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#52 Jan 10 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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They made that look so easy... Smiley: mad
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#53 Jan 10 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Guenny wrote:
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They're thanking the sun for their lives Monday thru Friday and on Sunday mornings they go to church and thank God for their lives. That could be a bit contradictory to some, pure blasphemy to others.


I understand your point, but this is what I'm talking about. What the f*ck is wrong with thanking the sun?
Um, It's inanimate. Is the sun going to treat you better, maybe bless you with robust pigment if you tell it 'thank you' every morning?

What is there to gain in thanking the sun?


Well, not having critically low levels of vitamin D, for one thing.
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#54 Jan 10 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Praise the sun!
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#55 Jan 10 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm with George Carlin on this one; the sun is a pretty nifty god. Better than Capital G God, at least. And Danny DeVito answers prayers at about the same rate.

Alas, the problem is still giving thanks to a non-sentient (but at least conclusively existing) entity.
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#56 Jan 10 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
Elinda, have you ever even taken a yoga class before? Ashtanga yoga is pretty generic, there's not much of any actual talking going on, as opposed to Kundalini yoga which has a lot of chanting in Sanskrit (supposedly). It really would not be that difficult for anyone to think of Jesus while doing their poses, if that's what they wanted to do.
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#57 Jan 10 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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It really would not be that difficult for anyone to think of Jesus while doing their poses, if that's what they wanted to do.

That misses the point. You can think of Jesus during math class but that doesn't make it okay for the instructor to add a spiritual/religious aspect to algebra.
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#58 Jan 10 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda, have you ever even taken a yoga class before? Ashtanga yoga is pretty generic, there's not much of any actual talking going on, as opposed to Kundalini yoga which has a lot of chanting in Sanskrit (supposedly). It really would not be that difficult for anyone to think of Jesus while doing their poses, if that's what they wanted to do.

We're all familiar with Yoga, Stands With a Confused Expression, but thanks for tip.
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#59 Jan 10 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
Yeah a lot of smart asses *think* they know about yoga, but until you actually take a few classes you don't.
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#60 Jan 10 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah a lot of smart asses *think* they know about yoga, but until you actually take a few classes you don't.

I have. In Jalandhar. I'm sure I probably missed something you learned at the fucking Clackamas mall, though.
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#61 Jan 10 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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You stretch, contort yourself, meditate, then praise then sun or something?
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#62 Jan 10 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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the fuc[b]king Clackamas mall, though.


Clackamas Town Center, get it right! Yeesh Smiley: lol
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#63 Jan 10 2013 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah a lot of smart asses *think* they know about yoga, but until you actually take a few classes you don't.

At these classes, do they teach you how to evade a point no matter how many times it's tossed your way?

And I'll have you know I'm fully trained and unlocked on the Wii Fit balance board under the Yoga training.

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 3:07pm by Jophiel
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#64 Jan 10 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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If your position on the issue would change if we replaced the Sun Salutation with the Sign of the Cross, it's a good bet you should reconsider your position.
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#65 Jan 10 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe they do it different on the west coast but the sign of the cross isn't very aerobic Smiley: grin
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#66 Jan 10 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
If your position on the issue would change if we replaced the Sun Salutation with the Sign of the Cross, it's a good bet you should reconsider your position.


Once again you fail to understand the basics and pull random facts from your **** to contort reality to Gbaji-land. One is series of stretches that can easily be detached from any sort of religious undertone and the other is a highly religious gesture that is not only an activity that is impossible to separate from its religious undertone but is as far from physical education as one can possibly get.
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#67 Jan 10 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Criminy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If your position on the issue would change if we replaced the Sun Salutation with the Sign of the Cross, it's a good bet you should reconsider your position.


Once again you fail to understand the basics and pull random facts from your **** to contort reality to Gbaji-land. One is series of stretches that can easily be detached from any sort of religious undertone and the other is a highly religious gesture that is not only an activity that is impossible to separate from its religious undertone but is as far from physical education as one can possibly get.


If neither of us had ever heard of the Sign of the Cross, and someone did it, would we assume it was religious in nature? It's a series of motions done with the body. Period. It's no different than waving, or a salute for that matter. Yet we don't assume a religious undertone with those? A **** salute has a specific connotation to you and I, but there's nothing inherent in the salute other than our own associations (and they aren't religious in this case either).

I'm just pointing out how arbitrary some of our interpretations can be. What if it was an Islamic prayer position instead? That's got some stretching involved. Is that ok as long as we just don't tell people that doing this stretching exercise, while facing a specific direction is also a religious act? Does ignorance make it ok? At the end of the day, that particular stretch, the prayer pose at beginning and ending, and every step in between were created to fulfill a physical act of prayer. In this case, to the Sun. Does just not telling people what the exercise's true meaning is make it ok?


I'm not even taking a firm position here. Just pointing out that things aren't nearly as cut and dried as some people seem to like to think.
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#68 Jan 10 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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A **** salute has a specific connotation to you and I

The connotation to me is that we changed how we saluted the flag from a reasonable sort of arm pointing towards the object we're saluting to this hand and heart **** That and photos of kids from the 30s saluting the flag like this one:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/Main.Ben/Rv6iKlF22ZI/AAAAAAAAAvY/hhdcK_oHdkA/s400/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

Make me laugh.
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#69 Jan 10 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Gbaji wrote:
What if it was an Islamic prayer position instead? That's got some stretching involved.

Yeah compared to the Sign of the Cross example you used earlier it does have some stretching. You are a fool if you think a raka'ah is appropriate in a physical education class. Kids do more stretching getting out of bed than what is performed during that.
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Does ignorance make it ok? At the end of the day, that particular stretch, the prayer pose at beginning and ending, and every step in between were created to fulfill a physical act of prayer.

Hiding behind ignorance doesn't make standing against it valiant, it just makes you look like an uneducated fool. The prayer pose you recognize is a sign of respect and greeting. The Sun Salutation is just a small part of yoga, you do know what yoga is right? I am not surprised though that you will be so willfully ignorant of another culture. Another day in the land of Gbaji huh?

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 6:16pm by Criminy
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#70 Jan 10 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
A **** salute has a specific connotation to you and I

The connotation to me is that we changed how we saluted the flag from a reasonable sort of arm pointing towards the object we're saluting to this hand and heart bullsh*t. That and photos of kids from the 30s saluting the flag like this one:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/Main.Ben/Rv6iKlF22ZI/AAAAAAAAAvY/hhdcK_oHdkA/s400/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

Make me laugh.


Yeah. I almost mentioned the same point myself. It's perception though, isn't it? We somewhat arbitrarily decide one thing is religious in nature and thus must be banned from public school, while some other thing isn't. Then we wonder why people raise issues like this.
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#71 Jan 10 2013 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Criminy wrote:
The prayer pose you recognize is a sign of respect and greeting.


This is purely your own interpretation though (and an incredibly selective one). If a Catholic priest walked up to you and stood with legs together and hands clasped in exactly the same yoga pose, you'd assume it was religious in nature, right? But a yoga instructor does the same thing, and it's not? Why? Doubly so when the poses were created specifically as part of prayer rituals for a real religion. It's no different. You've just arbitrarily decided that eastern spiritualism doesn't count as a 'real religion" within the context of US separation of Church and State, while western faiths (like Catholicism) do count.

It's arbitrary and purely within your own mind. There is nothing more or less inherently religious about saying 5 Hail Mary's versus performing a yoga series like the Sun Salutation. Nothing at all. The fact that one prayer takes the form of a series of physical actions designed to bring you closer to your spiritual goals, while the other is a chanted series of words designed to do the same really shouldn't matter at all.
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#72 Jan 10 2013 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Criminy wrote:
The prayer pose you recognize is a sign of respect and greeting.


This is purely your own interpretation though (and an incredibly selective one). If a Catholic priest walked up to you and stood with legs together and hands clasped in exactly the same yoga pose, you'd assume it was religious in nature, right? But a yoga instructor does the same thing, and it's not? Why? Doubly so when the poses were created specifically as part of prayer rituals for a real religion. It's no different. You've just arbitrarily decided that eastern spiritualism doesn't count as a 'real religion" within the context of US separation of Church and State, while western faiths (like Catholicism) do count.


I hope you have your thinking cap on because I am about to blow your mind. Ready for it?

If I saw a priest come up to me and greet me with hands clasped in the exact same yoga pose I would recognize it as a symbol of respect. *boom* There are no double standards being held here. Also I would appreciate it if you stop assuming wild things about me. I recognize all religious as being equal. The fact that I can see the medical benifits behind yoga and how it gives children a way to get exercise without the constant competitions that are traditionally taught says more than the people who are so blinded by the beliefs that they would rather watch their children suffer than to grow as individuals.

Gbaji wrote:
It's arbitrary and purely within your own mind. There is nothing more or less inherently religious about saying 5 Hail Mary's versus performing a yoga series like the Sun Salutation. Nothing at all. The fact that one prayer takes the form of a series of physical actions designed to bring you closer to your spiritual goals, while the other is a chanted series of words designed to do the same really shouldn't matter at all.


In Gbaji-land doing 5 Hail Mary's = the Sun Salutation. In reality the Sun Salutation is a series of yoga moves originating in India. Widely adopted across the globe for the health benefits it provides. Although I suppose you got a friend in Albert Mohler, a southern baptist (and a bit of a nutter) believes that yoga is, and I quote.
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When Christians practice yoga, they must either deny the reality of what yoga represents or fail to see the contradictions between their Christian commitments and their embrace of yoga.

He also says gems like this about Hinduism, Islam, and Buddhism.
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demonstration[s] of satanic power

And probably my favorite quote of all.
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But the fact remains that though childlessness may be made possible by the contraceptive revolution, it remains a form of rebellion against God's design and order.

On the bright side, at lest you are not alone on the crazy train. Smiley: laugh
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#73 Jan 10 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Criminy wrote:
If I saw a priest come up to me and greet me with hands clasped in the exact same yoga pose I would recognize it as a symbol of respect. *boom* There are no double standards being held here.


Except for the one where many people are fine with a yoga instructor teaching children in public school to use that pose, but would absolutely oppose a Catholic priest doing the exact same thing.

Quote:
I recognize all religious as being equal.


So you agree that both are religious in nature? So we should not bar one from public school while allowing the other, right?

Quote:
The fact that I can see the medical benifits behind yoga and how it gives children a way to get exercise without the constant competitions that are traditionally taught says more than the people who are so blinded by the beliefs that they would rather watch their children suffer than to grow as individuals.


Believe it or not, I have absolutely no problem with kids in public school being taught yoga. I'm simply saying that I can understand where some people might be coming from with regard to the alleged double standard. For me, it's more a point of the absurdity of trying to identify "religious" things and keep them out of "public" things. There's always going to be silly edge cases like this.

Quote:
Gbaji wrote:
It's arbitrary and purely within your own mind. There is nothing more or less inherently religious about saying 5 Hail Mary's versus performing a yoga series like the Sun Salutation. Nothing at all. The fact that one prayer takes the form of a series of physical actions designed to bring you closer to your spiritual goals, while the other is a chanted series of words designed to do the same really shouldn't matter at all.


In Gbaji-land doing 5 Hail Mary's = the Sun Salutation.


Not equal. But both are prayers. The fact that many people repeat the Sun Salutation prayer without believing that the Sun is a divine force in the world does not change that fact. I doubt very much that the whole "you don't have to believe in God to recite the prayer" bit would fly, do you? See where the double standard comes from?

Quote:
In reality the Sun Salutation is a series of yoga moves originating in India.


As part of a spiritual tradition. It is a prayer in physical form. Period. That you perform the prayer by motions of the body instead of words doesn't change what it is. Reciting prayers is great speech exercise btw, but I don't think that would fly in public school either.

Quote:
Widely adopted across the globe for the health benefits it provides.


So wide adoption makes a difference? Should we compare the number of people in the world who can recite the Hail Mary versus those who can perform the Sun Salutation? Both are still ultimately prayers. That's why they were created. That they have other properties as well should not change that fact.

Quote:
Although I suppose you got a friend in Albert Mohler...


Someone I've never heard of, so whatever. I could imagine you're friends with someone I can hold up as a strawman as well, but I'm not going to because it's a really stupid means of debate.

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 4:37pm by gbaji
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#74 Jan 10 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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#75 Jan 10 2013 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, the "Islamic prayer position" is a yoga pose, called "Child's pose" - it's the default resting position in yoga. It's what you do when the instructor has the advanced people doing a split after you've just sweated your way through lunges.

The sun salutation series I was taught involved stretching on your tippy toes, as if reaching up to grab the sun, then swinging your arms wide open, doing a half squat, half plié, crossing your arms in front of you, and then bringing the hands together in what any Christian would recognize as a prayer position, but is really just where you put your hands at the end of a sun salutation sequence.

And then doing that 99 more times. It's the aerobic part of a yoga workout, before you settle into the deeper stretches and chill out bits.

I don't recall ever breaking out into a sweat after making the sign of the cross, nor being asked to do it a hundred times in a row. (Hail Maries, on the other hand...)
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#76 Jan 10 2013 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
I don't recall ever breaking out into a sweat after making the sign of the cross, nor being asked to do it a hundred times in a row. (Hail Maries, on the other hand...)


So if there was a religious practice in Christianity which required sufficient physical exertion to make you sweat, you'd be ok with it being taught in public school? Let's pretend for the sake of argument that some group of 15th century monks came up with a dance routine representing some form of prayer (maybe a dance version of the 12 stations of the cross). Would you be ok with it being taught in public school because it also happened to be a good form of exercise?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most people would automatically be opposed to it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. So, assuming that's the case, what really is the difference other than that you are more familiar with the religious practices and prayers of Christianity than those of Hinduism? Are we supposed to make an exception for religious practices if they're ones that we're not familiar with? That seems a bit irrational as a means to make this determination. So what if we're ok with the yoga moves now, but in 20 years it becomes more commonly understood to be a spiritual practice associated with Hinduism. Does it then become a violation of the separation of church and state?


Is it just what we think something is that matters? Or what it really is? And isn't this all kinda silly to begin with?
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#77 Jan 10 2013 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
catwho wrote:
I don't recall ever breaking out into a sweat after making the sign of the cross, nor being asked to do it a hundred times in a row. (Hail Maries, on the other hand...)


So if there was a religious practice in Christianity which required sufficient physical exertion to make you sweat, you'd be ok with it being taught in public school? Let's pretend for the sake of argument that some group of 15th century monks came up with a dance routine representing some form of prayer (maybe a dance version of the 12 stations of the cross). Would you be ok with it being taught in public school because it also happened to be a good form of exercise?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most people would automatically be opposed to it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. So, assuming that's the case, what really is the difference other than that you are more familiar with the religious practices and prayers of Christianity than those of Hinduism? Are we supposed to make an exception for religious practices if they're ones that we're not familiar with? That seems a bit irrational as a means to make this determination. So what if we're ok with the yoga moves now, but in 20 years it becomes more commonly understood to be a spiritual practice associated with Hinduism. Does it then become a violation of the separation of church and state?

Is it just what we think something is that matters? Or what it really is? And isn't this all kinda silly to begin with?


I'd be okay with it if it was being taught as exercise, sure. Just like I'd be okay with the kids dancing around to Richard Simmons, even though I'm sure some paranoid parents would worry about their sons turning **** over it.
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#78 Jan 10 2013 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:

I'd be okay with it if it was being taught as exercise, sure. Just like I'd be okay with the kids dancing around to Richard Simmons, even though I'm sure some paranoid parents would worry about their sons turning **** over it.

Please, think of the children.
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#79 Jan 11 2013 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah a lot of smart asses *think* they know about yoga, but until you actually take a few classes you don't.

I have. In Jalandhar. I'm sure I probably missed something you learned at the fucking Clackamas mall, though.


I've never taken any classes at the Clackamas Town Mall. Smiley: tongue All the classes I've taken have been through my University. One of which was taught by one of the original students of Yogi Sivananda. She was one of the coolest old ladies I have ever met.
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#80 Jan 11 2013 at 3:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are we really bickering over who has the best yoga credentials?

A new low, perhaps.
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#81 Jan 11 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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I'm self taught ****


Smiley: tongue






Edited, Jan 11th 2013 2:14pm by Elinda
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#82 Jan 11 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are we really bickering over who has the best yoga credentials?

I was one of the first students of Yogi Bear.
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#83 Jan 11 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Are we really bickering over who has the best yoga credentials?

I was one of the first students of Yogi Bear.

Smarter than the average bear....
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#85 Jan 11 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Except for the one where many people are fine with a yoga instructor teaching children in public school to use that pose, but would absolutely oppose a Catholic priest doing the exact same thing.
I'd be fairly wary of a Catholic priest teaching stretching exercises to children.
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#86 Jan 11 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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I vote yes, as long as they also view some good Hitchslap in their Socratic period after lunch.
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#87 Jan 11 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
I see nothing wrong with yoga in school.

In fact, I'm a bit peeved the yoga pants weren't already in fashion when I was getting my learn on.
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#88 Jan 11 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Are we really bickering over who has the best yoga credentials?

I was one of the first students of Yogi Bear.

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#89 Jan 12 2013 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
Kavekk wrote:
Are we really bickering over who has the best yoga credentials?

A new low, perhaps.


When you put it like that, this does seem pretty stupid. Smiley: lol
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#90 Jan 12 2013 at 2:40 AM Rating: Good
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Like all of this or just the parts that are obviously stupid?
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#91 Jan 12 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Praise the sun!
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#92 Jan 12 2013 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
Well, I think the whole thing is ridiculously stupid, but I was referring specifically to the fighting over who has better yoga qualifications.
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#93 Jan 14 2013 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Well, I think the whole thing is ridiculously stupid, but I was referring specifically to the fighting over who has better yoga qualifications.


I think we'd need to see your qualifications for making that determination.
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