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#127 Mar 08 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?

Elinda's the bad type of feminist.
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#128 Mar 08 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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BD: So you don't think that the feminist movement seems more about blaming men for all of womenkind's ills? You asked me why I responded the way I did. I answered you. I also added that my post was mostly in reference to cid it was an edit, so maybe you missed it.

Cid: It's not disagreeing with the feminist ideology that is the issue. It's painting all feminists with the "man-hater" brush.

If you think that women should have the right to vote, get equal pay, and should not be discriminated against then guess what? You're a feminist.
#129 Mar 08 2013 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?

Elinda's the bad type of feminist.

Serra kicks ***.
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#130 Mar 08 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled



Sorta on topic: In my experience the virulent, castration-squad man-haters are to the feminist movement what the Teabaggers are to the GOP. They don't represent the majority, but it's hard to hear the resonable discussions over the howling of the loonies.


Edited, Mar 8th 2013 5:51pm by Bijou
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Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#131 Mar 08 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled
My apologies then.



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#132 Mar 08 2013 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled
My apologies then.
I have a chocolate polar bear. I'd give it you you if I could.


ALSO: Wasn't me either!!Smiley: grin
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#133 Mar 08 2013 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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#134 Mar 08 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? @#%^ off back to tumblr.


Right, a few teenagers on tumblr have a stronger claim on the label than, say, the suffragettes. And you have no problem with black people, you just hate ********

Quote:
Feminism is not infallible, and pointing out potential holes in the rhetoric does not make me sexist/misogynist/whatever, but if anyone expresses anything other than complete agreement, they get branded as some sort of heretic.


Absurd. Feminism is not even slightly homogneous, and as a subject of academic writing is consistently self-critical. There are certain things you can say that will get you laughed at; this is the power of language.
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#135 Mar 08 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?


Their disappointing ***** sizes as far as I can tell.

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#136 Mar 08 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?
Their disappointing ***** sizes as far as I can tell.
Or all their cycles synced up at once.
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#137 Mar 08 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?


Their disappointing ***** sizes as far as I can tell.


Shame isn't enough, Samira. They have to feel guilty for having them, too.

Wait, ****, catholic church beat us to it again.
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#138 Mar 08 2013 at 10:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Feminism always seems to be about being really angry at people who have a *****, playing the victim card, and raging about the patriarchy.

People who make this argument always seem to be ignorant uneducated men with tiny ****** In my experience. Also, women aren't paid less on average because they chose some value other than money, or because they choose to stay home and raise kids, they aren't bad negotiators who won't quit and will work for less pay. Women aren't valued appropriately by the market because of bias. It's not complicated. Surprising as it may seem, given the last 100 years of social science, you fucking idiots aren't the first ones to have these sorts of epiphanies. You can fairly trivially control for these factors, when you do, it turns out women are paid less. The most likely reason seems to be that men make most of the wage decisions, and people are more likely to pay higher wages to people who look like them. Sounds idiotically simple, but sometimes that's how it works. If you're not a white guy, you aren't getting the white guy money.

Please, I beg of you, regale us with your fascinating anecdotes of the woman you know who earns more money than you and argue that disproves metric tons of studies. Be a white guy, though, or I probably won't pay any attention.
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#139 Mar 08 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Be a white guy, though, or I probably won't pay any attention.


Varus will be pleased to know you swing that way.
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#140 Mar 08 2013 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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Varus will be pleased to know you swing that way.

Sure, laugh at him now, but when he perfects okra based **** lube, then who is going to be the **** of the jokes? What? Still Varus? I see.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#141 Mar 09 2013 at 12:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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There seem to be a lot of people who are anti-feminism because of the 3 or 4 most outrageous examples of it that they've seen on the internet.

These people also seem to take great offense at some (perhaps reaching) feminist arguments or opinion blogs that cause essentially zero real-life harm to them. While ignoring the tremendous real-life gains that feminism has produced over the past 50 years.
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#142 Mar 09 2013 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:

There seem to be a lot of people who are anti-feminism because of the 3 or 4 most outrageous examples of it that they've seen on the internet.

These people also seem to take great offense at some (perhaps reaching) feminist arguments or opinion blogs that cause essentially zero real-life harm to them. While ignoring the tremendous real-life gains that feminism has produced over the past 50 years.

Like Bijou mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.

And I'm sure its not all women, but when they say they want equality, they don't want to be treated like men in all circumstances. Same job and wages, sure sounds good. But if you don't treat them like women in the dating/romance department, they'll rage. I'll stop paying for dinner, I won't hold a door open for you, I will be loud and proud with bodily noises, just like when I'm with a group of guys. You don't want to be treated any different because of your gender? You got it.


Edited, Mar 9th 2013 5:10am by xantav
#143 Mar 09 2013 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled
My apologies then.

Duly noted.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#144 Mar 09 2013 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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xantav wrote:
Like Bijou BrownDuck mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.


Exactly. The movement itself may be genuine, and I don't dismiss the justification for it, but like so many before it, it has been hijacked by mostly crazies who would use it as a platform for their own personal brand of lunacy.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#145 Mar 09 2013 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Like Bijou mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.


There's tons of feminist literature out there that doesn't come close to the things you complain about. These are fringe positions. Most feminists are neither vitriolic man-haters nor, ahem, 'men of action ' that get things done without saying a word. Saying words is central to getting things done.

This is the power of language.

Quote:
And I'm sure its not all women, but when they say they want equality, they don't want to be treated like men in all circumstances. Same job and wages, sure sounds good. But if you don't treat them like women in the dating/romance department, they'll rage. I'll stop paying for dinner, I won't hold a door open for you, I will be loud and proud with bodily noises, just like when I'm with a group of guys. You don't want to be treated any different because of your gender? You got it.


Equality implies a comparator, which is problematic even for arch-liberals in certain areas - e.g. pregnancy, where a comparison is difficult. For many, it is problematic in and of itself. This is one of many debates in feminism you'd be aware of if you'd ever read anything about it; I guarantee more has been written about this than whether all men are rapists or whatever it is, probably by a factor of thousands.

I have to say that personally, as a man, I'd prefer you not be 'loud and proud'; farting isn't funny, and being around people that think it is is a kind of purgatory. I hold doors for anyone immediately behind me, rather than slam them in their face. This is the power of courtesy.

You seem kind of angry, though, in the way you express yourself. What you see as equality in dating you set up as your kind of vengeance at women asking for equal pay. You construct 'not all women' (the majority, then) as not wanting real equality, because they haven't thought it through like you have. People might not pay for their dinner! They're going to get what they want, though.

And then they'll be sorry.
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#146 Mar 09 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
xantav wrote:
Like Bijou BrownDuck mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.


Exactly. The movement itself may be genuine, and I don't dismiss the justification for it, but like so many before it, it has been hijacked by mostly crazies who would use it as a platform for their own personal brand of lunacy.

Yeah sure. Just like the woman who wrote the article that this op started. Was her analysis crazy? Maybe, maybe not. There were some salient points. I'd call it misdirected more than anything.

Was it vitriolic? It didn't really sound that way to me.

Did you happen to notice that before this thread was derailed with rants about man-hating feminazis (the actual derail gets credited to Locke/Cid), all the women who responded to the op disagreed with her analysis?

If I decided to use Varus as my measure of masculinity (cuz he was loud and vocal and visible) and based on that measure I determined that all men were woman-haters, would I be justified in my analysis?

The 'movement' is genuine if that's what you want to call it. There are still gender inequalities that are real civil rights issues (they have nothing to do with who pays for dinner, who opens the door or even whether all men are rapists or not). If you want to discuss the topic further you might want to bone up on it a bit.









Edited, Mar 9th 2013 4:32pm by Elinda
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#147 Mar 09 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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How bout you have a more to-the-point article about feminism:
excerpt for the masses:
Julia Baird wrote:
Second, there is little we do not owe to the tireless, sometimes dangerous efforts of those who have gone before us. The debate over the word feminism can often be a distraction, but it would be timely to remind the 'I'm not a feminist BUT' women that, in history there is no "but".
If you believe you owe nothing to feminists, then best you hand your property over to your husband or father, give up your job, stop voting, renounce contraception or pain relief in childbirth, pull out of school and university and start mopping floors at home whilst begging male relatives for a dowry.
As to wanting equal treatment, plus old-fashioned courtesies on top, I should hope women behave like me and my friends: If I am first to a door, I hold it for the people behind me, and if some-one else is first, I thank them as I pass through before them. I pay for my own dinner, unless it's a date or celebration. Then the person initiating the invitation to the special date pays, whether that's the man or the woman. Birthday boys and girls never pay their own food bill.

Edited, Mar 9th 2013 10:19am by Aripyanfar
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#148 Mar 09 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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This thread was better when it was about video games.
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#149 Mar 09 2013 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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#150 Mar 09 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
It appears that some people are confused about how the gender wage gap is calculated.
I know I am. I wan to see data, that clearly accounts for women that take time off to have children. i want to see comparisons between women and men who are the primary care givers for their children, as in they're the one who stays home if a child is sick and they have no sitter. And a separate comparison for those who put their career first over their family.

I don't dispute that there's a wage gap, I just want to make sure that when we're comparing things, with all things being equal, we're actually comparing things where all things being equal.
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#151 Mar 09 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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