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#27 Jan 23 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So expect 4 more years of gridlock and nothing getting done.
Well, yeah. There are still conservatives.


If your only chance to accomplish anything is to wait until all conservatives are gone, you'll be waiting a long long time. See why Obama's approach isn't productive?
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#28 Jan 23 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
See why Obama's approach isn't productive?
I agree. The conservatives are ruining everything. Smiley: crymore
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#29 Jan 23 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
He's been playing partisan hardball for four years, and while it's gotten some things for his "side", it's cost a **** of a lot as well.


That's a lie and you know it. Smiley: disappointed

He didn't have to do squat the first two years; just sit back and let Pelosi do all the dirty work. Smiley: cool
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#30 Jan 23 2013 at 4:46 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
He's been playing partisan hardball for four years, and while it's gotten some things for his "side", it's cost a **** of a lot as well.


That's a lie and you know it. Smiley: disappointed

He didn't have to do squat the first two years; just sit back and let Pelosi do all the dirty work. Smiley: cool


Sure. Obama has shown that he is only able of getting things done when he only has to get the cooperation of people who already agree with him. He's shown absolutely zero ability to work with anyone who doesn't. Which honestly shouldn't surprise us. His entire work history consisted of working only with people who all agreed with him. He's never needed to actually win someone over to his position, nor to find common ground and agreement with those who disagreed with him in any substantial way.

I suspect he honestly doesn't know how to compromise. It's not even a matter of him not wanting to. He's like a child who's always gotten exactly what he wanted one day running into someone who says "no", and has absolutely no clue what to do at that point. He has no experience with it. The very concept of having to work with anyone who doesn't just automatically give him whatever he wants is foreign to him. So it's not surprising that partisan gridlock has been nearly absolute since he's taken office.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 2:47pm by gbaji
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#31 Jan 23 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Interestingly, the House's strategy to avoid getting primaried without completely gumming up Washington for the next two years is to just say ********** this ****" and make the Senate do all the work. Let them take all the blame.

First it was the taxes, now it's the debt ceiling. What's next, immigration reform?

This frees up the House to pander incessantly to the base back home by creating additional bills to repeal Obamacare, none of which will go anywhere.
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#32 Jan 23 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I suspect he honestly doesn't know how to compromise. It's not even a matter of him not wanting to.


I'm sure he does, I'm sure they all do. But until compromise is what gets them elected, there's no reason to sell out your supporters for the greater good. No evil empire to scare us into unity these days I suppose.
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#33 Jan 23 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If your only chance to accomplish anything is to wait until all conservatives are gone, you'll be waiting a long long time. See why Obama's approach isn't productive?

What's black and brown and blue all over? Texas, 2030.
#34 Jan 23 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I suspect he honestly doesn't know how to compromise. It's not even a matter of him not wanting to.


I'm sure he does, I'm sure they all do. But until compromise is what gets them elected, there's no reason to sell out your supporters for the greater good. No evil empire to scare us into unity these days I suppose.

Sounds like the world needs a good, alien invasion. Maybe The Borg will happen by.
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#35 Jan 23 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And while Obama was able to just barely get re-elected on his "historical president" nature this time around...

Hahahaha...

Don't worry, sport. Once they unskew the vote returns, we'll learn that Romney was actually the guy with the 4% margin and 126 more Electoral College votes.

Granted, it'll be harder for Romney to claim the title as one of only six presidents to break 51%+ in both elections.

A real squeaker Smiley: laugh
catwho wrote:
Interestingly, the House's strategy to avoid getting primaried without completely gumming up Washington for the next two years is to just say "@#%^ this sh*t" and make the Senate do all the work. Let them take all the blame.

There's talk of the GOP effectively scuttling the "Hastert Rule", that is that the Speaker won't take a bill onto the floor unless it has majority support from his own party. You saw it with the tax increase vote which was largely carried by Democrats and got only about 30% of the potential GOP votes.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 5:16pm by Jophiel
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#36 Jan 23 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
Interestingly, the House's strategy to avoid getting primaried without completely gumming up Washington for the next two years is to just say "@#%^ this sh*t" and make the Senate do all the work. Let them take all the blame.


After the 50th time they've passed a budget bill to the Senate and had Harry Reid simply ignore it and not put it on the schedule for a vote, what do you expect them to do? At some point, you kinda have to point to the other guy and ask "Ok. If you don't like my ideas, what ideas do you have?".

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First it was the taxes, now it's the debt ceiling. What's next, immigration reform?


It's pretty much anything of consequence. The hold up in our congress is not in the House. It's in the Senate. The Dems have realized that any solution they propose will cost them votes by moderates or votes by liberals, so they've chosen to just not do anything at all. By not voting they aren't held to any position on anything. Failing to govern has become their best course of action.

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This frees up the House to pander incessantly to the base back home by creating additional bills to repeal Obamacare, none of which will go anywhere.


If those were the only bills not going anywhere in the Senate, you'd have a point.
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#37 Jan 23 2013 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The hold up in our congress is not in the House. It's in the Senate.

As soon as the GOP starts allowing straight up-or-down 51% votes in the Senate, this statement will carry some weight.
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#38 Jan 23 2013 at 5:54 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The hold up in our congress is not in the House. It's in the Senate.

As soon as the GOP starts allowing straight up-or-down 51% votes in the Senate, this statement will carry some weight.


I'll take that seriously the second you find me a post from yourself on this forum arguing to remove the filibuster dated anytime between 2001 and 2005. Until then, can we safely assume that this is complete BS?


I'll also point out that these are bills passed by the GOP in the House and handed to the Senate. The question of a filibuster (by the GOP) isn't relevant. The reason Reid doesn't want these coming to a vote is because it would force his own party members to have to vote on the record against balancing the budget, or cutting taxes, or whatever other publicly popular things the GOP is proposing but the Democrats don't want to pass. The reality is that the bills the GOP is passing in the House have greater public support than what the Dems are doing right now. But the Dems don't want to appear to be the ones blocking the will of the people, so they just don't bring them to a vote and hope no one notices.

It's not a filibuster thing. It's a "we don't want to be seen on the record opposing what the people want, cause it'll cost us votes" thing. The Democrats aren't governing, they are campaigning. And that's why nothing is getting done. There are hard choices which need to be made, and they've realized that they look better by doing nothing at all than by taking any position at all on those choices. That's why nothing has gotten done.
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#39 Jan 23 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji wrote:
And that's why nothing is getting done.


Nothing was and is still getting done because the main platform for the republican party was ********** Obama lets not vote on anything". Just over 200 bills passed through congress in the last 2 years. That is atrocious. It amazes me that you can be that willfully ignorant of the ***** ups your party makes and the crap you eat up that they feed you. Smiley: confused
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#40 Jan 23 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
It amazes me that you can be that willfully ignorant
Does it? Does it really?
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#41 Jan 23 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'll take that seriously the second you find me a post from yourself on this forum arguing to remove the filibuster dated anytime between 2001 and 2005.

Given that the forum doesn't date back prior to 2004 that might be a bit tricky. But I did have this post from 2005 saying I was pleased that moderate Democrats would not support a filibuster of Bush's Supreme Court nominees.

But I know you really need this and you have to make sure I look all partisan on the issue to cover for your own inadequacies so you'll say how that doesn't count and proves nothing, etc. The truth is I've never been a fan of the filibuster and have always supported its reform/elimination since I've been politically aware.

As much as you want to pretend that "it's a Senate thing!", you're the one trying to compare a governing body that merely requires a 51% vote to one that effectively requires a 60% vote and attempting to pin the blame on the latter. You can try and spin that in any direction you want and it'll still come out sounding silly.
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#42 Jan 23 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Criminy wrote:
It amazes me that you can be that willfully ignorant
Does it? Does it really?


Sadly it does. Smiley: frown I should also note that it amazes me that I am stupid enough to think that Gbaji will eventually realize what a moron he is.
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#43 Jan 24 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
The truth is I've never been a fan of the filibuster and have always supported its reform/elimination since I've been politically aware.


Really? I kind of like the stabilizing effect it has. It makes it harder to do anything too stupid too quickly.
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#44 Jan 24 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
It makes it harder to do anything

Edited down to the actual part that matters.

Legislation is intended to pass the Senate with 51 votes (or 50+VP), not 60 votes which has become the norm. ****, media doesn't even bother to report on the filibusters anymore. They just say "Such and such bill failed in the Senate with only 55 votes" as though that's the norm. I guess these days it is the new norm. But it shouldn't be.
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#45 Jan 24 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I do wish there was more they could do with 51 votes sometimes, or that the filibuster was used more sparingly. Still without a centrist party to negotiate with a super-majority is one of those things that helps ensure what is done has the approval of more of the public.

I'm imaging a 51 vote majority making it easier to get something through all 3 houses. Which means more changes and work gets done, but at the same time you'll just end up spinning your wheels when the balance shifts and the new congress passes bill after bill quickly undoing all the work of the previous administration.

I suppose in the end I blame the problems with breaking through to 60 votes more of a symptom of a hyper-partisan congress, and not as something which needs changing.

If that makes any sense...
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#46 Jan 24 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I'm imaging a 51 vote majority making it easier to get something through all 3 houses. Which means more changes and work gets done, but at the same time you'll just end up spinning your wheels when the balance shifts and the new congress passes bill after bill quickly undoing all the work of the previous administration.

It doesn't really happen that way anyway. And if the balance has shifted to the extent that both chambers of Congress and the Executive branch have majorities opposed to what came a year or two before, well, there's probably a good reason for it and it's what the public wants. Not to have 41 Senators out of a hundred block it from happening.

I won't say it never has a place which is why I said "reform or eliminate", just that it's used far too often (needless to say, especially as of late). If I had to make a binary choice between "Keep the barrier for legislation at 60 votes" or "Do away with the filibuster entirely", I'd easily choose the latter.
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#47 Jan 24 2013 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like them to at least bring back the "you have to filibuster to filibuster" part.
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#48 Jan 25 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I won't say it never has a place which is why I said "reform or eliminate", just that it's used far too often (needless to say, especially as of late). If I had to make a binary choice between "Keep the barrier for legislation at 60 votes" or "Do away with the filibuster entirely", I'd easily choose the latter.

I wouldn't. Minority party power is an important check against wild swings in legislation from congress to congress. Even though it's also used for occasional rampant douchebaggery, it's far too import to eliminate. The modern parliamentary process is ****** and corrupt, but the 60 vote threshold isn't why.
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#49 Jan 25 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd like them to at least bring back the "you have to filibuster to filibuster" part.

I hear that sentiment a lot, but I'm not really sure why. Do you really think 40 Senators are going to run out of stuff to talk about to prevent cloture?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#50 Jan 25 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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Of course not. They could read the phone book from downtown Hong Kong for all I care. Just something more than "We're going to filibuster, who wants Quisnos?"
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#51 Jan 25 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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No pay while filibustering.
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