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#52 Jan 03 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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#53 Jan 03 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm kind of hoping we get to see the snack cake puppet show, to be honest.
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#54 Jan 03 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
...my family grew up pretty poor. We never were on food stamps...
Then you weren't "pretty poor".

Or, y'know, your definition of "poor" is different than everybody else's.


So your definition of poor is based on whether or not your family receives food stamps? You get how circular that definition is, right?

So in your mind no poverty existed until the US created its food stamp programs? Interesting. I see an easy way to end poverty right now!
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#55 Jan 03 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
blah blah blah


Yeah, go make me a snack cake puppet. At least then you'll be of some use.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#56 Jan 03 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
blah blah blah


Yeah, go make me a snack cake puppet. At least then you'll be of some use.


You want a puppet made out of snack cakes, or did you forget a comma? Smiley: tongue
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#57 Jan 03 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
You want a puppet made out of snack cakes, or did you forget a comma? Smiley: tongue


smash wrote:
and I'll see if I can film some sort of snack cake puppet show
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#58 Jan 03 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
You want a puppet made out of snack cakes, or did you forget a comma? Smiley: tongue


smash wrote:
and I'll see if I can film some sort of snack cake puppet show


Meh, I only watch the Live View sparingly, and only go back through threads if I have a complete interest in the post.
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#59 Jan 03 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
...my family grew up pretty poor. We never were on food stamps...
Then you weren't "pretty poor".

Or, y'know, your definition of "poor" is different than everybody else's.


So your definition of poor is based on whether or not your family receives food stamps? You get how circular that definition is, right?

So in your mind no poverty existed until the US created its food stamp programs? Interesting. I see an easy way to end poverty right now!


You really are ******* retarded.



ALSO: The whole "I was starveling child whose bedroom was a cardboard box" story is pretty retarded, so. No one believes it.
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Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#60 Jan 03 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
...my family grew up pretty poor. We never were on food stamps...
Then you weren't "pretty poor".

Or, y'know, your definition of "poor" is different than everybody else's.


So your definition of poor is based on whether or not your family receives food stamps? You get how circular that definition is, right?

So in your mind no poverty existed until the US created its food stamp programs? Interesting. I see an easy way to end poverty right now!


You really are @#%^ing retarded.


You're the one claiming that if someone wasn't on food stamps then they couldn't have been "pretty poor". Perhaps you should think such things through before posting them?

I understand that being on food stamps doesn't make you poor, and being poor doesn't require being on food stamps. Is there a problem with that you'd like to take up beyond just tossing out epithets? Some of us grew up in families who did not go on food stamps at the first sign of tough times, not because we wouldn't have benefited but because the principle of being as self reliant as possible is important to us. Some of us actually believe that it's wrong to take from others to provide for ourselves. Some of us actually believe that accepting public assistance is a trap which makes it harder to become self reliant down the road. And some of us formed those opinions, not because we were greedy and rich, but because we were poor, but believed that it was our responsibility to do something about it, and that sitting on our butts waiting for a government check wasn't the correct solution.


Quote:
ALSO: The whole "I was starveling child whose bedroom was a cardboard box" story is pretty retarded, so. No one believes it.


Neither do I. Good thing I never said that. I'm curious what you would accept as evidence of being "pretty poor"? Wearing hand me downs and goodwill clothes? Check. One black and white TV in the house until sometime around 1990? Check. Parent working multiple jobs and long hours? Check. Cabbage and hot dog slices a common meal? Check. I'm honestly curious at what point someone is acceptably "pretty poor" in your eyes?

You know how we got along without food stamps? We volunteered at a local food service (called "Share" IIRC). Yes, us kids as well. Once a month, we'd spend the weekend packing boxes with food and loading/unloading pallets and trucks. In return, we got a number of boxes based on the number of hours we helped out (usually a couple boxes). Rice, beans, and canned foods were in the boxes, along with some other assorted food items. On holiday's you'd get a small turkey or ham. That's why we weren't on food stamps. Because we choose to do something to help ourselves and others instead of just waiting for the government to step in and hand us something for free.


So forgive me if I have absolutely zero sympathy for people who complain that they can't buy soda or other completely unnecessary things with the free food stamps the government gives them.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2013 1:57pm by gbaji
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#61 Jan 03 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Wearing hand me downs and goodwill clothes? Check. One black and white TV in the house until sometime around 1990? Check. Parent working multiple jobs and long hours? Check. Cabbage and hot dog slices a common meal? Check. I'm honestly curious at what point someone is acceptably "pretty poor" in your eyes?


You're going to have to do better than that, I'm afraid. I can cross all those off my list, and we were middle class, at worst.
#62 Jan 03 2013 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm curious what you would accept as evidence of being "pretty poor"?
No running water or flush toilet. No vehicle. Burning clothes (rejects from thrift stores) to heat your home. That's life on Pine Ridge Reservation; that's poor. You have never been even remotely acquainted with being poor.

Eske Esquire wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Wearing hand me downs and goodwill clothes? Check. One black and white TV in the house until sometime around 1990? Check. Parent working multiple jobs and long hours? Check. Cabbage and hot dog slices a common meal? Check. I'm honestly curious at what point someone is acceptably "pretty poor" in your eyes?


You're going to have to do better than that, I'm afraid. I can cross all those off my list, and we were middle class, at worst.
What Eske said.
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#63 Jan 03 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I wrote:

ALSO: The whole "I was starveling child whose bedroom was a cardboard box" story is pretty retarded, so. No one believes it.


Neither do I. Good thing I never said that.


Right. You never typed those exact words in any forum here that I'm aware of.


Take two seconds to think why I'd say such a thing, though, would you?
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#64gbaji, Posted: Jan 03 2013 at 4:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And you did those things, not by choice but because you couldn't afford anything better? I'm pretty sure that someone growing up in a middle class household in the 80s could afford new clothes and a color TV. I don't think you understand. I never owned a new pair of pants until I was an adult and had my own job and bought them for myself. I doubt that someone who grew up in the middle class could say that.
#65 Jan 03 2013 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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I was the fourth girl. Some of my clothes were hand me downs to the power of two. Smiley: lol

The first time I got a coat that was brand new was 7th grade, when my mother found a Charlotte Hornet's starter jacket on clearance, which was my Christmas present that year.

We still weren't poor. Lower middle class is where we sat. No food stamps either - although we did have access to cheap, tax free food via the commissary.
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#66 Jan 03 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
To me, being "pretty poor" means that while you weren't starving or homeless, you regularly had to go without any real luxuries. You didn't go out to eat, or have soda in the fridge. If you owned a car, it was a cheap one. You couldn't afford special activities. What else would you think this means? If someone has some other definition, I'd love to hear it.
Holy crap; called that one.

And that isn't "pretty poor", It's the low end of middle class but not "poor".

And the pants story is plumb idiotic.

ALSO: A lie.
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#67 Jan 03 2013 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm curious what you would accept as evidence of being "pretty poor"?
No running water or flush toilet. No vehicle. Burning clothes (rejects from thrift stores) to heat your home. That's life on Pine Ridge Reservation; that's poor. You have never been even remotely acquainted with being poor.


I said "pretty poor". WTF? I'm sure there's some range between "living in a mud hut" and "able to afford anything you want" that we can safely label as "pretty poor" within the US context.

I'm curious if that's the criteria for poverty before someone can receive food stamps then? No? Then it's meaningless isn't it? My point is that there was a period of time in which my family was easily as poor as a large percentage of the people who receive public assistance today. But we managed to get by, and didn't care that we didn't have soda in the fridge. Try to stay on topic.

Quote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm honestly curious at what point someone is acceptably "pretty poor" in your eyes?


You're going to have to do better than that, I'm afraid. I can cross all those off my list, and we were middle class, at worst.
What Eske said.


Then answer the question I asked. Not "abject poverty", but "pretty poor". What do you think that is? And if you can't define it, then how do we decide who gets public assistance in this country? Because clearly, if people on food stamps have enough food to be buying soda, then do they still qualify as "pretty poor" either?


It's just funny because your use of "poor" seems to change based on whether you're assessing my poverty as a child (teen really), versus whether some person on welfare is poor. Strange isn't it? You'll defend with your dying breath the utter necessity of funding assistance for people who are living much more comfortable lives than I did on the grounds that they're poor, but then turn around and insist that I wasn't poor. How the **** does that work in your own head?

Edited, Jan 3rd 2013 2:36pm by gbaji
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#68gbaji, Posted: Jan 03 2013 at 4:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No. It's not. Is it really so hard for you to grasp that someone who is not poor today might actually have been pretty poor at a point in his life while growing up? Why do you have such a mental block about this. You accept that some black kid from the inner city can be poor, but not a white kid from a working poor neighborhood? Or is it because I'm a conservative? I can't know what being in need is because it doesn't fit the Strawman narrative you've been taught about the evil motivations of greedy conservatives? You're so afraid of anyone succeeding on their own because it might damage the argument for big government social services that you just have to reject even the possibility itself?
#69 Jan 03 2013 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... No. It's not. The low end of middle class means you have to buy a used Lexus instead of a new one, and you're house in the suburbs only has 2 bathrooms instead of 3. And you don't have a pool.

Are you kidding me? Massive excluded middle going on here.


Oh my god, can't stop breathing, laughing so hard... Smiley: lol
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#70 Jan 03 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
You'll defend with your dying breath the utter necessity of funding assistance for people who are living much more comfortable lives than I did on the grounds that they're poor
Really? Please link to me saying that. At all.

For what it's worth I have had times in my life where I could have easily gotten food stamps, but didn't bother. I just spent what little I had at the time on food and rent.

Single moms with little babies don't get that happy option. And, before you go off, sometimes mommies are single because their man died or divorced them. It's not their evil, liberal life choices that put them in that position. **** happens.

Of course, you'd have to be the type of person who cares for the welfare (there's that word!) of little children; sadly, you are not.



ALSO:I'm curious about the standards to get food stamps where you live. Around here the income cutoff is something like $600/mo for a single person. Is it drastically higher in California?
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#71 Jan 03 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Frugality is a poor way to measure wealth. You might be forced to buy only second-hand clothing because you are poor, but buying second-hand clothing in and of itself is not an accurate indicator of one's wealth level. So sure, gbaji, you might have come up being "pretty poor" but not owning fancy things doesn't make you poor. However, being on food stamps can be used as a measure of one's economic class, since in order to receive them, your family has to be at or below a certain income level. You could be a millionaire and only have a single black-and-white television; there's no low-income requirement for that. Throwing all that **** out there as a way of saying "hey, I was poor" is kind of dumb.
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#72gbaji, Posted: Jan 03 2013 at 4:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm just curious where he squeezes in the working class. Apparently, it doesn't exist or something.
#73 Jan 03 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... No. It's not. The low end of middle class means you have to buy a used Lexus instead of a new one, and you're house in the suburbs only has 2 bathrooms instead of 3. And you don't have a pool.

Are you kidding me? Massive excluded middle going on here.


Oh my god, can't stop breathing, laughing so hard... Smiley: lol
Holy ******* ********** he did not just write that!!!!

*re-reads gbaji's post*

He DID!!!!








Hmm, I guess the whole "Bijou thinks gbaji has no perspective on being poor" was right on the money!
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#74 Jan 03 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Default
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Spoonless wrote:
However, being on food stamps can be used as a measure of one's economic class, since in order to receive them, your family has to be at or below a certain income level.


Sure. But not receiving them is *not* a measure of one's economic class. Which was the precise point I was making. One could choose not to accept or apply for food stamps even if one qualified for them, right? So arguing that if someone wasn't on food stamps, they must not have been "pretty poor" is a completely false assumption.
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#75 Jan 03 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
catwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... No. It's not. The low end of middle class means you have to buy a used Lexus instead of a new one, and you're house in the suburbs only has 2 bathrooms instead of 3. And you don't have a pool.

Are you kidding me? Massive excluded middle going on here.


Oh my god, can't stop breathing, laughing so hard... Smiley: lol
Holy @#%^ing sh*tballs, he did not just write that!!!!

*re-reads gbaji's post*

He DID!!!!


Am I missing something (other than the typo)? I assumed Cat was laughing at you.

According to lolwiki, lower middle class means:

Quote:

Taking into account the percentages provided in the six-class model by Gilbert, as well as the model of Thompson and Hickey, one can apply [[U.S. Census Bureau] statistics regarding income. According to these class models the lower middle class is located roughly between the 52nd and 84th percentile of society. In terms of personal income distribution in 2005, that would mean gross annual personal incomes from about $32,500 to $60,000.[21]

As 42% of all households, and the majority of those in the top 40%, had two income earners, household income figures would be significantly higher, ranging from roughly $50,000 to $100,000 annually.[13] In terms of educational attainment, 27% of persons had a Bachelor's degree or higher.


So yes. Low middle class typically does mean a house in the suburbs. Not in the rich neighborhoods, but we're not talking apartment in the slums by any means (again, there's a whole range in between you seem to be ignoring). And if we're looking at a married couple, they can quite easily afford a whole lot of nice things for themselves and their kids.


If you think lower middle class is that poor, then where does the working class fit in?
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#76 Jan 03 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
So arguing that if someone wasn't on food stamps, they must not have been "pretty poor" is a completely false assumption.
Sure. Just like arguing that if someone only owned a single b&w tele and second-hand pants, they must have been "pretty poor" is a completely false assumption.
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