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Vigilantism & AnonymousFollow

#1 Jan 04 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Came across this just now:

Last summer, a 16-year-old girl got drunk and passed out at a house party before being attacked by Steubenville High athletes Trent Mays and Ma’lik Richmond. They took multiple explicit photos with their cellphones and even carried the victim to other parties, assaulting her repeatedly over the span of several hours.

It gets worse.

Apparently several of the high school’s athletes were involved. Though they weren’t charged along with Mays and Richmond, they did call themselves “the rape crew” and helped take and disseminate the photos. Anonymous staged protests and threatened to expose the boys–publishing names, social security numbers, addresses, relatives, and phone numbers–if they didn’t apologize by January 1st.

It’s January 2nd, which brings us to this astonishing 12-minute video of intoxicated Steubenville high school athletes ridiculing the victim.

All 12 minutes center around the group’s drunken jeering, though the main speaker is identified by the video’s poster as Michael Nodianos. Watch as they crack themselves up at the idea of the victim being dead: deader than a “doornail,” “deader than” JFK, Chris Henry, OJ’s wife, Caylee Anthony, and Trayvon Martin, amongst others.

“She is so raped,” Nodianos adds, “Her puss is about as dry as the sun right now.”


Following the links, I eventually arrived at:

http://localleaks.blogs.ru/

This is all very disgusting. I don't like the "power" Anonymous seems to wield, mostly because of the knowledge that anyone they disagree with may become a target, without consideration for due process or justice, but in some cases, like this one, I find myself willing to suspend my distaste for their vigilante ways.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#2 Jan 04 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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That article is light on details but, if you have evidence that someone was an accessory to a crime, wouldn't you pass it along to the authorities?
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#3 Jan 04 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
.... but in some cases, like this one, I find myself willing to suspend my distaste for their vigilante ways.
This story, as presented here, is a product of Anonymous.

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#4 Jan 04 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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You don't like the "power" that an anonymous group of internet users who are primarily teenage boys wields? You do realize that by impeding any of their "power" you'll be taking away basic liberties that the rest of us have that they just use to their advantage. The fact that you are NOT "anonymous" on the internet anymore is kind of their point, it's not really their fault that all of this information is readily available to them.

The day they harass the wrong person (not gonna happen, they're nerds), or seriously harass someone for something nonviolent I will be less supportive. As it stands, most of these kids are boys who put up with being bullied and abused in their real lives, so when they have the opportunity to stand up for the underdogcat or the girl who was brutally raped by jocks who were given impunity for their actions, they will. I think the whole phenomenon is kind of interesting really.

For the record, anyone "anonymous" on the internet can "dox" you, so you're afraid of boogeymen, Stubs. Guy Fawkes boogeymen.
#5 Jan 04 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's a lengthier account of the whole thing which I have yet to fully read:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/01/inside-anonymous-hacking-file-steubenville-rape-crew/60502/
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#6 Jan 04 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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A problem I can see arising is that Anonymous may use illegal hacking to produce evidence that will then be called inadmissible in court. Even if the police get a warrant and get that evidence themselves, it could be argued that they only had reason to search because of the prior illegal search (i.e. fruit of the poisoned tree).

I don't know if Anonymous has done anything like that in this case, but it seems like a pretty likely scenario that could happen.

I think there have been cases where evidence stemming from illegal citizen searches has been admitted, so long as that citizen was not acting as an agent of the police. But who knows how courts may interpret it in the future.
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#7 Jan 04 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
A problem I can see arising is that Anonymous may use illegal hacking to produce evidence that will then be called inadmissible in court. Even if the police get a warrant and get that evidence themselves, it could be argued that they only had reason to search because of the prior illegal search (i.e. fruit of the poisoned tree).

That's true. Good point.
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#8 Jan 04 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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This is in reference to a random guy with 'ties' to a couple of the football players....
Quote:
Anonymous quickly took control of his web servers, and proceeded to deface the front page of his website. Knight Sec then when a step further, and gained control over Mr. Parks private E-Mail account, and downloaded much of it’s contents.
So, yeah, they could be messing up evidence, but they're also hacking and probably slandering. But beyond that they're not simply investigating for facts and making them public. They are presenting their story. that's cool for story time, but not very unhelpful for me or any other public jane that comes in contact with this and then feels inclined to make some sort of a judgement call.

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#9 Jan 04 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Guenny wrote:
You don't like the "power" that an anonymous group of internet users who are primarily teenage boys wields? You do realize that by impeding any of their "power" you'll be taking away basic liberties that the rest of us have that they just use to their advantage. The fact that you are NOT "anonymous" on the internet anymore is kind of their point, it's not really their fault that all of this information is readily available to them.

The day they harass the wrong person (not gonna happen, they're nerds), or seriously harass someone for something nonviolent I will be less supportive. As it stands, most of these kids are boys who put up with being bullied and abused in their real lives, so when they have the opportunity to stand up for the underdogcat or the girl who was brutally raped by jocks who were given impunity for their actions, they will. I think the whole phenomenon is kind of interesting really.

For the record, anyone "anonymous" on the internet can "dox" you, so you're afraid of boogeymen, Stubs. Guy Fawkes boogeymen.


That's bound to happen. Just sayin'.

Edited, Jan 4th 2013 1:30pm by Eske
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#10 Jan 04 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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On the one hand, the tactics that Anonymous employs are often sketchy and in a legal gray area.

On the other hand, those athletes deserve to be named and shamed. This is the "rape culture" that feminists are complaining about at its worst, and most of these morons deserve to be in jail for assault. Do not pass go, do not collect college athletic scholarships. I believe in a meritocracy, but being of good sound and moral character is part of a meritocracy as well. This behavior is anything but and their careers as athletes should (and probably will) dead end into becoming water boys.
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#11 Jan 04 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Guenny wrote:
You don't like the "power" that an anonymous group of internet users who are primarily teenage boys wields? You do realize that by impeding any of their "power" you'll be taking away basic liberties that the rest of us have that they just use to their advantage. The fact that you are NOT "anonymous" on the internet anymore is kind of their point, it's not really their fault that all of this information is readily available to them.

The day they harass the wrong person (not gonna happen, they're nerds), or seriously harass someone for something nonviolent I will be less supportive. As it stands, most of these kids are boys who put up with being bullied and abused in their real lives, so when they have the opportunity to stand up for the underdogcat or the girl who was brutally raped by jocks who were given impunity for their actions, they will. I think the whole phenomenon is kind of interesting really.

For the record, anyone "anonymous" on the internet can "dox" you, so you're afraid of boogeymen, Stubs. Guy Fawkes boogeymen.


That's bound to happen. Just sayin'.


Exactly What Eske said.

Also, Guenny, there's a reason I put "power" in quotes. I'm aware they're just a bunch of computer geeks with (mostly) limited internet data gathering skills. But there is a small core of people who would use illegal methods to obtain information on their "targets", and these are the people that I have issues with. It's quote OK to use the power of voice to unravel a coverup or shed light on a political scandal, but hacking personal accounts and exposing private information obtained illegally for all the world to see is unnecessary in any case.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#12 Jan 04 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Guenny wrote:
The day they harass the wrong person (not gonna happen, they're nerds), or seriously harass someone for something nonviolent I will be less supportive.
That's bound to happen. Just sayin'.

They already hack and harass government agencies and organizations solely because they don't agree with them. There's no "justice" in hacking the RIAA or something just because you don't like the way they engage in copyright enforcement.
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#13 Jan 04 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
That article is light on details but, if you have evidence that someone was an accessory to a crime, wouldn't you pass it along to the authorities?

CNN wrote:
On Thursday, the police chief who initially investigated the case, before the Jefferson County prosecutor asked state officials to step in, said he doesn't expect much additional evidence to surface in the case.

"You can come up with conspiracy theories and everything, but for prosecutors to take a case to trial, you have to have substantial evidence, you have to have evidence that can be presented. And in this case, I don't believe there is much more," Steubenville police Chief William McCafferty said.

He said he believes his town, and his force, have been portrayed unfairly.

"I think they have made our community look like something that its not. It's a very good community," he said. "Nobody condones rape, nobody condones lawlessness."
But McCafferty also said he's puzzled why no one intervened in the alleged assaults.

"Why didn't somebody stop it?" he said. "You simply don't do that. ... It's not done."


Obviously he might have just misspoke, but it seems like the police of chief is effectively saying "If it was actually rape, someone would have stepped in to stop it. Since they didn't, I'm not convinced it was." Maybe I'm reading it wrong? But if those are his true feelings, I'm not surprised that no one else has been charged (right now, only 2 football players have been charged). If that's not a "rape culture" issue in and of itself, it's pretty obvious that some of these kids (or at least their peers) are fine with joking about rape. Sure, they're teenagers... but that's still pretty messed up. Someone who says something like:
Is pretty sick in the head.

Edited, Jan 4th 2013 3:32pm by LockeColeMA
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#14 Jan 04 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is speculation that the entire thing was a set up from her ex boyfriend, whom she had broken up with a month prior, and that a date rape drug was involved which is why she was completely blacked out the entire time.
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#15 Jan 04 2013 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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From the CNN article someone linked:

Quote:
The controversy has shaken the city, with some residents accusing outsiders of trying to ruin the reputation of the town's high school football team, one of the few bright spots in the economically depressed community of 18,000.


Really? You're going to defend the situation by alleging a smear campaign against the HS football team? Considering the allegation is that the HS football team's presence in the town is EXACTLY why it's being covered up in the first place, that's a pretty bold deflection.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#16 Jan 04 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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Only a 3 hour drive from Penn State University to Steubenville, OH.
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#17 Jan 04 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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All I can hear is Ed Bundy muttering, "I played high school football."
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#18 Jan 04 2013 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Guenny wrote:
You don't like the "power" that an anonymous group of internet users who are primarily teenage boys wields? You do realize that by impeding any of their "power" you'll be taking away basic liberties that the rest of us have that they just use to their advantage. The fact that you are NOT "anonymous" on the internet anymore is kind of their point, it's not really their fault that all of this information is readily available to them.

The day they harass the wrong person (not gonna happen, they're nerds), or seriously harass someone for something nonviolent I will be less supportive. As it stands, most of these kids are boys who put up with being bullied and abused in their real lives, so when they have the opportunity to stand up for the underdogcat or the girl who was brutally raped by jocks who were given impunity for their actions, they will. I think the whole phenomenon is kind of interesting really.

For the record, anyone "anonymous" on the internet can "dox" you, so you're afraid of boogeymen, Stubs. Guy Fawkes boogeymen.


That's bound to happen. Just sayin'.


Exactly What Eske said.

Also, Guenny, there's a reason I put "power" in quotes. I'm aware they're just a bunch of computer geeks with (mostly) limited internet data gathering skills. But there is a small core of people who would use illegal methods to obtain information on their "targets", and these are the people that I have issues with. It's quote OK to use the power of voice to unravel a coverup or shed light on a political scandal, but hacking personal accounts and exposing private information obtained illegally for all the world to see is unnecessary in any case.


An additional problem is that the targeting of such "justice" is selective and even arbitrary. It is more like a mob mentality than real justice IMO. You target what you learn about and which offends you. You then dig up more bad info about that target, increasing the anger and hatred. Then you release this on the world. But who decides which people get targeted in the first place? Who decides that this college prank gets a pass (or never gets noticed) while another one doesn't and the perpetrators are brutalized in the public eye? It's somewhat random, right?

No matter how deserving of that brutalization we may view this particular group, there are centuries of criminal justice history which show us why it's a very good reason to have things like search and seizure laws, and evidence rules, and assumption of innocence, and procedural restrictions, and a host of other things which ensure that our justice is not only fair, but also fairly applied (as much as possible). When you throw those things out the window, then justice becomes less about finding and punishing those who commit crimes, but targeting those you don't like and finding things to punish them for. It's not much of a step to go from "Someone sent us some info about this group of douches who raped a girl. Let's hack around and see what dirt we can find to use against them", to "We don't like that business/person/political-party. Let's hack around and see what dirt we can find to use against them".

Again, centuries of that sort of "justice" is why we have the rules we have today.
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#19 Jan 04 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Someone who says something like:
Is pretty sick in the head.

Edited, Jan 4th 2013 3:32pm by LockeColeMA


I remember a certain poster in this forum that tried to apply that logic. Smiley: laugh
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#20 Jan 04 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Default
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BrownDuck wrote:
From the CNN article someone linked:

Quote:
The controversy has shaken the city, with some residents accusing outsiders of trying to ruin the reputation of the town's high school football team, one of the few bright spots in the economically depressed community of 18,000.


Really? You're going to defend the situation by alleging a smear campaign against the HS football team?


I think it's possible to not defend the situation but also allege a smear campaign against the HS football team. Doubly so since that is what is actually happening.

Quote:
Considering the allegation is that the HS football team's presence in the town is EXACTLY why it's being covered up in the first place, that's a pretty bold deflection.


Yes. So because some people allege that there's a cover up to protect the team, the entire team and the school is being targeted. Even people who were not there and had nothing to do with it. Proceeding as though the allegation must be true is the problem here:

Quote:
Anonymous has taken up the case, hacking a site dedicated to high school sports in Steubenville and separately publishing on one of its websites a trove of images, texts and accusations involving students, coaches and boosters. Those individuals have not been named or charged by authorities with any crime.

Anonymous says it is collecting detailed information about the personal affairs of football boosters and others in Steubenville who the group claims may have helped cover up the alleged attack. It's also planning a protest "to help those who have been victimized by the football team or other regimes."

"The town of Steubenville has been good at keeping this quiet and their star football team protected," an Anonymous member wearing the group's trademark Guy Fawkes mask says in a video posted to the group's LocalLeaks website.

The organization, he says, will not allow "a group of young men who turn to rape as a game or sport get the pass because of athletic ability or small-town luck."


I really hope people can see what's wrong with the approach being taken here.
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#21 Jan 04 2013 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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A problem I can see arising is that Anonymous may use illegal hacking to produce evidence that will then be called inadmissible in court. Even if the police get a warrant and get that evidence themselves, it could be argued that they only had reason to search because of the prior illegal search (i.e. fruit of the poisoned tree).

That's not how that works, at all.
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#22 Jan 04 2013 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
A problem I can see arising is that Anonymous may use illegal hacking to produce evidence that will then be called inadmissible in court. Even if the police get a warrant and get that evidence themselves, it could be argued that they only had reason to search because of the prior illegal search (i.e. fruit of the poisoned tree).

That's not how that works, at all.


You can learn this from the wikipedia page.
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#23 Jan 09 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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I can't believe you gbaji. Seriously.
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#24 Jan 09 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Default
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I can't believe you gbaji. Seriously.


What don't you believe? That it's a bad idea to toss out centuries of judicial process in favor of a small band of masked internet hackers when deciding how to dispense justice? It's interesting how a position which would normally be met with approval is viewed with near hatred in this case.
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#25 Jan 09 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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What don't you believe? That it's a bad idea to toss out centuries of judicial process in favor of a small band of masked internet hackers when deciding how to dispense justice? It's interesting how a position which would normally be met with approval is viewed with near hatred in this case.


I agree with you. People who disagree should probably consider that.
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#26 Jan 10 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are we allowed to hate both groups of people?
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#27 Jan 10 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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#28 Jan 10 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't approve of their methods, but I approve less of an entire town colluding to cover up the misbehavior of their youth in order to protect a friggin football team.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#29 Jan 10 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I agree with you. People who disagree should probably consider that.

You're both off your meds!

Actually, I raised the same sentiment earlier.
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#30 Jan 10 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Default
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I don't approve of their methods, but I approve less of an entire town colluding to cover up the misbehavior of their youth in order to protect a friggin football team.

Really? I don't give a fuck at all. Probably because I don't know that's happening in a case that hasn't been tried and is working it's way through the criminal justice process (and neither do you, incidentally) and also because there are limits to how much anyone can care about and I've carved out a space for **** that actually matters to me leaving no space for "anonymous random girl may or may not have been assaulted sexually by douche-bags in some town I'll never be within 500 miles of"
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#31 Jan 10 2013 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Good for you. Have a cookie.

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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#32 Jan 10 2013 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Lets just hope he doesn't find a deathnote.
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catwho wrote:
I don't approve of their methods, but I approve less of an entire town colluding to cover up the misbehavior of their youth in order to protect a friggin football team.


One of those things we know is happening. The other is pure speculation.
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#34 Jan 10 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
catwho wrote:
I don't approve of their methods, but I approve less of an entire town colluding to cover up the misbehavior of their youth in order to protect a friggin football team.


One of those things we know is happening. The other is pure speculation.

Just had a flashback to the Florida shooter thing. Smiley: rolleyes

That thing's not resolved yet ya?
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#35 Jan 10 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think that re-upping a video some **** made of himself mocking the rape of an unconscious young woman is "vigilantism" - nor is it convicting someone without due process. It's holding them to account for their words and actions through public shaming. I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, I see the lack of cohesive community, along with the missing component of social pressure that brings as part of the problem leading to these atrocious crimes.
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#36 Jan 10 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Anonymous has taken up the case, hacking a site dedicated to high school sports in Steubenville and separately publishing on one of its websites a trove of images, texts and accusations involving students, coaches and boosters. Those individuals have not been named or charged by authorities with any crime.

Anonymous says it is collecting detailed information about the personal affairs of football boosters and others in Steubenville who the group claims may have helped cover up the alleged attack. It's also planning a protest "to help those who have been victimized by the football team or other regimes."

"The town of Steubenville has been good at keeping this quiet and their star football team protected," an Anonymous member wearing the group's trademark Guy Fawkes mask says in a video posted to the group's LocalLeaks website.

The organization, he says, will not allow "a group of young men who turn to rape as a game or sport get the pass because of athletic ability or small-town luck."


Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
I don't think that re-upping a video some **** made of himself mocking the rape of an unconscious young woman is "vigilantism" - nor is it convicting someone without due process. It's holding them to account for their words and actions through public shaming. I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, I see the lack of cohesive community, along with the missing component of social pressure that brings as part of the problem leading to these atrocious crimes.



Their actions go well beyond releasing just information and facts related to the case itself. From the article, it appears as though they're finding anything that could be embarrassing about anyone they think might be related to the case, presumably to use as pressure if the town doesn't do what they think they should. All because they assume some kind of weak stereotype involving a cover up to protect the local football team must be happening, purely because it's a small town where football is a big deal. Can't see how this could ever end badly at all!

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 2:57pm by gbaji
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All because they assume some kind of weak stereotype involving a cover up to protect the local football team must be happening, purely because it's a small town where football is a big deal. Can't see how this could ever end badly at all!

OR the lulz. Let's not attribute complex motivations to this group. They rarely actually have any.
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#38 Jan 10 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
All because they assume some kind of weak stereotype involving a cover up to protect the local football team must be happening, purely because it's a small town where football is a big deal. Can't see how this could ever end badly at all!

OR the lulz. Let's not attribute complex motivations to this group. They rarely actually have any.


True. All the more reason to not respond with "OMG! Anonymous says they're bad people and we should hate them, so I'm going to do just that!!!".
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#39 Jan 10 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

True. All the more reason to not respond with "OMG! Anonymous says they're bad people and we should hate them, so I'm going to do just that!!!".


Are any of us saying that? Besides, we don't need anonymous to tell us that **** laughing about thinking a girl was dead while she was being raped and joking that her being raped was her "dying wish" is a bad person. He told the world himself when he made that video.

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 4:17pm by Olorinus
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#40 Jan 10 2013 at 7:04 PM Rating: Default
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
gbaji wrote:

True. All the more reason to not respond with "OMG! Anonymous says they're bad people and we should hate them, so I'm going to do just that!!!".


Are any of us saying that?


Yes:

catwho wrote:
I don't approve of their methods, but I approve less of an entire town colluding to cover up the misbehavior of their youth in order to protect a friggin football team.


People absolutely are saying that the whole town is engaged in some kind of cover up, more or less solely because Anonymous said they were (or suspected they were, or implied it, hacked the school web site to find evidence of it, or whatever else is making people think that this must be true).

Quote:
Besides, we don't need anonymous to tell us that **** laughing about thinking a girl was dead while she was being raped and joking that her being raped was her "dying wish" is a bad person. He told the world himself when he made that video.


Yup. Which is utterly irrelevant to the points I was making about the actions of Anonymous and how it equated to mob justice and was a bad idea. If all Anonymous did was release that video, I don't think anyone would have an issue with their actions. But their self proclaimed mission to expose the town for covering up the events surrounding the rape of this girl (and the purely speculative assumption that it has anything to do with protecting a football team) goes well beyond that. The very act of doing and saying that makes people believe that a cover up must have occurred, even though there is no evidence of it.

Edited, Jan 10th 2013 5:04pm by gbaji
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#41 Jan 10 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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people believe that a cover up must have occurred, even though there is no evidence of it.


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#42 Jan 10 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Are any of us saying that? Besides, we don't need anonymous to tell us that **** laughing about thinking a girl was dead while she was being raped and joking that her being raped was her "dying wish" is a bad person. He told the world himself when he made that video.


Maybe. Or maybe he had a bad ten minutes. If someone showed the world video of just the stupid things I said when I was 16 they might think...you know what, I'm a bad example, but you get the idea. Your entire knowledge of this kids personality is based on what's likely him at his worst. That's a poor way to judge someone. Maybe he's a piece of **** the world is better without, but you can't tell from the information that's actually available.
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#43 Jan 10 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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What!? Young drunk people saying really really stupid things? That can't be true!
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#44 Jan 10 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Are any of us saying that? Besides, we don't need anonymous to tell us that **** laughing about thinking a girl was dead while she was being raped and joking that her being raped was her "dying wish" is a bad person. He told the world himself when he made that video.


Maybe. Or maybe he had a bad ten minutes. If someone showed the world video of just the stupid things I said when I was 16 they might think...you know what, I'm a bad example, but you get the idea. Your entire knowledge of this kids personality is based on what's likely him at his worst. That's a poor way to judge someone. Maybe he's a piece of sh*t the world is better without, but you can't tell from the information that's actually available.


That's rich.
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#45 Jan 11 2013 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

Are any of us saying that? Besides, we don't need anonymous to tell us that **** laughing about thinking a girl was dead while she was being raped and joking that her being raped was her "dying wish" is a bad person. He told the world himself when he made that video.


Maybe. Or maybe he had a bad ten minutes. If someone showed the world video of just the stupid things I said when I was 16 they might think...you know what, I'm a bad example, but you get the idea. Your entire knowledge of this kids personality is based on what's likely him at his worst. That's a poor way to judge someone. Maybe he's a piece of sh*t the world is better without, but you can't tell from the information that's actually available.


That's rich.

Well, except for when they were raping an unconscious underaged girl, those football players were probably good enough boys. We can't judge them just because of what they did at their worst.

Smiley: rolleyes
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#46 Jan 11 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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#47 Jan 11 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Ernest Hemingway wrote:
Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.



If you visit Hemingway house in Key West, they still have the urinal he ripped out of Sloppy Joe's bar's bathroom in the back yard. His wife just shrugged and planted flowers in it.

Edited, Jan 11th 2013 10:29am by catwho
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#48 Jan 11 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Ernest Hemingway wrote:
Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.



If you visit Hemingway house in Key West, they still have the urinal he ripped out of Sloppy Joe's bar's bathroom in the back yard. His wife just shrugged and planted flowers in it.

Edited, Jan 11th 2013 10:29am by catwho

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#49 Jan 11 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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It's a fucked up world. Smash and gbaji agreeing. And I agree with them both as well. Has Texas frozen over?
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#50 Jan 11 2013 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a fucked up world. Smash and gbaji agreeing. And I agree with them both as well. Has Texas frozen over?

End times, dude.

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#51 Jan 11 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Clearly this young woman should have been carrying a gun. That would have made those young men simply run away instead of drugging her, carrying her from party to party, and repeatedly sexually molesting her.
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