Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Reading to kids, do you edit?Follow

#1 Jan 23 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
So Hannah reads on her own, but I also read her a chapter of a book each night at bed time. Recently, it's been The Chronicles of Narnia. There are some anachronisms of language in the books, both with the UK specific terms and out of date cultural references. I usually read these verbatim then pause and explain "torch" means "flashlight" or "he's a brick" means "he's cool" or whatever. There's a little thinly veiled anti-Arab sentiment in the Horse and His Boy, but nothing overwhelming so I just read that verbatim and answered questions too.

The Last Battle, though, which we're currently reading, get's a little dicier. Since it's probably been a while since you've read, I'll sum up quickly. An ape tricks a donkey into wearing a lion skin and pretending to be Aslan. Using this device he joins forces with the dark skinned bad guys, the Calmorenes. Which isn't really a big deal, in and of itself, but some of the text which was probably fine in 1952 and bothered few readers is a little jarring today. There are literally exchanges where the Narnians taunt the Calmorenes by shouting "Come on, Darkie, show us what you've got" and the like. I find myself editing this to "Come on you guys", but then feel a little silly. She'll read it on her own, and there's no change I'm going to ban the book from her room or anything.

What would you do?
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#2 Jan 23 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
******
29,919 posts
You should switch to robinson crusoe. Much more culturally subtile writing in that one!
____________________________
Arch Duke Kaolian Drachensborn, lvl 95 Ranger, Unrest Server
Tech support forum | FAQ (Support) | Mobile Zam: http://m.zam.com (Premium only)
Forum Rules
#3 Jan 23 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
You should switch to robinson crusoe. Much more culturally subtile writing in that one!

We read Huck Finn, and I changed Huck to a black kid who hangs out with "Cracker Jim"
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#4 Jan 23 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
So far I've been lucky in that there doesn't need much editing in Dr. Suess. Eventually I'll probably find a line I won't cross, but at the moment I'm not sure where it is.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#5 Jan 23 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
Depends which Dr. Suess books you read, really...

http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/03/02/dr-seuss-seven-lady-godivas/
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#6 Jan 23 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
Gave Up The D
Avatar
*****
12,281 posts
I don't have any kids, but I would read the story as is and explain what the different words/meaning are and why we don't use them anymore. Not only would they learn about the past, they won't get confused/mocked in school when they try to talk about the edited version of the story.
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#7 Jan 23 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
Gave Up The D
Avatar
*****
12,281 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
Depends which Dr. Suess books you read, really...

http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/03/02/dr-seuss-seven-lady-godivas/


You should put a NSFW on that, sort of like this one.
____________________________
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
91PUP/BLM 86SMN/BST 76DRK
Cooking/Fishing 100


"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
#8 Jan 23 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
I don't have any kids, but I would read the story as is and explain what the different words/meaning are and why we don't use them anymore. Not only would they learn about the past, they won't get confused/mocked in school when they try to talk about the edited version of the story.

What's the new word that currently used to insult dark skinned people trying to invade the fair skinned North?

Also, if she gets teased because she doesn't mention "the darkies" from the Narnia books, I think I'm probably ok with that.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#9 Jan 23 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
You should put a NSFW on that, sort of like this one.

Yeah, I don't do that, sorry.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#10 Jan 23 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Doesn't seem that unsafe.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#11 Jan 23 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,593 posts
Stop reading books about furries...

Honestly though if she's reading on her own she's probably old enough for you to read it verbatim and explain the racist concepts and why they aren't acceptable/would have been put in the book. She's going to run into these concepts at school, better that she understands what is/isn't acceptable, and why, when she does. Of course, bed time, while reading a chapter of the book, may not be the most convenient time for that.

Expose and educate, unless it's mustard gas...or bed time.
#12 Jan 23 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts

Honestly though if she's reading on her own she's probably old enough for you to read it verbatim and explain the racist concepts and why they aren't acceptable/would have been put in the book. She's going to run into these concepts at school, better that she understands what is/isn't acceptable, and why, when she does. Of course, bed time, while reading a chapter of the book, may not be the most convenient time for that.


That's pretty much where I am. We always try to answer her honestly and explain things, but I don't really want to get into a discussion about race and the evolution of language over the last half century while she's falling asleep.

I do point out frequently that CS Lewis was closeted gay racist and tell her that all Christians are that way, of course. I mean there's always time for SOME lessons.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#13 Jan 23 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
Smasharoo wrote:


What would you do?
I'd read it verbatim. I'd probably not mention it further unless it seemed to be causing some confusion or concern on the kids part.









____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#14 Jan 23 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
So far I've been lucky in that there doesn't need much editing in Dr. Seuss. Eventually I'll probably find a line I won't cross, but at the moment I'm not sure where it is.


Something like that, Horton Hears a Who isn't ringing alarm bells yet. Most things just sail right over her head so I don't address things unless she asks. She's not shy about asking, but even then it can be difficult to frame a response in a way she'll understand. The wife's solution is to not sugar coat anything and just tell it as it is. It usually involves using really big words that our daughter doesn't understand yet. My daughter will shoot back a puzzled and annoyed look and then go about her life like nothing happened.

Books aren't nearly as bad as movies though, and video games for that matter. Smiley: rolleyes

____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#15 Jan 23 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
So far I've been lucky in that there doesn't need much editing in Dr. Suess. Eventually I'll probably find a line I won't cross, but at the moment I'm not sure where it is.

The Lorax apparently has a line. It was pointed out to me when I chose to read the story to my daughter's 2nd grade class.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#16 Jan 23 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Narnia? You wuss. Read her some classic Kipling stories.
How The Leopard Got His Spots wrote:
'But if I'm all this,' said the Leopard, 'why didn't you go spotty too?'

'Oh, plain black's best for a nigger,' said the Ethiopian. 'Now come along and we'll see if we can't get even with Mr. One-Two-Three-Where's-your-Breakfast!'

So they went away and lived happily ever afterward, Best Beloved. That is all.

I think I just skipped that tale entirely since the thrust of it is that Ethiopians used to be a yellowish-brown color until they turned themselves black so they could better hunt in the jungles.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Jan 23 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
I'd read it verbatim. I'd probably not mention it further unless it seemed to be causing some confusion or concern on the kids part.

Meh..I'm of that mindset, too. I don't really care if she runs around yelling "Come on darkies!" when she's playing around the house. When she's playing with her friends at school, I think it could put her in an awkward position. We have an understanding that language is a tool and there are no "bad words" if she wants to say "fuck" when it's just the two of us driving in the car, that's fine. Obviously it's not going to go over well at school, and we explain that. There haven't been any issues. The thing is in this particular context, it's easier to just edit a non story related word of phrase that will go from "hey 'darkies' is one of those words other people might get upset about if we say it, ok?" to:

"Why?"
"Because it can be mean to people with dark skin"
"Why is it mean? They do have dark skin"
"Well, would you like it I called you Lighty?"
"Yes!"
"Ok that's a bad example"
"So it's a bad word?"
"Yes, it's one of those"
"Why do the Narnians say it?"
"They're angry at the Calmorenes"
"So I can say it if I'm angry?"
"You can say it if Calmorenes invade our town and capture the talking animals"
"Hey, it's midnight."


Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 10:47am by Smasharoo
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#18 Jan 23 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
644 posts
Smasharoo wrote:

I do point out frequently that CS Lewis was closeted gay racist and tell her that all Christians are that way, of course. I mean there's always time for SOME lessons.


This is beautiful.

I would censor some things if I didn't want to waste a huge amount of time explaining them before they go to bed. I hardly think she'll be damaged by not hearing an entire C.S. Lewis book.
____________________________
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
#19 Jan 23 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
I don't recall having to censor Corduroy or Frog and Toad, though I did have to explain that the hip-hop lingo in Shark Tale was the speech of thugs and ghetto trash.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#20 Jan 23 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
Debalic wrote:
I don't recall having to censor Corduroy or Frog and Toad, though I did have to explain that the hip-hop lingo in Shark Tale was the speech of thugs and ghetto trash.
I had to do that, too, and the response I got was "That's stupid."
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#21 Jan 23 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
*****
15,952 posts
My mum read to me uncensored, then she bought me a bazillion books and let me at em, plus ALL the adult books in her rather large bookshelves. By the time I was 7 I knew a lot of very correct and exact latin words. By the time I was 9 I spoke fluent 18th and 19th century English.

All through school other kids all looked at me funny, and refused to talk to me until I'd hit 15 and I'd learned not to say anything... just reflect back.

There may have been some other things going wrong there. Still. It might be wise to tell your 5 year old that the other kids in Grade one may only understand contemporary English. Say, words that only appear in the cannon of the past decade.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 2:49pm by Aripyanfar
#22 Jan 23 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
670 posts
After finishing the Narnia series, make sure to seek out Neil Gaimans "The Problem of Susan" to put a nice happy ending on the whole series. Or traumatize your daughter.
#23 Jan 23 2013 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
Neil Gaiman wrote a follow up to the Narnia series? About susan? this I gotta see
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#24 Jan 23 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,240 posts
She's probably old enough for the old kingdom series.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#25 Jan 23 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
****
4,396 posts
Rhett reads on his own too... too much sometimes to the point that he is catching some of the things I wish he wouldn't. He also looks up songs on youtube with questionable lyrics. (especially for a three year and a half year old)

When I read to him I change the story around if he knows it...its fun to frustrate him with plot twists. I have invented a dozen endings for the lorax....
____________________________
I voted for the other guy.
#26 Jan 23 2013 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
Quote:
"You can say it if Calmorenes invade our town and capture the talking animals"


This is almost exactly what my mom would have told me.

If you're editing I think you should at least tell her you are. Not necessarily at bedtime, of course. Just say you're editing for modern usage and to make the story more pleasant for a bedtime story, and she can read it on her own when she's ready.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 117 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (117)