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Felon VotingFollow

#27 Mar 05 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
"Does it directly effect me? No? Fuck it, then."
"Oh my god, Charles Manson can't vote! What injustice!"

Does that make you feel better? Because I still don't particularly care that he can't.
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#28 Mar 05 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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"Oh my god, Charles Manson can't vote! What injustice!"

Does that make you feel better? Because I still don't particularly care that he can't.


I think an insane mass murder is clearly representative of most Felons. Really we should just make all sentences life without parole for any felony. Why would we ever want these people released? Or you know what would be more efficient? Just herding them off 40 foot drops onto concrete, then paving over it. No worry about the voting thing, and we can build a park for children to play in!
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#29 Mar 05 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
Can we at least infect them with various diseases and kill them that way? I mean as long as we're treating them like disposable flesh bags.

Or maybe hook them up to a blood donor machine, we're always short of that aren't we?
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#30 Mar 05 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
"Does it directly effect me? No? Fuck it, then."
"Oh my god, Charles Manson can't vote! What injustice!"

Does that make you feel better? Because I still don't particularly care that he can't.
Because everyone in prison is a mass murderer/cult leader, right?
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#31 Mar 05 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Or you know what would be more efficient? Just herding them off 40 foot drops onto concrete, then paving over it. No worry about the voting thing, and we can build a park for children to play in!
This is where I show, or at least pretend to show, some moral outrage at such a suggestion? I actually think it's a good idea, except that the concrete should only fill about 39 feet of that hole, and the rest be dirt and grass and stuff for the children.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Because everyone in prison is a mass murderer/cult leader, right?
So it isn't so much as felons as it is a matter of degrees for you? How about people convicted of multiple drunk driving offenses? Do they get to keep voting? Drug dealers? Pedophiles? How about if they murdered just one person? Do you guys have a list of which types felons should, and shouldn't, be allowed to vote?

Edited, Mar 5th 2013 12:19pm by lolgaxe
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#32 Mar 05 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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#33 Mar 05 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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So it isn't so much as felons as it is a matter of degrees for you? How about people convicted of multiple drunk driving offenses? Do they get to keep voting? Drug dealers? Pedophiles? How about if they murdered just one person? Do you guys have a list of which types felons should, and shouldn't, be allowed to vote?

No, which is the point. The labeling of vast segments of society to make it more convenient for you to self righteously hate them *probably* isn't as important as voting. A democracy that incarcerates *by far* the largest per capita population of it's citizens of any other free nation in the world, should be concerned with ensuring that created underclass has a voice in that democracy.

But you know, if we can label them a scary word then they don't matter, right?
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#34 Mar 05 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
No, which is the point.
I'm sorry I'm not as easily swayed by generic phrases meant to elicit a response, but again it isn't something I dwell on. If you want a specific answer, don't ask a generic question. Though, I guess those kinds of questions help people feel better about themselves.
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#35 Mar 05 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

No, which is the point. The labeling of vast segments of society to make it more convenient for you to self righteously hate them *probably* isn't as important as voting. A democracy that incarcerates *by far* the largest per capita population of it's citizens of any other free nation in the world, should be concerned with ensuring that created underclass has a voice in that democracy.

But you know, if we can label them a scary word then they don't matter, right?


Well, that's an interesting take on the matter. I didn't see his comments as "hating" so much as recognizing that when you break the law, sometimes things are taken away from you. Voting can either be one of those things, or not, and if we can accept that people who commit crimes might not actually have the best judgment - well there's a good argument for not allowing them that particular right.

Folks who commit a felony and then get locked up for it should expect some measure of their rights will be taken away. I don't see voting as such a crucial QoL issue for convicted felons.
#36 Mar 05 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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It doesn't terribly upset me that the incarcerated can't vote, although I wouldn't oppose the idea either. I haven't read enough strong arguments - or any arguments really - for either side. Although I guess the burden of argument should fall on the side that's taking a civil right away.

I do strongly support voting rights for felons who have served their time. If we've deemed them fit to be part of society, why prevent them from engaging in the philosophical basis of that society? (Not to mention that a lot of our treatment of released felons only contributes to more recidivism.1)

1. unresearched statement
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#37 Mar 05 2013 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry I'm not as easily swayed by generic phrases meant to elicit a response, but again it isn't something I dwell on. If you want a specific answer, don't ask a generic question. Though, I guess those kinds of questions help people feel better about themselves.

Yes, one of two things is happening. I, an incredibly well educated super intelligent person with a huge amount of diverse life experience was suckered into believing something based on pity and naivete. Or, you're missing something.

I am known for my overly generous nature and emotional weakness, so it's almost definitely that first one.

Don't think too hard on it, though. Just kidding, I know you won't.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#38 Mar 05 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I, an incredibly well educated super intelligent person with a huge amount of diverse life experience was suckered into believing something based on pity and naivete. Or, you're missing something.
Don't worry Wile E, I'll keep your big naive heart a secret.
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#39 Mar 05 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm a Guardian reading Brit, quasi liberal with a touch of Tory. So take my comments with a pinch of salt as you have focused on a US perspective ...

Elinda wrote:
Should convicted felons get to vote while in prison, after serving their term or ever?


Personally ...No they should not be able to vote, I believe you should pay a price for your crimes. Your freedom is being stripped from you for a reason.
From a really lazy google I have found a link about the debate going on with UK/Europe over this very matter. While it worries me that I agree with Cameron, I do.

Elinda wrote:
Could the prison vote make a difference in an election - locally, or at federal or state level?


Depends if you live beside a HUGE prison? Personally I'd be more worried about the general population makeup in the area you live in.

Elinda wrote:
Do you think a politician would ever pander to the prisoners ...perhaps while covertly trying to change laws to allow them to vote?


I've never yet seen a politician who will not pander to someone/something/someTVshow for a vote. We have some shockers in the UK, but ... I will never assume for the US ... you nearly had Palin as VP Smiley: clown
But .. saying that .. the Politician would need to be in an area with a HUGE prison to pander to the inmates ...

Elinda wrote:
What kind of leader do you think the general felon population would support, or perhaps the group is too diverse to categorize??


I cannot possibly say, I do not hang about with prisoners but I would assume they are a rich and a varied bunch.

Elinda wrote:
Edit: Another question, what's a wild estimated of the percentage of felons that would bother voting even if they could?


Those who gave a **** will. I bet those are also the ones who make it back into mainstream society.
#40 Mar 05 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
with a huge amount of diverse life experience


Coming from a middle to upper class white guy in his middle age years, this statement is almost never accurate.


Edited, Mar 5th 2013 2:30pm by BrownDuck
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#41 Mar 05 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Coming from a middle to upper class white guy in his middle age years, this statement is almost never accurate.

Almost. In my case, it's deadly accurate.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#42 Mar 05 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Watching HBO has got to count for something.
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I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#43 Mar 05 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Why not give them the opportunity for reenfranchisement if they serve a term in the military. We could use some more black people in our armed services.
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#44 Mar 05 2013 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Is this thread about felons or unpropertied men? 'Cause it's kinda hard to tell.
#45 Mar 05 2013 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Watching HBO has got to count for something.

Don't be ludicrous, we don't have television. The children, man, think of the children.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#46 Mar 05 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Don't worry, it'll be about politics soon enough.
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#47 Mar 05 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:

It doesn't terribly upset me that the incarcerated can't vote, although I wouldn't oppose the idea either. I haven't read enough strong arguments - or any arguments really - for either side. Although I guess the burden of argument should fall on the side that's taking a civil right away.


Sorry. I just had a flashback to an old comedy bit where the comedian relates the tale of some overanxious eco-type coming up to him in the supermarket and saying "Don't eat the tuna! Dolphins get caught in the nets!", and he responds "What about the tuna?"

Being put in prison constitutes a vastly greater infringement of the prisoners civil rights than not allowing him to vote. Being concerned about losing the right to vote while accepting all the other stuff he loses as a consequence of being imprisoned is like worrying about wind chafing when your parachute fails to open.

Quote:
I do strongly support voting rights for felons who have served their time.


I agree absolutely. Loss of voting rights, if imposed as part of the punishment, should be restored once the punishment/parole/probation/whatever is over.

Quote:
If we've deemed them fit to be part of society, why prevent them from engaging in the philosophical basis of that society?


Exactly.
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#48 Mar 05 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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But felons *are* productive members of society while incarcerated. They're providing jobs, and revenue for the for-profit prison industry. It's the deadbeat unemployed welfare-mooching slackers who shouldn't be allowed to vote!
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#49 Mar 05 2013 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
But felons *are* productive members of society while incarcerated. They're providing jobs, and revenue for the for-profit prison industry.


And making license plates.

(Do they still do that in prison...?)
#50 Mar 06 2013 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Coming from a middle to upper class white guy in his middle age years, this statement is almost never accurate.


We told the bee-eaters they were the wisest of us, so that they would keep eating bees.
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#51 Mar 06 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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JennockFV wrote:
I'm a Guardian reading Brit, quasi liberal with a touch of Tory. So take my comments with a pinch of salt as you have focused on a US perspective ...

Elinda wrote:
Should convicted felons get to vote while in prison, after serving their term or ever?


Personally ...No they should not be able to vote, I believe you should pay a price for your crimes. Your freedom is being stripped from you for a reason.
From a really lazy google I have found a link about the debate going on with UK/Europe over this very matter. While it worries me that I agree with Cameron, I do.

For ever after or only while serving time? It was hard to tell from Cameron's statement. I'm ok with felons losing the voting privlege while incarcerated and even while on parole (essentially while still a 'felon'). Once they've served their punishment they should be given back rights equal to anyone else. None of us are innocent beings. Most of us have broken the law, some even at the felonious level - but not been caught, or not be charged, or not been tried, or had a good lawyer and not sent to jail.

I think a proper democratic vote has to allow for human imperfection.

"We have the right to be stupid" Smiley: smile (I think I'm really digging our new SoS)
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