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#602 Mar 25 2013 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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You can't just switch the terms man and woman to mean *** and/or gender to support your point.
That's correct. The terms refer to gender.
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#603 Mar 26 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
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Almalieque, Rachel (however incommunicatively) was arguing for pages that gender should not be defined by genitalia. Not that *** should not be determined by genitalia, but that gender should not be be determined by genitalia.

Rachel also stated that *** IS DEFINED biologically. However, he also said that women could have penises. The last time I checked, a ***** is biological, not stereotypical traits as described with gender. So the correct label would be a man with a female gender. You can't just switch the terms man and woman to mean *** and/or gender to support your point.

If *** is biologically defined, then how does a person with zero woman biological traits and all man biological traits be defined as a woman? That person is defined as a man by *** with the freedom to choose to exercise either a male or female gender. Just because a man decides to choose a female's gender, it doesn't biologically change him into a woman.

Because biologically, *** is NOT just a matter of genitalia. Biologically, there is a difference between Male and Female brains, which is largely set when the fetus is in the womb. Most of the time the biologically Male brain develops with biologically Male genitalia. In a small but significant percentage of pregnancies, biologically Female brains develop in fetuses with biologically Male genitalia, and vice versa.

One example of the difference between male and female brains is the thickness of the corpus callosum, which is the cord of nerves that connects the right brain hemisphere with the left brain hemisphere. In Female brains this cord is usually significantly thicker than in Male brains. This doesn't mean that men and women are wildly mentally different creatures from each other. But there are minority differences that are significant enough to push males and females into some statistically different groupings. Females are likely to be a little better at multitasking. Males are somewhat more prone to be unable to vocalise when they are very emotionally upset. Although males can multitask just fine, and females are also prey to being unable to talk when very upset. On intelligence bell curves, Males tend to extend into both the highest and lowest extremes more than females. The males at the extreme highest intelligence levels are speculated to be there because they can single-task to the exclusion of everything else better than females, who tend to spread their thinking more widely. I haven't read anything yet to tell me why women are more protected than men from the very lowest end of the intelligence scale.

Basically, the medical profession doesn't think that men who think they are women actually don't have any female biological traits. It's just that most of their female traits are all in the brain (as opposed to all in the mind). There may or may not be some other hormonal and general nervous system traits going on as well.
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#604 Mar 26 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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TWO MEN ENTER! ONE WOMEN LEAVES!
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#605 Mar 26 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:


Arip wrote:

In light of this, and assuming Rachel is a male-to-female transgender, I'm assuming that Rachel would really appreciate the personal security of being permitted to use facilities that are concurrent with her gender but not her ***. I'm assuming that Rachel, for instance, would feel very uncomfortable walking back into the male *** bathroom that she's used for most of her childhood in a girl's haircut, make-up and feminine clothing. She'd probably feel very out of place doing that, and be aware that the men in the bathroom would probably be uncomfortable with her being there.


So I avoided from mentioning the hypocrisy in this sentiment when the thread was interesting. However, since it's pretty much dead, I'll bring it up. Where were all of these feelings when debating DADT? How come heterosexuals can't execute their same feelings to choose their surroundings when dealing with comfort? How is it "homophobia" for a heterosexual, but "ok" for not only transgenders but often women?


A better way to phrase the spirit of your argument might be why is Rachel concerned about the comfort of the men around her in the male restroom but isn't concerned with the comfort of the women around her in the female restroom?
#606 Mar 26 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Almalieque wrote:


Arip wrote:

In light of this, and assuming Rachel is a male-to-female transgender, I'm assuming that Rachel would really appreciate the personal security of being permitted to use facilities that are concurrent with her gender but not her ***. I'm assuming that Rachel, for instance, would feel very uncomfortable walking back into the male *** bathroom that she's used for most of her childhood in a girl's haircut, make-up and feminine clothing. She'd probably feel very out of place doing that, and be aware that the men in the bathroom would probably be uncomfortable with her being there.


So I avoided from mentioning the hypocrisy in this sentiment when the thread was interesting. However, since it's pretty much dead, I'll bring it up. Where were all of these feelings when debating DADT? How come heterosexuals can't execute their same feelings to choose their surroundings when dealing with comfort? How is it "homophobia" for a heterosexual, but "ok" for not only transgenders but often women?


A better way to phrase the spirit of your argument might be why is Rachel concerned about the comfort of the men around her in the male restroom but isn't concerned with the comfort of the women around her in the female restroom?


You can stand him up, point him towards an argument, and give him a gentle prod in the backside, but he's still going to teeter off to the side and fall down a nearby set of stairs.
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#607 Mar 26 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
A better way to phrase the spirit of your argument might be why is Rachel concerned about the comfort of the men around her in the male restroom but isn't concerned with the comfort of the women around her in the female restroom?
Because women aren't nearly as uncomfortable with sharing a restroom with other women as some people here seem to think.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 11:57am by Rachel9
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#608 Mar 26 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Almalieque wrote:


Arip wrote:

In light of this, and assuming Rachel is a male-to-female transgender, I'm assuming that Rachel would really appreciate the personal security of being permitted to use facilities that are concurrent with her gender but not her ***. I'm assuming that Rachel, for instance, would feel very uncomfortable walking back into the male *** bathroom that she's used for most of her childhood in a girl's haircut, make-up and feminine clothing. She'd probably feel very out of place doing that, and be aware that the men in the bathroom would probably be uncomfortable with her being there.


So I avoided from mentioning the hypocrisy in this sentiment when the thread was interesting. However, since it's pretty much dead, I'll bring it up. Where were all of these feelings when debating DADT? How come heterosexuals can't execute their same feelings to choose their surroundings when dealing with comfort? How is it "homophobia" for a heterosexual, but "ok" for not only transgenders but often women?


A better way to phrase the spirit of your argument might be why is Rachel concerned about the comfort of the men around her in the male restroom but isn't concerned with the comfort of the women around her in the female restroom?


You can stand him up, point him towards an argument, and give him a gentle prod in the backside, but he's still going to teeter off to the side and fall down a nearby set of stairs.

Of course his point is at the bottom of the stairs, duh. Now he has to wait until you slowly walk down there so he can make it. Smiley: oyvey
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#609 Mar 26 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
You can stand him up, point him towards an argument, and give him a gentle prod in the backside, but he's still going to teeter off to the side and fall down a nearby set of stairs.

Of course his point is at the bottom of the stairs, duh. Now he has to wait until you slowly walk down there so he can make it. Smiley: oyvey


When I was a kid, I once sent my brother down the stairs in a laundry basket, with a pillow to hold in front of his face as an airbag.


...Not that I'm recommending doing that to Alma, of course. That'd be crazy.








.........
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#610 Mar 26 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I did that to my older brother. Minus the laundry basket, a pillow, and his wallet.
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#611 Mar 26 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
Torrence wrote:
A better way to phrase the spirit of your argument might be why is Rachel concerned about the comfort of the men around her in the male restroom but isn't concerned with the comfort of the women around her in the female restroom?
Because women aren't nearly as uncomfortable with sharing a restroom with other women as some people here seem to think.


Interpretation: You don't tell them.
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#612 Mar 26 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I did that to my older brother. Minus the laundry basket, a pillow, and his wallet.


Smiley: mad

My bother pushed me headfirst into a fish tank. Also sans pillow or laundry basket. Don't know about the wallet, I was too busy checking to make sure my head wasn't severed on the glass.
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#613 Mar 26 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Interpretation: You don't tell them.
Do you tell everyone you share a public bathroom with about your genitals? I'm pretty sure that would make most people uncomfortable regardless.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 1:54pm by Rachel9
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#614 Mar 26 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Interpretation: You don't tell them.
Do you tell everyone you share a public bathroom with about your genitals? I'm pretty sure that would make most people uncomfortable regardless.


No. But then I use the restroom that's set aside for people with my genitals, so I don't have to. As I said earlier, I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have (kinda why we have different restrooms in the first place), and I respect that by using only the restroom that matches my genitals.
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#615 Mar 26 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have
Yeah, this isn't really true. You are in the minority. I know it might seem that way, since some people are really vocal about their hate for trans people, but the majority really don't have a problem with us sharing a bathroom with them. In fact, i can assure you people would be more uncomfortable if i went into a men's bathroom wearing a dress.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 2:49pm by Rachel9
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#616 Mar 26 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
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I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have
Yeah, this isn't really true. You are in the minority. I know it might seem that way, since some people are really vocal about their hate for trans people, but the majority really don't have a problem with us sharing a bathroom with them. In fact, i can assure you people would be more uncomfortable if i went into a men's bathroom wearing a dress.


Then why not tell them?
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#617 Mar 26 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Default
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gbaji wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Quote:
I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have
Yeah, this isn't really true. You are in the minority. I know it might seem that way, since some people are really vocal about their hate for trans people, but the majority really don't have a problem with us sharing a bathroom with them. In fact, i can assure you people would be more uncomfortable if i went into a men's bathroom wearing a dress.
Then why not tell them?
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that would make most people uncomfortable regardless.
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#618 Mar 26 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Arip wrote:
Because biologically, *** is NOT just a matter of genitalia.


I've only said that several times.

Arip wrote:
Biologically, there is a difference between Male and Female brains...

Basically, the medical profession doesn't think that men who think they are women actually don't have any female biological traits. It's just that most of their female traits are all in the brain (as opposed to all in the mind). There may or may not be some other hormonal and general nervous system traits going on as well.


If you want to list the brain's neurology as "biological", that's fine. However, now you're confusing "human biological traits" with "*** defining traits". Many, if not most, gender traits stem from brain activity. Just because you like the color pink (aka positive brain stimulation when presented the color pink, doesn't make you a woman. That is not a *** defining trait. Again, that is the entire purpose of the creation of the word gender, to differentiate common traits among sexes from *** defining traits.

Basically, you can't ignore the entire reproduction system along with other more notable physical differences and call a man a woman because of his intelligence level.
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#619 Mar 26 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Quote:
I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have
Yeah, this isn't really true. You are in the minority. I know it might seem that way, since some people are really vocal about their hate for trans people, but the majority really don't have a problem with us sharing a bathroom with them. In fact, i can assure you people would be more uncomfortable if i went into a men's bathroom wearing a dress.


Then why not tell them?
If I walk into any bathroom, regardless of what gender people are in there, and say something like "hey, just wanted to let you all know that I have a *****," it's going to make most people uncomfortable.
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#620 Mar 26 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Quote:
I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have
Yeah, this isn't really true. You are in the minority. I know it might seem that way, since some people are really vocal about their hate for trans people, but the majority really don't have a problem with us sharing a bathroom with them. In fact, i can assure you people would be more uncomfortable if i went into a men's bathroom wearing a dress.


Then why not tell them?
If I walk into any bathroom, regardless of what gender people are in there, and say something like "hey, just wanted to let you all know that I have a *****," it's going to make most people uncomfortable.
I'm not sure why Gbaji needs this explained to him...
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#621 Mar 26 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Default
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He doesn't, he just wants people to do that so he can then say "Hah! I told you people would be uncomfortable with you in there!"
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#622 Mar 26 2013 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't care what gender anyone else in the bathroom is, as long as they don't try to engage me in conversation. If someone came in and said "hey, I have a ******" I'd be more concerned with why they thought they should tell me this and why they're saying anything to me at all if it isn't something pertinent like "hey, you have some toilet paper on your shoe".
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#623 Mar 26 2013 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Quote:
I do this because I acknowledge that in the society we live in, most people are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone with a different set of genitals than they have
Yeah, this isn't really true. You are in the minority. I know it might seem that way, since some people are really vocal about their hate for trans people, but the majority really don't have a problem with us sharing a bathroom with them. In fact, i can assure you people would be more uncomfortable if i went into a men's bathroom wearing a dress.
Then why not tell them?
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that would make most people uncomfortable regardless.


Right. But your claim was that the majority of women don't have a problem with you going into the women's restroom even though you have male genitalia. But you can't say that if you conceal this fact from them. Their apparent lack of concern for your presence in the restroom isn't because your appearance as a woman satisfies them that you are a women in terms of gender identity, but that they assume you are a woman in terms of genitalia.

I'm not saying verbally tell them, but that if you "told them" by your outward appearance, the story would be very different. Walk into an occupied womans restroom dressed as a male, and see what happens. Again, it's not how you dress that affects the reaction, but that it's assumed that your appearance indicates your physical ***, and *that's* what they're reacting to.
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#624 Mar 26 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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But you can't say that if you conceal this fact from them.
Why not? If they can't even figure it out, then it's obviously not a problem, even if they would care if they knew.

Quote:
I'm not saying verbally tell them, but that if you "told them" by your outward appearance, the story would be very different.
lol, yeah, no kidding.
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#625 Mar 26 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
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But you can't say that if you conceal this fact from them.
Why not? If they can't even figure it out, then it's obviously not a problem, even if they would care if they knew.


There's so many things wrong with that statement that I'm not even sure where to begin. So if someone doesn't complain about something they don't know about, then it's really not a problem? And yeah, I think they would care if they knew.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying verbally tell them, but that if you "told them" by your outward appearance, the story would be very different.
lol, yeah, no kidding.


Yup. Which strongly suggests that they would care if they knew. Why would you assume it's because they're all just peachy with your gender identity being female?
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#626 Mar 26 2013 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Rachel9, I would have no problem if you (or any other transgender male-to-female individual) used the ladies room and I happen to be in there as well.

I am a woman, and I approve this message.

ETA: gbaji, stop acting like you really care how any woman feels.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 6:29pm by Belkira
#627 Mar 26 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm not saying verbally tell them, but that if you "told them" by your outward appearance, the story would be very different. Walk into an occupied womans restroom dressed as a male, and see what happens. Again, it's not how you dress that affects the reaction, but that it's assumed that your appearance indicates your physical ***, and *that's* what they're reacting to.
So, really "butch" women who have vaginas also elicit this reaction, right?
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#628 Mar 26 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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There's so many things wrong with that statement that I'm not even sure where to begin. So if someone doesn't complain about something they don't know about, then it's really not a problem?
If the problem is only them being uncomfortable? Yes, that is correct. If they don't know it happened, it can't make them uncomfortable. If they aren't uncomfortable, there is no problem.

Quote:
And yeah, I think they would care if they knew.
Sure, some would, but not most. Ask any openly trans people who might end up using a public bathroom around people who know they are trans (coworkers, classmates, friends, etc). It's very rarely an issue. It's just that when someone decides to make it an issue, they tend to really go all out.

Quote:
Yup. Which strongly suggests that they would care if they knew.
No, it really doesn't suggest anything. This is a completely different situation, and is not comparable at all.
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#629 Mar 26 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Default
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Belkira wrote:
Rachel9, I would have no problem if you (or any other transgender male-to-female individual) used the ladies room and I happen to be in there as well.

I am a woman, and I approve this message.

ETA: gbaji, stop acting like you really care how any woman feels.


What about a masculine "normal" appearing man with a female gender in a locker rooom?

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 2:09am by Almalieque
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#630 Mar 26 2013 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Rachel9, I would have no problem if you (or any other transgender male-to-female individual) used the ladies room and I happen to be in there as well.

I am a woman, and I approve this message.

ETA: gbaji, stop acting like you really care how any woman feels.


What about a masculine "normal" appearing man with a female gender in a locker rooom?

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 2:09am by Almalieque


What about it...? In which locker room?
#631 Mar 26 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Rachel9, I would have no problem if you (or any other transgender male-to-female individual) used the ladies room and I happen to be in there as well.

I am a woman, and I approve this message.

ETA: gbaji, stop acting like you really care how any woman feels.


What about a masculine "normal" appearing man with a female gender in a locker rooom?

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 2:09am by Almalieque


What about it...? In which locker room?


In a woman's locker room with you.
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#632 Mar 26 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkiria, and what green martians of unknown ***/gender? How would you feel about sharing a locker room with them!?
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#633 Mar 26 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
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There's so many things wrong with that statement that I'm not even sure where to begin. So if someone doesn't complain about something they don't know about, then it's really not a problem?
If the problem is only them being uncomfortable? Yes, that is correct. If they don't know it happened, it can't make them uncomfortable. If they aren't uncomfortable, there is no problem.


So it's ok to operate a peep hole in a dressing room as long as the people using it don't know and thus aren't uncomfortable with someone else watching them dress? I'm honestly curious how far the "what they don't know doesn't hurt them" approach goes.

Quote:
Quote:
And yeah, I think they would care if they knew.
Sure, some would, but not most. Ask any openly trans people who might end up using a public bathroom around people who know they are trans (coworkers, classmates, friends, etc). It's very rarely an issue.


Um... They're being polite (and politically correct) because they know the trans person. Ask 100 random women you don't know if they'd be ok with a man disguised as a woman using the women's restroom with them without informing them, and 99 of them will say they would not like that. The other one would apparently be Belkira, although she's probably being polite and politically correct as well.

Quote:
It's just that when someone decides to make it an issue, they tend to really go all out.


No. I'm pretty sure everyone who isn't trying to spare your feelings feels that it's an imposition for you to do this. I mean, we all empathize with what you're going through, but that does not translate to "yeah, just use whichever restroom you feel most comfortable in". Again, this goes back to my earlier statement about violating 1000 people's comfort zone in order to make yourself more comfortable.

Quote:
Quote:
Yup. Which strongly suggests that they would care if they knew.
No, it really doesn't suggest anything. This is a completely different situation, and is not comparable at all.


I think it is. We both agree that if it's not obvious that you're a biological male using the women's restroom, that women aren't going to say or do anything. But you presume that it's because if they knew you had a ***** they'd be fine with it anyway because your gender identity is female, and I presume it's because they don't know you have a ***** and would be uncomfortable with that regardless of what you felt about yourself. I think my position is vastly more likely to represent the typical feelings of the US population. Of course, I'm inclined to do that because it's my position (duh), but I suspect that most people reading agree with me as well.


Call it intolerance if you want, but I think my statement more accurately reflects how people actually feel.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 5:32pm by gbaji
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#634 Mar 26 2013 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ask 100 random women you don't know if they'd be ok with a man disguised as a woman using the women's restroom with them without informing them, and 99 of them will say they would not like that.
Well i'll start: I'd sure as **** would not be ok with that.

But okay, i see the problem here. We aren't talking about men disguised as women.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:36pm by Rachel9
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#635 Mar 26 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Rachel9 wrote:
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Ask 100 random women you don't know if they'd be ok with a man disguised as a woman using the women's restroom with them without informing them, and 99 of them will say they would not like that.
Well i'll start: I'd sure as **** would not be ok with that.

But okay, i see the problem here. We aren't talking about men disguised as women.


The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.
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#636 Mar 26 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman.
No, from their perspective i'm just another woman using the bathroom.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:45pm by Rachel9
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#637 Mar 26 2013 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Let me add for completeness sake; the reason this is a problem is because this gives any pervert who wants to hang out in women's restrooms or locker rooms or whatever an excuse to do so. They can just claim to be transgender and *poof* they're not doing anything wrong, right? Worse, they can now potentially sue a business or school for discrimination for *not* allowing them to it. Again, there's no external way to know what's really going on inside someone else's head. You can say "I'm transgender and I feel like a woman on the inside, so it's ok", all day long, but there's literally zero way for me to know if that's true.

So yeah, it sucks, but you happen to be wanting to do something that makes you comfortable that also happens to be something that a number of sexual predators would like to do as well. You get the short end of the stick on this one, but society kinda has to err on the side of not exposing people to easy victimization by predators. As Joph pointed out, most publicly available restrooms are on private property. The restaurant owner is most concerned about making his restrooms as friendly and safe feeling as possible to the larger number of customers possible. This is always going to be a problem for the one person who's transgender and who's comfort condition is the opposite of the other 1000. But ultimately, that's something you'll have to deal with. It's more than unreasonable to try to force everyone else to change to comply with your desires. At the end of the day, you have two completely incompatible requirements. One has to give.
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#638 Mar 26 2013 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Okay, i'll take that to mean you now agree that most people are in fact not bothered by sharing a public bathroom with a trans person (or at least not any more than anyone else).

Or if not, why did you just suddenly change your argument?
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Rachel9 wrote:
Quote:
From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman.
No, from their perspective i'm just another woman using the bathroom.


Um... This is different than a man disguised as a woman (from their perspective) exactly how? Or do you not get what a disguise is?
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#640 Mar 26 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Rachel9 wrote:
Okay, i'll take that to mean you now agree that most people are in fact not bothered by sharing a public bathroom with a trans person (or at least not any more than anyone else).

Or if not, why did you just suddenly change your argument?


You really need to quote what you're referring to. It would not be the first time my fingers accidentally put a "not" type prefix in something and made it appear like I was suddenly saying the exact opposite of what I've been saying all along, but at least help me out a bit here.
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#641 Mar 26 2013 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Rachel9 wrote:
Okay, i'll take that to mean you now agree that most people are in fact not bothered by sharing a public bathroom with a trans person (or at least not any more than anyone else).

Or if not, why did you just suddenly change your argument?


You really need to quote what you're referring to. It would not be the first time my fingers accidentally put a "not" type prefix in something and made it appear like I was suddenly saying the exact opposite of what I've been saying all along, but at least help me out a bit here.
I'm sorry, i was responding to the previous post. It didn't seem necessary to quote it, since i was responding right after, but next time i will.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 9:04pm by Rachel9
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#642 Mar 26 2013 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:
The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.


This.
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#643 Mar 26 2013 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
In a woman's locker room with you.


What about it? Would I have a problem? Absolutely not. Why would I?



Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:31pm by Belkira
#644 Mar 26 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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The answer is unisex bathrooms. Everybody wins. "Liberals" get to allow transgenders to pee with whichever gender they want to and "Conservatives" get to see companies save money by only building one set of bathrooms instead of two. Win-win!
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#645 Mar 26 2013 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
The answer is unisex bathrooms. Everybody wins. "Liberals" get to allow transgenders to pee with whichever gender they want to and "Conservatives" get to see companies save money by only building one set of bathrooms instead of two. Win-win!


I think that's what I said about 11 pages ago. Obviously it's not the answer anyone wants to entertain for some reason.

Mostly because gbaji and Alma might still have to see someone different in the completely safe and comfortable public restrooms they frequent.
#646 Mar 26 2013 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Fine. Put fully enclosed stalls around the urinals as well/
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#647 Mar 26 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Fine. Put fully enclosed stalls around the urinals as well/
All that wasted money!
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#648 Mar 26 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Stalls cost far less than running plumbing for 2 separate bathrooms. All that money saved! As well, with all the space saved from not having 2 sets of bathrooms, business will have more retail space leading to even more money!!!
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#649 Mar 26 2013 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
In a woman's locker room with you.


What about it? Would I have a problem? Absolutely not. Why would I?



Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:31pm by Belkira


Because I do recall you saying before that you would feel uncomfortable about sharing showers with heterosexual men. 'Twas the time you listed reasons on why a woman wouldn't want to share a shower with a heterosexual man and asked me to provide reasons why a man wouldn't want to do the same with homosexuals. I then copied and pasted your response and you ridiculed my response. So, if I overlooked your new sentiment about co-ed showers, I apologize. Just don't forget, that was my solution as well.
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#650 Mar 26 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Showering is a tad different than taking a pee or a crap. Not that anyone expects you to grasp that.
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#651 Mar 26 2013 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Showering is a tad different than taking a pee or a crap. Not that anyone expects you to grasp that.


Maybe the reason why I intentionally didn't say bathroom and said locker room in my question? Not that anyone expects you to grasp that.
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