroom, whether a trans or not.
That is not true at all.
Of course it is. Certainly from a legal perspective, which given we're talking about public schools, is the most relevant issue. Obviously, "allowed" can mean different things in the private arena, and a trans person can have issues no matter what he or she does.
Heheh, this makes me wonder if anyone ever wore makeup and pretended to be black so they could get into a black bathroom,
I think the point you're missing is that there's no requirement for disguise here. After all, who are you to demand that a trans male must dress as a female? Can't someone feel like a girl on the inside without dressing like one? And who says what a girl dresses like anyway. Aren't you imposing gender roles if you do that? So a biological male could feel like a girl on the inside, but insist that girls can dress just like boys, but then also insist that he/she must be allowed to use the girls restroom and showers.
Why not? See, the problem is that you're demanding that society change its rules for your particular set of needs, but assuming that no one else has a similar and/or equally legitimate argument. This is why I keep pointing out how you are being too narrow minded, and failing to see how the changes/exceptions you want must result in other changes/exceptions because to fail to do so would be to unfairly discriminate against yet another group. But you don't see that other group because you're only thinking of your own, so you can't understand why people oppose *you*.
It's not about you. It's about a set of consistent and fair rules that apply to everyone, but that allow for the maximum social comfort and adherence to societal norms. And somewhat by definition, that's going to ***** some percentage over. Kinda can't be helped.