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#1 Dec 24 2012 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like two firefighters were killed plus two others wounded when they went to fight a fire. Believed to be a trap. Below is a full story for those that don't want to click the link.

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Four firefighters were shot, two fatally, while responding to a blaze in upstate New York on Monday, and investigators believe the shooter set a trap to lure them to the scene.

The shooter, who also died, apparently took aim at the firefighters as they arrived at an early morning house and vehicle fire in the Rochester-area town of Webster, Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.

Pickering said two of the firefighters who were shot died at the scene. The two injured firefighters were hospitalized in intensive care, officials said. An off-duty police officer passing by the area also suffered shrapnel wounds, Pickering said.

Authorities did not immediately identify the shooter, who died of a gunshot wound at the scene. It was not clear whether the wound was self-inflicted, Pickering said, or why the shooter opened fire.
Police: Gunman set trap for firefighters

"It does appear that it was a trap that was set," said Pickering, who choked back tears as he talked about the firefighters who were killed. One was also a police lieutenant with about 20 years on the force, he said.

"We are a safe community, and to have tragedy befall us like this is just tremendous. ... You know, these people get up in the middle of the night to go put out fire," he said. "They don't expect to be shot and killed."

The shooting occurred amid a renewed gun control debate after the December 14 elementary school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, that killed 26 people, most of them children. The gunman also apparently killed his mother and himself.

The head of a lobbying group that represents first responders said the Monday shooting was "senseless and cruel."

"The firefighters who responded today were performing a selfless, meaningful service to their community, unaware that a cold-hearted maniac was planning to ambush them and take their lives," said Harold Schaitberger, general president of the Washington-based International Association of Fire Fighters. "Coming on the heels of the horrific tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, and on Christmas Eve, this shooting is even harder to comprehend."

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo described the Webster shooting as "horrific." And the state's attorney general called it a "senseless tragedy"

"As this investigation unfolds, we stand with our partners in law enforcement to ensure that lethal weapons are out of the hands of dangerous people, so that brave New Yorkers who risk their lives every day to protect us are not exposed to additional danger," Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman said in a statement.

Firefighters first arrived at the Webster fire before 6 a.m., said Rob Boutillier, the town's fire marshal.

For more than three hours, the threat of gunfire stopped them from fighting the fire and forced police SWAT teams to evacuate 33 people from homes in the area. By noon, four houses were engulfed in flames.

One firefighter escaped from the scene in his own vehicle about an hour after he was shot and was taken to a hospital by an ambulance from another location, Boutillier said. Another wounded firefighter was conscious and speaking when he was removed from the scene, he said.

The wounded firefighters were in intensive care Monday at Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, New York, officials said.

It was unclear what type of weapon was used in the Webster shooting.

"I know that many people are going to be asking, 'Were they assault rifles?' " I don't know that. I can't answer that at this time," Pickering told reporters.

President Barack Obama has set a January deadline for "concrete proposals" to deal with gun violence.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, has said she will introduce legislation to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. The White House has said that the president supports that effort.

Speaking to reporters Friday, the head of the National Rifle Association proposed putting armed guards in schools after the mass shooting in order to protect children.

On Sunday, NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press" that he would not support new gun restrictions, saying most gun laws now on the books are rarely enforced.


It does take a certain special kind of someone to hate firefighters enough to kill them. Those bastards! Putting out fires. Makes it hard to be an arsonist in this world. Smiley: glare
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#2 Dec 24 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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If you don't murder some firefighters now and then, the government won't know we're serious about stopping tyranny.

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#3 Dec 24 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Interesting side note, the gunman was arrested in 1980 for beating his grandmother to death with a hammer, according to usa today.
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#4 Dec 24 2012 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is it the high season for crazy or something?
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#5 Dec 24 2012 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Is it the high season for crazy or something?

Actually, yeah. With decreased sunshine and the emotional stress of the holidays, S.A.D. looks like a real phenomenon.
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#6 Dec 24 2012 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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The USA is starting to look a little bit third world lately.

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#7 Dec 24 2012 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it the high season for crazy or something?

It's high season for local interest stories being national interest stories. People get shot all the time, it's news now because it sells better than three weeks ago.
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#8 Dec 25 2012 at 12:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Is it the high season for crazy or something?

It's high season for local interest stories being national interest stories. People get shot all the time, it's news now because it sells better than three weeks ago.


Yar. Around ninety people a day die of gun related deaths in the US. Although many are suicide related, this type of stuff isn't exactly uncommon.
#9 Dec 25 2012 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Is it the high season for crazy or something?

Actually, yeah. With decreased sunshine and the emotional stress of the holidays, S.A.D. looks like a real phenomenon.
While not as common, I believe I remember reading somewhere that Summer SAD is generally more acute.
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#10 Dec 25 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Paskil wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Is it the high season for crazy or something?

It's high season for local interest stories being national interest stories. People get shot all the time, it's news now because it sells better than three weeks ago.


Yar. Around ninety people a day die of gun related deaths in the US. Although many are suicide related, this type of stuff isn't exactly uncommon.

Yeah, I get and support the notion that we get excited about specific tragic events when dozens of people are killed in commonplace criminal actions every day. But still, committing arson to lure firefighters into your shooting trap is uncommon, and at least interesting to talk about even if it doesn't mean anything beyond "crazy old convicted murderer is still crazy."
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#11 Dec 26 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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So, do we know how crazy guy 4.0 got his weapons?

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 8:21am by someproteinguy
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#12 Dec 26 2012 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Last I heard there were some weapon thefts in the area but the police couldn't figure out who it was until after the shooting. Give me a bit I will look it up to verify.

Edit: Fox news gives us more details than other sites, including that remains of his sister is in the charred remains of his house.
Quote:
Spengler was armed with a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, a .38-caliber revolver and a 12-gauge shotgun, cops said. The Bushmaster rifle used by Spengler is the same make and caliber semiautomatic rifle as the one used in the Connecticut school massacre.


Edit2: Derp that didn't answer your question. I couldn't find the source where it states how he armed himself. Either I imagined it or I am too slow today. Now if you excuse me I got to caffeine up.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 11:50am by Criminy

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 11:52am by Criminy
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#13 Dec 26 2012 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Criminy wrote:
Now if you excuse me I got to caffeine up.


Please share if you have extra. Smiley: boozing
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#14 Dec 26 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Criminy wrote:
Now if you excuse me I got to caffeine up.


Please share if you have extra. Smiley: boozing


No! My precious...

I did a bit more digging and found this source that states it is possible that he could have purchased them in a different state or even at a gun show. The former is annoying but the latter is disturbing.

Quote:
While it is true that Spengler’s acquiring weapons legally would have been next-to-impossible in New York, a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country, the same could not be said had he committed his murderous assault 200 miles to the southwest in Ohio, where judges are more lenient in reinstating former felons’ gun ownership rights.

Or Spengler could just have traveled to the nearest gun show and purchased weapons through a loophole that excludes these expos from checking criminal backgrounds. Regardless of his revoked gun owership rights, it’s easy in America for a psychotic ex-convict to illegally acquire weapons (or in some cases petition for gun rights reinstatement) because states have vastly different approaches to the right to keep and bear arms.
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#15 Dec 28 2012 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Criminy wrote:
Now if you excuse me I got to caffeine up.


Please share if you have extra. Smiley: boozing


No! My precious...

I did a bit more digging and found this source that states it is possible that he could have purchased them in a different state or even at a gun show. The former is annoying but the latter is disturbing.

Quote:
While it is true that Spengler’s acquiring weapons legally would have been next-to-impossible in New York, a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country, the same could not be said had he committed his murderous assault 200 miles to the southwest in Ohio, where judges are more lenient in reinstating former felons’ gun ownership rights.

Or Spengler could just have traveled to the nearest gun show and purchased weapons through a loophole that excludes these expos from checking criminal backgrounds. Regardless of his revoked gun owership rights, it’s easy in America for a psychotic ex-convict to illegally acquire weapons (or in some cases petition for gun rights reinstatement) because states have vastly different approaches to the right to keep and bear arms.

I hesitate to call that a "source" since all it did was state ways that he could have acquired weapons, and snidely opine on the judicial branch in the Armpit of America.
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#16 Dec 28 2012 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:

I hesitate to call that a "source" since all it did was state ways that he could have acquired weapons, and snidely opine on the judicial branch in the Armpit of America.


Hence why I said " possible that he could have purchased them " and not " he did ". Here is a link with citation at the bottom commenting on the problem with the gun show loophole.
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#17 Dec 29 2012 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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This episode of Vanguard delves into gun shows, gun trafficking, etc. Perhaps highly sensationalized, but entertaining education.
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#18 Dec 29 2012 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regarding gun shows... that really is the one big loophole that absolutely needs to be closed. In this day and age, if someone can't bring along a laptop to a gunshow for online, same-day criminal background checks, then all our technology has failed us and is useless and we might as well stop checking for backgrounds in stores, too.
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