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#652 Mar 26 2013 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
In a woman's locker room with you.


What about it? Would I have a problem? Absolutely not. Why would I?



Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:31pm by Belkira


Because I do recall you saying before that you would feel uncomfortable about sharing showers with heterosexual men. 'Twas the time you listed reasons on why a woman wouldn't want to share a shower with a heterosexual man and asked me to provide reasons why a man wouldn't want to do the same with homosexuals. I then copied and pasted your response and you ridiculed my response. So, if I overlooked your new sentiment about co-ed showers, I apologize. Just don't forget, that was my solution as well.


Who said anything about sharing a shower...? You asked about being in a locker room. I have never been in a locker room where I was forced to share a shower with anyone. The last one I was in had separate stall showers, as well as curtained changing areas. Maybe it's a fundamental difference between female vs. male locker rooms? I dunno. I wouldn't be comfortable sharing a shower with another woman, either. If I found myself in a gym or what have you where the locker room had a communal shower, I simply wouldn't use it and would shower at home.

So... what's your point?
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#653 Mar 26 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Who said anything about sharing a shower...? You asked about being in a locker room. I have never been in a locker room where I was forced to share a shower with anyone. The last one I was in had separate stall showers, as well as curtained changing areas. Maybe it's a fundamental difference between female vs. male locker rooms?

Yup, it is. Culturally part of proving how TOTALLY NOT GAY you are literally involves being naked around other men with your limp cock flopping away in the breeze. Also, hitting them in the ass with towels, and of course the oral sex. Wait, I may be confused on that last part, but that's what I was told last time I was at the gym.
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#654 Mar 26 2013 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Who said anything about sharing a shower...? You asked about being in a locker room. I have never been in a locker room where I was forced to share a shower with anyone. The last one I was in had separate stall showers, as well as curtained changing areas. Maybe it's a fundamental difference between female vs. male locker rooms?

Yup, it is. Culturally part of proving how TOTALLY NOT GAY you are literally involves being naked around other men with your limp cock flopping away in the breeze. Also, hitting them in the ass with towels, and of course the oral sex. Wait, I may be confused on that last part, but that's what I was told last time I was at the gym.


That sucks for you guys, I suppose.

However, for the sake of clarity and not because I think Smash is accusing me of this, not being seen naked in the ladies locker room has nothing to do with being afraid I'm being checked out by a lesbian or a "secret man" and more to do with my own self-consciousness and body image issues. Again, if I found myself in that situation, I would just opt not to shower there. Seems easy enough...
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#655 Mar 26 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Because I do recall you saying before that you would feel uncomfortable about sharing showers with heterosexual men.
What does that have to do with a woman with an unknown sexual orientation?
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#656 Mar 26 2013 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.
And this is why you two, even if you grew up and lived in major metropolises all your lives, are hicks from two-street towns. It's also a great demonstration of the conservative mind-set being correlated with being much more fearful people than the liberal (sorry, progressive in American terms) mind set.

While I'm on a roll ignoring that you two are too small a data set, I'd like to point out that (in Oz, don't have data for USA) women are 20 basis points more progressive than men on social issues, even if they are much closer to men statistically on what they think about fiscal issues.
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#657 Mar 27 2013 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.

That?

You sure?

The problem as stated by gbaji is that it's necessary to butt ones nose into other peoples bathroom business and speculate what they're thinking, what drives their actions and to then finally declare those other people are all victims of a liberal indoctrination and need a good solid conservative to do their decision-making for them.
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#658 Mar 27 2013 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Culturally part of proving how TOTALLY NOT GAY you are literally involves being naked around other men with your limp cock flopping away in the breeze.
Oh, it was supposed to be limp?
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#659 Mar 27 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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It's like Utena!

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#660 Mar 27 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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Belkira wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
In a woman's locker room with you.


What about it? Would I have a problem? Absolutely not. Why would I?



Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:31pm by Belkira


Because I do recall you saying before that you would feel uncomfortable about sharing showers with heterosexual men. 'Twas the time you listed reasons on why a woman wouldn't want to share a shower with a heterosexual man and asked me to provide reasons why a man wouldn't want to do the same with homosexuals. I then copied and pasted your response and you ridiculed my response. So, if I overlooked your new sentiment about co-ed showers, I apologize. Just don't forget, that was my solution as well.


Who said anything about sharing a shower...? You asked about being in a locker room. I have never been in a locker room where I was forced to share a shower with anyone. The last one I was in had separate stall showers, as well as curtained changing areas. Maybe it's a fundamental difference between female vs. male locker rooms? I dunno. I wouldn't be comfortable sharing a shower with another woman, either. If I found myself in a gym or what have you where the locker room had a communal shower, I simply wouldn't use it and would shower at home.

So... what's your point?


My point being is that everyone doesn't posses the same level of comfort in regards to sexuality. Many people have no problem with open showers, apparently you do (along with others). However, men are often called "homophobic" for stating similar sentiments. You border the line of hypocrisy when ridiculing other reasonable comforts.
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#661 Mar 27 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
I have never been in a locker room where I was forced to share a shower with anyone. The last one I was in had separate stall showers, as well as curtained changing areas. Maybe it's a fundamental difference between female vs. male locker rooms? I dunno. I wouldn't be comfortable sharing a shower with another woman, either. If I found myself in a gym or what have you where the locker room had a communal shower, I simply wouldn't use it and would shower at home.

So... what's your point?


My junior high and high school gym locker room had one big room with about 14 shower heads. All three locker rooms in our Field House had the same, and every school we visited to play a game at had the same. It's even commonly portrayed on television and in popular media. The few times I was inside the girls locker room I did notice that their showers were walled off individually.

And as early as 10 years ago, hygiene was a graded factor in our high school and junior high gym classes. If you didn't shower you were reprimanded. They didn't care what you did after football practice though...
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#662 Mar 27 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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And on page 14 we finally make it to the shower controversy. I liked this thread better when it was about sports. Smiley: frown

3 more to go...
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#663 Mar 27 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the end it always comes down to whether or not the gays can see your wiener while you're showering.
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#664 Mar 27 2013 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.
And this is why you two, even if you grew up and lived in major metropolises all your lives, are hicks from two-street towns. It's also a great demonstration of the conservative mind-set being correlated with being much more fearful people than the liberal (sorry, progressive in American terms) mind set.

While I'm on a roll ignoring that you two are too small a data set, I'd like to point out that (in Oz, don't have data for USA) women are 20 basis points more progressive than men on social issues, even if they are much closer to men statistically on what they think about fiscal issues.


I'm grew up in an exceedingly small town (700 people in the middle of nowhere — currently residing a town of 2,000 in the middle of nowhere but lived in Minneapolis for a long time) and have no problem with transgender people using the restroom or locker room of their true gender (which would be opposite of their born gender, I suppose). Then again, when I moved to Minneapolis, I lived in the heart of the "gay area." Which, my small town friends never failed to point out.

And @#%^ that progressive sh*t. I'm a liberal.
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#665 Mar 27 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Default
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.
And this is why you two, even if you grew up and lived in major metropolises all your lives, are hicks from two-street towns. It's also a great demonstration of the conservative mind-set being correlated with being much more fearful people than the liberal (sorry, progressive in American terms) mind set.

While I'm on a roll ignoring that you two are too small a data set, I'd like to point out that (in Oz, don't have data for USA) women are 20 basis points more progressive than men on social issues, even if they are much closer to men statistically on what they think about fiscal issues.


Your hateful speech doesn't contradict anything mentioned. Just because you can't handle the obvious truth, doesn't make us the bad guys. This is the tactic that people like to do nowadays, to nefariously label people who don't agree with your opinions.
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#666 Mar 27 2013 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the end it always comes down to whether or not the gays can see your wiener while you're showering.
I work out with a gay friend, and after when we're showing I always make a point of staring at his penis so he doesn't feel uncomfortable.
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#667 Mar 27 2013 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
In the end it always comes down to whether or not the gays can see your wiener while you're showering.
I work out with a gay friend, and after when we're showing I always make a point of staring at his penis so he doesn't feel uncomfortable.


you're the best
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#668 Mar 27 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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I made it to page three, and quit out of boredom.

You guys are like bad post tri-athloners, I swear to god (God) {Allah} [Monkey]
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#669 Mar 28 2013 at 5:44 AM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.

That?

You sure?

The problem as stated by gbaji is that it's necessary to butt ones nose into other peoples bathroom business and speculate what they're thinking, what drives their actions and to then finally declare those other people are all victims of a liberal indoctrination and need a good solid conservative to do their decision-making for them.


Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.

That?

You sure?

The problem as stated by gbaji is that it's necessary to butt ones nose into other peoples bathroom business and speculate what they're thinking, what drives their actions and to then finally declare those other people are all victims of a liberal indoctrination and need a good solid conservative to do their decision-making for them.


That's not what I quoted. What I quoted was that no knows what you're thinking and the distinction of "I'm a woman in a man's body" vs "I'm a man dressed up like a woman to see women" only applies to that one individual (and the ones that he tells_. No one else can know UNLESS you "butt your nose into their bathroom business and speculate what they're thinking, what drives their actions and to then finally declare any victims if necessary".
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#670 Mar 28 2013 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Your hateful speech doesn't contradict anything mentioned. Just because you can't handle the obvious truth, doesn't make us the bad guys. This is the tactic that people like to do nowadays, to nefariously label people who don't agree with your opinions.

Oooh, I used a tactic that is praised and marked up for in American Debates in education, but is a fail in Logic 101 elsewhere: Attacking-the-Man.
I don't rate down posts, for bad logic or anything else, in the Asylum and move on. That's not olde Asylum rules. I insult and move on. Apparently I insulted hicks from small towns by comparing you two to them. Sorry Grady.
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#671 Mar 28 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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I made it to page three, and quit out of boredom.
Me too.
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#672 Mar 28 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Your hateful speech doesn't contradict anything mentioned. Just because you can't handle the obvious truth, doesn't make us the bad guys. This is the tactic that people like to do nowadays, to nefariously label people who don't agree with your opinions.

Oooh, I used a tactic that is praised and marked up for in American Debates in education, but is a fail in Logic 101 elsewhere: Attacking-the-Man.
I don't rate down posts, for bad logic or anything else, in the Asylum and move on. That's not olde Asylum rules. I insult and move on. Apparently I insulted hicks from small towns by comparing you two to them. Sorry Grady.


As long as you understand that you're wrong and that your tactic is futile. I couldn't care less about the actual insults. You would fail in an insult competition.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

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#673 Mar 28 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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You would fail in an insult competition.
Is that...is that supposed to be an insult?
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#674 Mar 28 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Default
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Rachel9 wrote:
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You would fail in an insult competition.
Is that...is that supposed to be an insult?

No. I'm not sure how you thought that.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#675 Mar 28 2013 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
That's not what I quoted. What I quoted was that no knows what you're thinking and the distinction of "I'm a woman in a man's body" vs "I'm a man dressed up like a woman to see women" only applies to that one individual (and the ones that he tells_. No one else can know UNLESS you "butt your nose into their bathroom business and speculate what they're thinking, what drives their actions and to then finally declare any victims if necessary".

See, thoughts are not crimes. Terrorism is now a grey area, if the state can prove you have been preparing for a terrorist attack. But if a hetero man's man goes into the Ladies' toilets dressed up as a woman, and no-one can tell from body language or other language he's having a fun time looking at the women at the sinks, then I really don't give a @#%^. No harm, no foul.
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#676 Mar 28 2013 at 5:42 PM Rating: Default
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
That's not what I quoted. What I quoted was that no knows what you're thinking and the distinction of "I'm a woman in a man's body" vs "I'm a man dressed up like a woman to see women" only applies to that one individual (and the ones that he tells_. No one else can know UNLESS you "butt your nose into their bathroom business and speculate what they're thinking, what drives their actions and to then finally declare any victims if necessary".

See, thoughts are not crimes. Terrorism is now a grey area, if the state can prove you have been preparing for a terrorist attack. But if a hetero man's man goes into the Ladies' toilets dressed up as a woman, and no-one can tell from body language or other language he's having a fun time looking at the women at the sinks, then I really don't give a @#%^. No harm, no foul.


You are missing the point. Why does he have to be dressed up as a woman? Why are you limiting this to the bathrooms and not locker rooms and showers?
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#677 Mar 28 2013 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread. I pray gbaji and Alma never have a child with artistic talent, for they would freak out when I walk them into the life drawing class.


Also I suggest you never go camping where the cabins have co-ed bathrooms with toilet and shower stalls, so to prevent anyone from seeing your personal equipment. Who knows who may have X-ray vision.
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#678 Mar 28 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hope they don't have a death drawing class. That would be morbid.
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#679 Mar 28 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
I hope they don't have a death drawing class. That would be morbid.


That called the anatomy class for Med students. The art student anatomy class, only require us to learn the names of muscles and bones using a book.
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This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.

"England needs, examples of people who, leaving Heaven to decide whether they are to rise in the world, decide for themselves that they will be happy in it, and have resolved to seek, not greater wealth, but simpler pleasures; not higher fortune, but deeper felicity; making the first of possessions self-possession, and honouring themselves in the harmless pride and calm pursuits of peace." - John Ruskin
#680 Mar 28 2013 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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ElneClare wrote:
If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread. I pray gbaji and Alma never have a child with artistic talent, for they would freak out when I walk them into the life drawing class.

I was a fine arts major (2D) in college so neener neener Smiley: grin
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#681 Mar 28 2013 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
ElneClare wrote:
If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread. I pray gbaji and Alma never have a child with artistic talent, for they would freak out when I walk them into the life drawing class.

I was a fine arts major (2D) in college so neener neener Smiley: grin


Jophiel wrote:
ElneClare wrote:
If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread. I pray gbaji and Alma never have a child with artistic talent, for they would freak out when I walk them into the life drawing class.

I was a fine arts major (2D) in college so neener neener Smiley: grin



Joph you're on the list of people who may show discomfort at nude models in-front of your kids, but not forbade them from majoring in Art just due to the requirement of taking a life drawing class every term.

I loved giving those tours when I was in college.
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This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.

"England needs, examples of people who, leaving Heaven to decide whether they are to rise in the world, decide for themselves that they will be happy in it, and have resolved to seek, not greater wealth, but simpler pleasures; not higher fortune, but deeper felicity; making the first of possessions self-possession, and honouring themselves in the harmless pride and calm pursuits of peace." - John Ruskin
#682 Mar 28 2013 at 6:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I couldn't care less if my kids took Life Drawing classes in college. I did and, really, mechanically staring at and drawing less than idealized specimens of humanity isn't anything to be particularly excited or threatened by.

Edit: Actually, I'd care in that I'd want them to take a smarter college path than fine art Smiley: laugh

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 8:03pm by Jophiel
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#683 Mar 28 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
ElneClare wrote:
If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread. I pray gbaji and Alma never have a child with artistic talent, for they would freak out when I walk them into the life drawing class.

I was a fine arts major (2D) in college so neener neener Smiley: grin


I took a couple of art classes in high school. I remember the stuff my teacher had us to draw, it got boring real quick. I was more into wanting to draw anime, not still life. I later realized that "art" in general is like that in institutions. Instructors teach "real" music, drawing, acting, etc., i.e. opposite of what you see in the media.

On a side note, I see no value of drawing a nude body. What value do you get out of drawing a nude body over a clothed body, or anything else of that matter, other than nudity?

Edited, Mar 29th 2013 3:15am by Almalieque
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#684 Mar 28 2013 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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What value do you get out of drawing a nude body over a clothed body, or anything else of that matter, other than nudity?
Even if there was none, surely you don't really think a lack of clothes removes all potential value from a piece of art...
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#685 Mar 28 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
On a side note, I see no value of drawing a nude body.
Well color me shocked.
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#686 Mar 28 2013 at 7:41 PM Rating: Default
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What value do you get out of drawing a nude body over a clothed body, or anything else of that matter, other than nudity?
Even if there was none, surely you don't really think a lack of clothes removes all potential value from a piece of art...


I said in comparison to a clothed body, scantly if preferred.
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Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#687 Mar 28 2013 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
I said in comparison to a clothed body

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I see no value of drawing a nude body.
Okay.
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#688 Mar 28 2013 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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ElneClare wrote:
If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread. I pray gbaji and Alma never have a child with artistic talent, for they would freak out when I walk them into the life drawing class.


Can't speak for Alma, but that you're making a gross (and false) assumption. I'm just curious how being aware of and sensitive to how other people feel about issues like having to share restrooms with people of another sex somehow equates to me being unwilling to allow someone to choose to be a model in a life drawing class (or choose to take the course). That's just a bizarre leap to make IMO.

Look. We have separate male and female restrooms in our society. We can debate endlessly about whether we should, but all I'm doing here is recognizing that we do, and that we do because a large percentage of our population prefers it that way. It's not about what I like or don't like. It's about recognizing how things are, and the likely reasons why they are the way they are, and then explaining to someone who insists that it should be some other way that they're going to have problems convincing the rest of society to go along with their ideas.

And yes, I'm also pointing out to that person (and others) that just because they think their way is better does not mean that most of the rest of the society around them will agree with them. And simply labeling people as mean or evil or bigoted or whatever because they don't agree with you is pretty darned immature and unproductive. As I've stated repeatedly, a transgendered person's discomfort using the "wrong" restroom from their perspective is no more legitimate or important then someone else's discomfort with the transgendered person using the "wrong" restroom. Both are basically one person's own hangups. But they are incompatible hangups, and there are are a lot more people with one than the other.

I'm just aware of that, while some people seem to think there's some absolute moral right or wrong to this issue. There isn't.


Quote:
Also I suggest you never go camping where the cabins have co-ed bathrooms with toilet and shower stalls, so to prevent anyone from seeing your personal equipment. Who knows who may have X-ray vision.


Again, I have no clue what you think this means within the context of this conversation. It's not about my comfort. It's about being aware of what makes other people uncomfortable. Ask 1000 parents if they'd be ok with their kid's school having co-ed bathrooms, and somewhat close to 999 of them will say they would not be. And that's what you're dealing with here. Right or wrong, that's what they want (or don't want) and they "win". End of story.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 8:07pm by gbaji
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#689 Mar 28 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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You can keep saying that, but it's just not true. Most people do NOT mind sharing public bathrooms with people of the same gender, even if they are not the same sex. You really are in the minority on this one.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 11:25pm by Rachel9
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#690 Mar 28 2013 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
My point being is that everyone doesn't posses the same level of comfort in regards to sexuality. Many people have no problem with open showers, apparently you do (along with others). However, men are often called "homophobic" for stating similar sentiments. You border the line of hypocrisy when ridiculing other reasonable comforts.


There is a big difference between me not wanting strangers to see me naked because I am self conscious and someone not wanting another individual to see them naked because of an irrational fear that they are being checked out. Because of my comfort level, I won't shower in a communal shower. I'll wait until I get home. I am not going to request that the ladies locker room be cleared so I can take a shower by myself. If you (general you) are afraid that a scary gay might be in your communal shower, then don't shower there. Shower elsewhere.

I'll also add that I'm willing to bet that a transgender individual who has not yet been able to begin or has not finished their physical transformation would avoid any and all situations where they would be forced to shower in a communal shower. I am not transgender, but I know that they are already self conscious and uncomfortable with their bodies, so I imagine they wouldn't want to enter into a situation where attention is called to it. Communal showers are easy to avoid. Public restrooms less so.

Edited, Mar 29th 2013 12:05am by Belkira
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#691 Mar 28 2013 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
Look. We have separate male and female white and colored restrooms in our society. We can debate endlessly about whether we should, but all I'm doing here is recognizing that we do, and that we do because a large percentage of our population prefers it that way. It's not about what I like or don't like. It's about recognizing how things are, and the likely reasons why they are the way they are, and then explaining to someone who insists that it should be some other way that they're going to have problems convincing the rest of society to go along with their ideas.
Try another argument, douche.
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#692 Mar 29 2013 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
On a side note, I see no value of drawing a nude body. What value do you get out of drawing a nude body over a clothed body, or anything else of that matter, other than nudity?
Because it teaches you how humans of any shape or size work, how they move and how to draw them in a realistic way. That doesn't work when you have clothes obscuring things and nobody who is at all serious about his or her art will mind the nudity.
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#693 Mar 29 2013 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I was a fine arts major (2D) in college so neener neener Smiley: grin
I bet you just couldn't stop Mcdonalds from calling you about a job.
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#694 Mar 29 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I didn't say it was a stellar academic choice. I'd build a time machine to do it all over again but, you know... art major.
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#695 Mar 29 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, I didn't say it was a stellar academic choice. I'd build a time machine to do it all over again but, you know... art major.
At least you're well-suited for "draw a funny picture on the box" requests at Pizza Hut!
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#696 Mar 29 2013 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe I'll draw a time machine!

I did have a graphic design specialization in there which is moderately more useful although I got wrapped up in the exciting world of career horticulture instead and have never seriously used it
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#697 Mar 29 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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ElneClare wrote:
If I was giving you all a tour of an Independent Art College, I can tell which of you would never allow your child to attend, by the way you have responded to this thread.
I wouldn't attend a tour of an Independent Art College because I'm not pissing my money away on an education that will do nothing to provide a career for my child. They can do that themselves after they get a job to pay for it.
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#698 Mar 29 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I did have a graphic design specialization in there which is moderately more useful although I got wrapped up in the exciting world of career horticulture instead and have never seriously used it
As long as you don't mind dealing with retarded clients, graphic design is a pretty good career, certainly more useful than fine art anyway.
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YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#699 Mar 29 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Again, I have no clue what you think this means within the context of this conversation. It's not about my comfort. It's about being aware of what makes other people uncomfortable. Ask 1000 parents if they'd be ok with their kid's school having co-ed bathrooms, and somewhat close to 999 of them will say they would not be. And that's what you're dealing with here. Right or wrong, that's what they want (or don't want) and they "win". End of story.

I ??? UR DATAZ! Smiley: motz

My exhaustive sampling of several polls (i.e. googling "poll co-ed bathrooms" and clicking on links) seemed in indicate an approval of 15-20%, with some amount of undecided, and usually a majority opposed. Of course none of the polls were scientific, and most had like a dozen respondents... Smiley: lol

Anyway, lets say there's 0.2% of the population we need to account for in some special way. For an employer like mine you have a couple of dozen employees at this location alone. You start to reach the point where it can make sense to address the issue in some way, especially if that 0.2% has a sympathetic audience. If they don't have that audience, well then of course you can treat them like smokers and make them stand across the street in the rain to feed their addiction.
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#700 Mar 29 2013 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Anyway, lets say there's 0.2% of the population we need to account for in some special way. For an employer like mine you have a couple of dozen employees at this location alone. You start to reach the point where it can make sense to address the issue in some way, especially if that 0.2% has a sympathetic audience.

Assuming 48 employees, that would mean you're accommodating 9.6% of one person at that location.

Are you sure you mean 0.2%?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#701 Mar 29 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's about 12,000 employees here, so yeah, that would be like 24ish. Though in retrospect, I suppose there's no way you'd have known that... Smiley: lol

Edited, Mar 29th 2013 9:01am by someproteinguy
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