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Republicans pulled the fiscal emergency brakeFollow

#1 Jan 01 2013 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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Well, something is better than nothing.

The LA TImes wrote:
WASHINGTON — The House gave final approval Tuesday night to a bill to rescind tax increases for the vast majority of Americans, but only after a day of closed-door debate among Republicans, who were forced to allow a vote on a compromise many in their party disdained.

The final tally, 257 to 167, included most of the chamber’s Democrats and fewer than half of the Republican majority.

The deal, largely negotiated by Vice President Joe Biden and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), had passed the Senate early Tuesday morning. It blocked income tax hikes for roughly 99% of households, but allowed rates to rise for those with incomes above $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for couples.

It also renewed tax credits aimed at low-income households and college students, extended unemployment benefits, delayed automatic spending cuts in defense and other government programs for two months and resolved several other issues that Congress had left hanging.

The lopsided 89-8 vote in the Senate was engineered by McConnell and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to put as much pressure as possible on the House to follow suit. But as House Republicans gathered for the first of two private caucus meetings early on New Year’s afternoon, many vowed to resist.

The mood did not last.

Early in the evening, Republicans held a second caucus meeting. This time, take-out Chinese food replaced sandwiches, and resignation subbed for defiance.

Several Republicans said afterward they feared that, if the bill failed and taxes went up, their party would take the blame.
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#2 Jan 01 2013 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
Obama wins.

Caveality.
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#3 Jan 02 2013 at 12:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wonk Wire wrote:
The Wall Street Journal notes the “tax changes included in the bill hashed out between the White House and congressional Republicans Monday includes the first increases in top income-tax rates in nearly two decades… For millions of wage earners, the most immediate effect would be the lapse of a two-percentage-point payroll-tax cut that was part of a deal President Barack Obama struck with Republicans late in 2010. It lowered to 4.2% from 6.2% the employee portion of the Social Security tax, allowing workers to keep more take-home pay.”

Politico: “But as big a deal as it was, it did little to address the nation’s long-term deficit problem — there’s nothing in it to pare back entitlement spending — or to defuse a potential crisis over raising the debt ceiling that could come as early as February.”

Other key features of the deal summarized by Suzy Khimm:

  • Tax rates will permanently rise to Clinton-era levels for families with income above $450,000 and individuals above $400,000. All income below the threshold will permanently be taxed at Bush-era rates.
  • The tax on capital gains and dividends will be permanently set at 20 percent for those with income above the $450,000/$400,000 threshold. It will remain at 15 percent for everyone else.
  • The estate tax will be set at 40 percent for those at the $450,000/$400,000 threshold, with a $5 million exemption indexed to inflation.
  • The phase out of personal exemptions will be reinstated with a starting income threshold for those making $250,000.
  • The sequester will be delayed for two months, paid for half by discretionary cuts and the other half will be offset by revenue raised by the voluntary transfer of traditional IRAs to Roth IRAs.



Edited, Jan 2nd 2013 12:08am by Jophiel
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#4 Jan 02 2013 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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So basically, they just procrastinated for 2 months with little actual happening aside from a tax increase for the top 1%?
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#5 Jan 02 2013 at 1:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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The whole social security withholding tax going up at least $1,000 for everyone thing still happens, which i find somewhat annoying. Sure its only what, $83 a month, but it was my $83 a month and I had plans for it. And they dragged it on long enough regardless that we're going to hit recession again, if not from this, but from anticipation of the debt ceiling negotiations happening in the next few weeks. Again. These idiots on both sides are playing nuclear brinksmanship with our economy and they should all be impeached for doing so.
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#6 Jan 02 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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These idiots on both sides

Nope.
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#7 Jan 02 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to track the careers of the seventy some republicans that voted for this and see if Grover destroys them.
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#8 Jan 02 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to track the careers of the seventy some republicans that voted for this and see if Grover destroys them.

This is all I could see in my mind:
grover not happy
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#9 Jan 02 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I figured they'd just let us go over the cliff. Deep spending cuts? Higher taxes? Both sides get what they want, and the American people...well, they don't really care about the people, so it's a win-win!
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#10 Jan 02 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sweep the mess under the rug for the next guys to take care of. Hopefully in a few months Congress and the Senate can agree to begin cutting the largest waste of federal dollars...the defense budget.
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#11 Jan 02 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Sweep the mess under the rug for the next guys to take care of. Hopefully in a few months Congress and the Senate can agree to begin cutting the largest waste of federal dollars...the defense budget.

B-b-b-but Team America, Fuck Yeah!
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#12 Jan 02 2013 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
These idiots on both sides

Nope.


So the democrats had a unanamous vote on that fiscal cliff compromise bill then eh? and weren't being even the slightest bit obstructionist about the whole process? Were there more idiots on the republican side this time? sure. Many of them criminally so. But there are more than a few idiots on the other side that should also be flogged. Repeatedly. Including the idiot in chief.
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#13 Jan 02 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
These idiots on both sides

Nope.


So the democrats had a unanamous vote on that fiscal cliff compromise bill then eh? and weren't being even the slightest bit obstructionist about the whole process? Were there more idiots on the republican side this time? sure. Many of them criminally so. But there are more than a few idiots on the other side that should also be flogged. Repeatedly. Including the idiot in chief.


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#14gbaji, Posted: Jan 02 2013 at 7:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes. The Democratic Party controlled Senate waited until after midnight on New Years eve to finally get around to passing any sort of bill. You do understand that the House has passed several bills addressing this over the last few months, right?
#15 Jan 02 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
So basically, they just procrastinated for 2 months with little actual happening aside from a tax increase for the top 1%?


Yes. The Democratic Party controlled Senate waited until after midnight on New Years eve to finally get around to passing any sort of bill. You do understand that the House has passed several bills addressing this over the last few months, right?


Wasn't there a big hollering about how the budget HAD to originate in the House according to the Constitution?
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#16 Jan 02 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes. The Democratic Party controlled Senate waited until after midnight on New Years eve to finally get around to passing any sort of bill. You do understand that the House has passed several bills addressing this over the last few months, right?


So did the senate. Lets face it, Congress, & the House especially, is the least effective branch of Government.

I doubt Boehner keeps his job Friday.
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#17 Jan 02 2013 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
The whole social security withholding tax going up at least $1,000 for everyone thing still happens, which i find somewhat annoying. Sure its only what, $83 a month, but it was my $83 a month and I had plans for it. And they dragged it on long enough regardless that we're going to hit recession again, if not from this, but from anticipation of the debt ceiling negotiations happening in the next few weeks. Again. These idiots on both sides are playing nuclear brinksmanship with our economy and they should all be impeached for doing so.


Honestly, while I understand the politics of the language choices surrounding this, the social security tax holiday ending was the one thing I didn't have a problem with (in terms of tax increases anyway). It should never have been reduced in the first place, really didn't help at all during the financial crisis, and created exactly the false sort of (but now my taxes are going up!) perception you mention. Payroll taxes are already not high enough to pay for SS and Medicare. While I'm not a huge fan of either program, especially as they are structured and funded, at least it's one tax that ensures that everyone has some skin in the game, and while it's still grossly tilted in terms of benefits versus dollars paid, it's at least less so than the rest of our tax/spend methodology.


IMO, the GOP basically won this round. By holding to a "no taxes at all" position, they got the Dems to agree to make the Bush taxes permanent (something they were not able to do back in 2001 when they controlled both houses) except for income over 400k. That's frankly a minor concession (and a **** of a lot better than the 200k level the Dems originally wanted), given the bigger gains. It's kinda like wanting a triple scoop ice cream cone with sprinkles on it, and getting a triple scoop ice cream cone, but with only 90% of the sprinkles you wanted.


The great thing is that they managed to do this while making the Dems think that they were putting one over on them, so a bunch of Republicans could vote against it in the house, still get the bill passed, and still keep their tax promises. It's like a double win really. Great job holding the line really.
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#18 Jan 02 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Default
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
Yes. The Democratic Party controlled Senate waited until after midnight on New Years eve to finally get around to passing any sort of bill. You do understand that the House has passed several bills addressing this over the last few months, right?


So did the senate.


No they didn't. Not one. A fact I'm sure whatever media you watch failed repeatedly to mention while falling over themselves to tell you about how the House Republicans were dragging their feet.

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Lets face it, Congress, & the House especially, is the least effective branch of Government.


The issue in this case has nothing to do with effectiveness.

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I doubt Boehner keeps his job Friday.


That's quite possible, but it certainly wont have anything to do with him failing to give the Democrats a better deal.
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#19 Jan 02 2013 at 8:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

IMO, the GOP basically won this round. By holding to a "no taxes at all" position, they got the Dems to agree to make the Bush taxes permanent (something they were not able to do back in 2001 when they controlled both houses) except for income over 400k. That's frankly a minor concession (and a **** of a lot better than the 200k level the Dems originally wanted), given the bigger gains. It's kinda like wanting a triple scoop ice cream cone with sprinkles on it, and getting a triple scoop ice cream cone, but with only 90% of the sprinkles you wanted.

....Great job holding the line really.


So... they wanted "no taxes at all," got tax increases, and it's their victory? Well, as long as it makes you happy, keep saying that.

I would think a better analogy would be the GOP saying "We want free pizza!" and then being forced to pay for a salad and calling it a victory. Sure, it's still idiotic, but considering "conservatives" are crying that they are the losers of the deal and that Obama's supporters won, it's at least closer to the truth.

Not that I care. Stocks soared today Smiley: grin
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#20 Jan 02 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am going to start keeping count of the number of times Gbaji say's "You do understand..."
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#21 Jan 02 2013 at 8:46 PM Rating: Default
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LockeColeMA wrote:
So... they wanted "no taxes at all," got tax increases, and it's their victory? Well, as long as it makes you happy, keep saying that.


They want taxes to be as low as possible. You need to look at this from a larger historical perspective to understand what I'm talking about.

Back in 2001, the GOP was able to get the Bush tax cuts in place, but could only get it past a Dem filibuster by including a sunset provision. Which is what brought us to this point in the first place. Yesterday, the Dems basically allowed 99+% of the Bush tax cuts to become permanent (no more sunset). That's a massive victory. If the cost of getting that is to allow taxes to go up a tiny amount on income over $400k, that's an acceptable price to pay.

The point of holding the line is about negotiation. If the GOP told the Dems that they were willing to give that $400k concession 2 months ago, the Dems would have held out for something better. You always start with the absolute and then negotiate.

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I would think a better analogy would be the GOP saying "We want free pizza!" and then being forced to pay for a salad and calling it a victory.


Only if you completely fail to grasp the fiscal objectives of the Right. And yes, there are a lot of stupid conservative pundits (radio talking heads really) who fail to grasp them as well. The broad objective is to minimize the tax burden on the people. That's the goal. The whole "rich vs poor" thing is really a Liberal issue. Obviously, in a perfect world, sanity would have won out and we would have made the Bush tax rates permanent for all income brackets, but in the big picture context, this was about the best win the GOP could have hoped for. And by making the whole thing about ********* over "taxes on the rich", the Left managed to become so obsessed over it that they failed to see that bigger picture. They fought so hard for those incredibly tiny tax increases that they were willing to basically give the GOP every thing else they wanted to get them. And "everything else" is stuff the Dems steadfastly opposed just a decade ago.

This was never about "taxes for the 98% versus taxes for the 2%" from the conservative perspective. But if letting the Left think that got us what we wanted, that's just peachy.

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Not that I care. Stocks soared today Smiley: grin


Yes. Because most of the people making decisions which affect those stock prices are fiscally conservative and they liked the deal. What part of "stocks plummet when Obama wins re-election" makes you think that markets respond favorably when liberals win?
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#22 Jan 02 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
So... they wanted "no taxes at all," got tax increases, and it's their victory? Well, as long as it makes you happy, keep saying that.


They want taxes to be as low as possible. You need to look at this from a larger historical perspective to understand what I'm talking about.


Weird, I thought most GOPers wanted no taxes at all. I mean, you just wrote that, and it's what they campaigned on (and lost). And the Dems wanted taxes on the rich - which they did get. Which they got. So it seems everybody wins?

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Only if you completely fail to grasp the fiscal objectives of the Right. And yes, there are a lot of stupid conservative pundits (radio talking heads really) who fail to grasp them as well.

Well goodie! They should keep it up; I would love to see more compromise, especially since it's both benefitting the country and tearing the conservative voting base in twain. I'd actually like the GOP a lot more if they kicked out the social cons and only had the fiscal ones willing to compromise left.

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What part of "stocks plummet when Obama wins re-election" makes you think that markets respond favorably when liberals win?

Welllllll, they didn't. So... uh...

Hey, if conservatives say they lost, Democrats said they won, and I made money on the deal, I don't care how you spin it. Bring on more GOP losses! Or wins, from your view. They work for me! Smiley: nod

Edited, Jan 2nd 2013 10:22pm by LockeColeMA
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#23 Jan 02 2013 at 9:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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This should be good. Smiley: popcorn
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#24 Jan 02 2013 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
IMO, the GOP basically won this round.

Smiley: laugh I don't doubt that you think so.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2013 9:44pm by Jophiel
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#25 Jan 02 2013 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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No they didn't. Not one. A fact I'm sure whatever media you watch failed repeatedly to mention while falling over themselves to tell you about how the House Republicans were dragging their feet.


Untrue.

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The issue in this case has nothing to do with effectiveness.


And everything to do with one side's inability to work with the other to solve anything as "solving things" is a victory for Obama & a political liability amongst their constituents.

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(Boehner losing his job) s quite possible, but it certainly wont have anything to do with him failing to give the Democrats a better deal.


He sure stuck it to the Dems with all those spending cuts.

Oh, wait.
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#26 Jan 02 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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Yesterday, the Dems basically allowed 99+% of the Bush tax cuts to become permanent (no more sunset). That's a massive victory.


I don't know how it's possible for one person to be so completely delusional, but it makes for a good laugh now and then.

The dems wanted a tax increase for the top 1% and without spending cuts. They got exactly that. The dems won this round. Anything else is a figment of your self-delusional imagination.
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