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A firearm question for you LeftiesFollow

#452 Jan 23 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Clearly we should let people build missile silos in their backyards.


***** my earlier comments, I'm going with the backyard missile silo idea.

This needs to happen.


Here you go. Supplies are limited, get yours fast before some liberal has a hissy fit. Smiley: nod
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#453 Jan 23 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
It's like I'm being lectured on gun control by Vishnu.


Goddamnit, it's a grey area, it's complicated. Smiley: mad
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#454 Jan 23 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
On one hand you have people who have a relatively clean slate, peppered with a touch of concern about their mental health going ape-sh*t on a school. [...] The other extreme you have a career criminal...
...I would have hated to have given him a gun on campus. On the other hand despite the school being a gun-free zone guns were commonly brought to school anyway. [...]
On one hand it was crime without a gun, on the other that was unsettling enough without imagining him with a firearm.

It's like I'm being lectured on gun control by Vishnu.

I was hearing Tevye, "There is no other hand!"

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#455 Jan 23 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Goddamnit, it's a grey area, it's complicated.

No, it isn't actually. A guy who stabs someone with a knife can go buy a knife the moment he's released from prison. Why isn't that "complicated". What "complicates" the gun thing is the mass of terrified white guys with tiny ***** and dwindling economic prospects trying to find some sort of way to feel powerful, and us deciding we should enable that with weapons capable of mass murder instead of ****** cars or some other coded status symbol.
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#456 Jan 23 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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If we'd finally start giving people the respect they deserve for their COD4 rankings or Borderlands 2 achievements, we wouldn't need real guns so much in order to feel strong and worthwhile.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 11:36am by Jophiel
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#457 Jan 23 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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We should ban video games, Joph. They're the reason we're all gun-violent, have ridiculous road rage issues, and have massive NFL contracts.
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#458 Jan 23 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
If we'd finally start giving people the respect they deserve for their COD4 rankings or Borderlands 2 achievements, we wouldn't need real guns so much in order to feel strong and worthwhile.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 11:36am by Jophiel

I shouldn't be hard to grow bigger ***** on white guys.

In fact, the government could even sponsor big ***** in their gun control legislation.

....gotta do it - Obamacocks.
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#459 Jan 23 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
We should ban video games, Joph.


We need more video games, very addicting ones. In addition, better t.v. shows, more ****, and faster internet speeds. Gotta keep those kids off the streets and out of trouble.

Smasharoo wrote:
or some other coded status symbol.


Ugly tattoos apparently. I still don't get this trendy stuff.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 9:58am by someproteinguy
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#460 Jan 23 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
I shouldn't be hard to grow bigger ***** on white guys.

Someone's dissatisfied with her options up there in Maine...
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#461 Jan 23 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I shouldn't be hard to grow bigger ***** on white guys.
Someone's dissatisfied with her options up there in Maine...
I just keep thinking this scene.

To answer your question, something like that.
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#462 Jan 23 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:
The question is whether actual overall crime/violence/murder rates are lower because of gun control and there's very close to zero evidence that one affects the other.


Norway and US crimes stats compare away.



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#463 Jan 23 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The question is whether actual overall crime/violence/murder rates are lower because of gun control and there's very close to zero evidence that one affects the other.


Norway and US crimes stats compare away.


Just to put some of those numbers that aren't 'per capita' into perspective: the United States has about 66 times as many people as Norway.
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#464 Jan 23 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Norway has a greater software piracy rate. See? Too busy with the Call of Duty and the Borderlands to be killing one another in real life...
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#465 Jan 23 2013 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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That website sucks, its missing lots of stuff. **** The US homicide rate isn't even on their list neither is Canada nor Britain.

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#467 Jan 23 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
That website sucks


Wait... but you were the one who...

I mean...

never mind. Smiley: rolleyes
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#468 Jan 23 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
That website sucks


Wait... but you were the one who...

I mean...

never mind. Smiley: rolleyes


Ya I didn't full go through the sit till after. I literally typed Norway vs US crime rates into google and that is the page it gave me. Now I feel bad because that site is garbage. While it does have some accuracy (US crime rate is lower per capita than Norways) it is imposible to really get any information other than that. Really all it shows is that the US has better crime prevention (87% of americans believe it is good compared to Norways 70%) and higher incarcerations. Other than that it is missing piles of stuff no violent crime comparisons is a big one, no data on homicides other than youth murders.

I @#%^ed up and got lazy...


Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 4:39pm by rdmcandie
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#469 Jan 23 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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Criminy wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
Why not allow someone the chance to intervene? Why not give those people the best chance possible of successfully intervening?


Time and time again that rambo thinking ends up getting the would-be hero either wounded or killed. We have pointed this out to you but you keep ignoring it.


Um... Because you're wrong? Do you have any source showing that armed civilians intervening in a shooting increases the number of fatalities? At all? Repeating a false assumption doesn't make it true.

The most relevant statistic is that when someone with a gun (whether civilian or uniformed police) arrives on scene and confronts a shooter during a mass shooting (or potential mass shooting), the number of random civilians deaths after that point drops to zero. We can sit her and speculate about what might happen, but in every case I can find (and that others on the internet have examined), the death rate for anyone not either the shooter or police (or armed civilian) in such cases is zero once an armed person confronts the shooter. I can find no case of mass shooting (or potential mass shooting) where the shooter continued to kill random victims in the area after being so confronted.

So it doesn't matter what you think might happen. The data tells us that the faster we can get any armed person to confront a shooter in a situation like that, the fewer people will die. Period. When shooters are confronted with armed opposition they tend to do one of four things: Flee, surrender, fight with the other armed person (incredibly rare btw), or kill themselves. They do *not* ignore the armed person and continue shooting at random people in the area. You're arguing for a statistically unsupported assumption.


It's interesting because there's this great fear that if faculty were allowed to bring guns to school it would cause all sorts of problems. But do you have anything other than your own fear to support this? Is there hard data telling us how likely those guns might be used in some harmful way? I hadn't even thought about it at the time, but when we first started talking about this topic (in the other thread), I checked out a site that contained a list of all the school shootings in US history. I think it was here. Interestingly enough, while there are a **** of a lot of "guy kills his girlfriend and himself" type incidents back in the day, I think I only found *one* incident where a shooting occurred because a teacher had a gun in school at it was either taken and used, or accidentally went off (it was the latter IIRC). That's one time in the entire history of the US.

Yet, despite the absence of any evidence to support that fear, it seems to drive the entire argument. I just find that bizarre. There's tons of evidence of armed civilians being able to stop or reduce the number of deaths in a potential mass shooting, and pretty much zero evidence that they're presence will somehow make things worse, yet you assume the latter and dismiss the former. Again, that's just bizarre. You're willing to oppose action with a well founded track record of helping in precisely the situation we're discussing (mass shootings at schools) because of a completely unfounded set of fears. That's totally irrational.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 4:16pm by gbaji
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#470 Jan 23 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Repeating a false assumption doesn't make it true.
And yet, here you are ...
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#471 Jan 23 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
That website sucks


Wait... but you were the one who...

I mean...

never mind. Smiley: rolleyes


Ya I didn't full go through the sit till after. I literally typed Norway vs US crime rates into google and that is the page it gave me. Now I feel bad because that site is garbage. While it does have some accuracy (US crime rate is lower per capita than Norways) it is imposible to really get any information other than that. Really all it shows is that the US has better crime prevention (87% of americans believe it is good compared to Norways 70%) and higher incarcerations. Other than that it is missing piles of stuff no violent crime comparisons is a big one, no data on homicides other than youth murders.


Also... wait for it... The US and Norway are different countries. They are on different continents. They have different socioeconomic conditions. Different histories. Different cultures. This bizarre idea that you can point the finger of blame for differences in crime rates on one thing (guns) is ridiculous. Which was the whole point I was trying to get across when I mentioned it in the first place.
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#472 Jan 23 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Repeating a false assumption doesn't make it true.
And yet, here you are ...


Except what I'm saying isn't false.
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#473 Jan 23 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Repeating a false assumption doesn't make it true.
And yet, here you are ...
Except what I'm saying isn't false.
Repeating a false assumption doesn't make it true. Smiley: smile
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#474 Jan 23 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, and just to get the ball rolling: You've yet to provide any proof of a civilian running half a mile to get a gun and preventing killings in a school.
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#475 Jan 23 2013 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Also... wait for it... The US and Norway are different countries. They are on different continents. They have different socioeconomic conditions. Different histories. Different cultures. This bizarre idea that you can point the finger of blame for differences in crime rates on one thing (guns) is ridiculous.

So you're saying we're doing a whole bunch of things wrong rather than just one? I can agree with that. They do have a much better social support system and robust public schooling that works, for instance. See, now we have THREE things we can take from them!

I'm betting they also have less people rubbing their ***** on their guns while chanting "Precious liberty! Stop Obama!" over and over again. So maybe make that four things...
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#476 Jan 23 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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That's harsh, dude. I don't chant.
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#477 Jan 23 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Default
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Gbaji wrote:
The overall homicide rate in Norway is .6, while it's 4.8 in the US. So in the US, 77% of all homicides are committed via firearm, while in Norway only 6.6% are. But put another way, the ratio of homicides committed with something other than a firearm is much higher in Norway than in the US, right? That strongly suggests that when guns aren't available, people still try to commit crimes (and murders). They just use other tools to do so.


Are you intentionally omitting the fact that simplicity plays a major factor? Ever heard of the saying "keeping the innocent innocent" (or something similar)? The more effort a person has to do to commit a crime, the less likely a person will commit a crime.
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#478 Jan 23 2013 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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Also, not to pick on the obvious, but Gbaji was the nimrod who brought Norway into the equation by pointing out a single incident and drawing comparisons between Norway and the US. Now that that went tits up for him, he's saying "They're different countries! Stop comparing them!!" Smiley: laugh
Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
The overall homicide rate in Norway is .6, while it's 4.8 in the US. So in the US, 77% of all homicides are committed via firearm, while in Norway only 6.6% are. But put another way, the ratio of homicides committed with something other than a firearm is much higher in Norway than in the US, right? That strongly suggests that when guns aren't available, people still try to commit crimes (and murders). They just use other tools to do so.
Are you intentionally omitting the fact that simplicity plays a major factor? Ever heard of the saying "keeping the innocent innocent" (or something similar)? The more effort a person has to do to commit a crime, the less likely a person will commit a crime.

This is also ignoring the fact that, while folks have always tried to find ways to assist their fellow man in shuffling off his mortal coil, they are doing it much less frequently in Norway without firearms.

It's like saying people have always robbed banks. Sure, but if the police have Crown Victorias and the bank robbers have Appaloosas, the bank robbers are going to be a **** of a lot less successful even if they do still give it a go now and then (and even sometimes succeed).

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 7:01pm by Jophiel
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#479 Jan 23 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Criminy wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
Why not allow someone the chance to intervene? Why not give those people the best chance possible of successfully intervening?


Time and time again that rambo thinking ends up getting the would-be hero either wounded or killed. We have pointed this out to you but you keep ignoring it.


Um... Because you're wrong? Do you have any source showing that armed civilians intervening in a shooting increases the number of fatalities? At all? Repeating a false assumption doesn't make it true.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 4:16pm by gbaji


You seriously want me to dig through the forum to pull up links that you have seen before and will just say "those don't count because they don't align with my views on the subject"?

It should also be noted that when the person who decided they wanted to be the hero dies they increase the number of fatalities in a shooting. I know counting is hard and all with someone that has such a tremendous intellect such as yours but on the bright side you can use your fingers for that.
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#480 Jan 23 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Oh, and just to get the ball rolling: You've yet to provide any proof of a civilian running half a mile to get a gun and preventing killings in a school.


Nothing I provide for you will be considered "proof" by you. I could link this article, if you want:

Quote:
Assistant Principal Joel Myrick heard the first shot and saw Woodham with a gun. Myrick had a .45 in his pickup truck parked a quarter-mile away, off school property. You see, federal law said he couldn’t bring that gun onto school property.


Or this article

Quote:
This episode came to a close when Pearl High School Assistant Principal Joel Myrick sprinted a quarter mile to retrieve a personal handgun from his car and confronted the shooter who was unwilling to continue the attack against an armed victim.


Or this article

Quote:
In the case of Pearl High School, the assistant principal Joel Myrick, hearing shots in the building, ran to his vehicle parked off of school property to fetch his pistol. (it was about 1/4 mile away because you can't have guns on school property).


Or this one. Admittedly, the same site, so whatever.

Quote:
Assistant Principal Joel Myrick ran a quarter of a mile to his vehicle and returned with his .45 pistol.


Or this article

Quote:
An assistant principal ran over a quarter of a mile to retrieve a gun from his car and then ran back.



Obviously, I have no idea if those writing the articles were just making this up, or repeating something they heard, or what. But I didn't invent this, and the need to have this happen certainly seems to be supported by the restrictions of the law itself. What more do you want?
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#481 Jan 23 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Also, not to pick on the obvious, but Gbaji was the nimrod who brought Norway into the equation by pointing out a single incident and drawing comparisons between Norway and the US.


Um... The point of the comparison was simply to show that even a nation like Norway, with strict gun control and relatively little crime, can still suffer mass shootings. That was it. Any other comparison was made by you, not me.

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#482 Jan 23 2013 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... The point of the comparison was simply to show that even a nation like Norway, with strict gun control and relatively little crime, can still suffer mass shootings.

Which is meaningless without the context of how often it does so. So if you mean "I meant to say something completely meaningless" then congratulations, I guess.
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#483 Jan 23 2013 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
What more do you want?
I like that you cited the same story over and over again, but there's one massive problem. You said civilian. I asked for civilian. You gave me a US Army Reserves commander. What more do I want? I want you to read your own **** stories you cite as proof of what you claim. You said he saw it, when every story on the guy states he didn't act until he heard shots. You said it was a bolt action, when a little google search would show otherwise. You keep stating civilian when the guy CLEARLY isn't. What do I consider proof? "Things that can be proven," and you have yet to do so. I could also point out that it's basically speculation that he stopped Luke with the gun, since the story states Luke crashed the car when he saw Joel in front of him, but as usual I'll make it easy on you and just allow that little detail because, like I said, it's speculation and he could have just as easily freaked from the gun as he could have from the body itself. But you know, not really proof. *Edit* I also find it somewhat suspicious that all the searches I've done on the story from 1997 don't mention the distance Myrick ran, yet it suddenly comes up in 2000, and in 2004, and 2010, 2012. I mean, I don't see anywhere that says he didn't but you'd think in four pages of searching there'd be one mention of it the year it actually happened.

So, get to it. Find a story with a civilian that ran half a mile and stopped a shooting like you said there were cases of. Multiple. You'd think this would be easy.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2013 10:25pm by lolgaxe
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#484 Jan 23 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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why would you need a civilian Lolgaxe? Everyone knows each school comes equipped with a retired Green Beret teaching Freshman English.
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#485 Jan 23 2013 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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Oh yeah, I know he's going to quickly spin to "Okay, maybe it wasn't a civilian but that certainly doesn't mean the lunch lady on the first floor won't stop a genocide on the third floor with her ma duece," but it's the principle. He's been going on and ON AND ON about how a single civilian is more than enough. It's tiresome.
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#486 Jan 24 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... The point of the comparison was simply to show that even a nation like Norway, with strict gun control and relatively little crime, can still suffer mass shootings.

Which is meaningless without the context of how often it does so.


It's meaningful within the context of idiots shouting about how we must pass strict gun control in order to prevent mass shootings. Which was the exact context in which I made the comment. Since you've already acknowledged that strict gun control doesn't ensure a nation free of mass shootings, I'll consider my point made and won. Let's move on, ok?
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#487 Jan 24 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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It's meaningful within the context of idiots shouting about how we must pass strict gun control in order to prevent mass shootings. Which was the exact context in which I made the comment. Since you've already acknowledged that strict gun control doesn't ensure a nation free of mass shootings, I'll consider my point made and won. Let's move on, ok?

Good point. Good thing all of the other laws we pass to create an ordered society all work perfectly. That law against murder we passed? Man, I'm glad we did that, now the murder rate is 0! Similarly, those laws against drunk driving, bam, no alcohol related car accidents. I just can't get over how STUPID people are thinking that stricter gun control might lead to there never, ever, again being a gun related death when you have clear evidence it's not the case! Those idiots!
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#488 Jan 24 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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No no no no no, Smash. What gbaji says is that if the secretary is allowed to carry her .17 that she'll for certain stop someone from killing everyone on the other side of the school. Sure, some of those kids are as good as dead, but sure as shootin' not all of them.
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#489 Jan 24 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well they would have all been saved if you'd just arm every faculty member. Smiley: disappointed
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#490 Jan 24 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
What more do you want?
I like that you cited the same story over and over again, but there's one massive problem.


In your head, perhaps. You asked me to provide sources that in this particular case, the assistant principle had to run a quarter mile to get to his gun. I provided multiple sources. Again. What more do you want?

Quote:
You said civilian. I asked for civilian. You gave me a US Army Reserves commander.


Now you're going to quibble over what is meant by civilian? As a member of the US Army Reserves, does this guy have any more legal right to carry a weapon in a school zone than any one else? No? Civilian in the context means anyone who is not an on duty law enforcement officer acting within his legal jurisdiction and therefore allowed to legally carry a firearm under the LEO exception in the statute in question.

We're talking about a change in the law. The law currently prohibits him from carrying a weapon while on campus. Whatever we want to call him, that's the relevant point. Way to miss the forest for one really stupid tree though.

Quote:
What more do I want? I want you to read your own **** stories you cite as proof of what you claim. You said he saw it, when every story on the guy states he didn't act until he heard shots.


WTF difference does that make? Really? That's what you're going to argue about? Who cares if he saw or heard the shooting start. At some point he became aware of a shooting, decided to intervene, but because his weapon had to be kept in his car 1000 feet off school grounds, he had to run "a quarter mile" to get to it, then run back, and then confront the shooter. You're arguing over irrelevant details. The important ones are that the law made it take longer for him to confront the shooter with his own weapon.

Quote:
You said it was a bolt action, when a little google search would show otherwise


Why does this matter for the point I'm making? WTF is wrong with you? You've lost the argument so you've chosen to try to make it about every **** thing except the actual point of contention. I don't recall any part of my argument hinging on what kind of weapon the shooter was using.

Quote:
You keep stating civilian when the guy CLEARLY isn't.


The law treats him as someone not authorized to carry a weapon in a school zone. When not on duty, he is a civilian. WTF? Did stupid just jump in your brain today?


Edited, Jan 24th 2013 12:12pm by gbaji
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#491 Jan 24 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I just can't get over how STUPID people are thinking that stricter gun control might lead to there never, ever, again being a gun related death when you have clear evidence it's not the case! Those idiots!


And yet, several posters on this forum are supporting the actions proposed by those stupid idiots, aren't they? So it is kinda relevant to point out how stupid the core argument is.
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#492 Jan 24 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
In your head, perhaps. You asked me to provide sources that in this particular case, the assistant principle had to run a quarter mile to get to his gun.
lolgaxe wrote:
You've yet to provide any proof of a civilian running half a mile to get a gun and preventing killings in a school.
Or are you going to argue now that somehow I wrote what I didn't want and you just happen to know better? Go on.
gbaji wrote:
As a member of the US Army Reserves, does this guy have any more legal right to carry a weapon around than any one else? No?
No but he clearly has more training which I've been pointing out that you've been ignoring like the happy little shitstain that you are, but again cry and change your argument when it suits you. Like no one saw that coming. Smiley: laugh Better than manning up and saying you made a mistake, or even better finding actual proof. But then again, considering how often you tend to say:
gbaji wrote:
You're arguing over irrelevant details.
- every time a pesky "detail" completely annihilates your argument it really is no surprise at all. You can't just say "here's proof that what I'm saying is correct!" and then cry that the details don't match up and call those irrelevant..
gbaji wrote:
Who cares if he saw or heard the shooting start
You did when you brought it up as proof of your stance, and by your stance I mean the party line.
gbaji wrote:
Why does this matter for the point I'm making?
Again, an amusing massive error on your behalf that you stated as a fact to bolster your claims. You're falsifying information to "get your point across," and I'm simply correcting you time and again, and you're crying over it. It really is that simple.
gbaji wrote:
Did stupid just jump in your brain today?
Every time you post. Smiley: smile

So you're going to cry, or you going to get to it and find proof of what you claim?

Edited, Jan 24th 2013 3:21pm by lolgaxe
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#493 Jan 24 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:

Quote:
You said civilian. I asked for civilian. You gave me a US Army Reserves commander.


Now you're going to quibble over what is meant by civilian? As a member of the US Army Reserves, does this guy have any more legal right to carry a weapon in a school zone than any one else? No? Civilian in the context means anyone who is not an on duty law enforcement officer acting within his legal jurisdiction and therefore allowed to legally carry a firearm under the LEO exception in the statute in question.

We're talking about a change in the law. The law currently prohibits him from carrying a weapon while on campus. Whatever we want to call him, that's the relevant point. Way to miss the forest for one really stupid tree though.


I could see whole point carrying more weight if you could point to someone who didn't have police/military/etc training. I'm assuming you can here; and there's gotta be a better example. I mean, your average secretary (yes, I used that one for simplicity sake) doesn't receive firearms training from the government.

And beaten to it, but still too stubborn to delete my post... Smiley: glare

Edited, Jan 24th 2013 12:21pm by someproteinguy
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#494 Jan 24 2013 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Since you've already acknowledged that strict gun control doesn't ensure a nation free of mass shootings, I'll consider my point made and won. Let's move on, ok?

Since you're frantic to stop talking about the success of nations with strict gun control, I'll consider your point made as well Smiley: laugh
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#495 Jan 24 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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#496 Jan 24 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I could see whole point carrying more weight if you could point to someone who didn't have police/military/etc training.


Why? Most people who obtain carry permits do have police or military training. They're excluded from carrying their weapons (while off duty) in these areas, just like anyone else. So why exclude them? Several people made snarky remarks about how a faculty member at a school isn't going to be qualified to deal with a shooter even if armed, complete with jokes about Rambo, yet now we discount the guy who was reserve army because... why? Because it doesn't fit the narrative?

Quote:
I'm assuming you can here; and there's gotta be a better example. I mean, your average secretary (yes, I used that one for simplicity sake) doesn't receive firearms training from the government.


Your average secretary isn't likely to have a concealed weapons permit. The law prevents those who do from being able to carry them in school zones, even those who are off duty police, and members of our military. It's a bit ridiculous to insist that allowing them to do so would just hand guns to untrained folks in our schools while simultaneously insisting that those who do have training somehow don't count when looking at cases where civilians have intervened in shootings. If we excluded everyone who has received any sort of training from the discussion, we're excluding a large portion of the very group we're talking about.

Quote:
And beaten to it, but still too stubborn to delete my post... Smiley: glare


Your post was far more to the point though.
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#497 Jan 24 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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quote from article wrote:
“It’s unfortunate that we have to have that, but it’s the best message we can send to anybody that thinks to harm our children,” Mr. Jones told CBS Los Angeles. “The message we’re sending is …


Seems to have been done to project a militant image.

Well, that's great. We should all be able to live in a police state.
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#498 Jan 24 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Because it doesn't fit the narrative?
Because it is the complete opposite of what you claimed as fact.
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#499 Jan 24 2013 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Depends on who the "officials" are who would have access to them in an emergency. If it's just a lock box that only police have the key to, then it's not going to have much effect. If select (but not publicized) people on campus have the key, then it will work.
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#500 Jan 24 2013 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Because it doesn't fit the narrative?
Because it is the complete opposite of what you claimed as fact.


When off duty a member of the military (and the police for that matter) is a civilian legally. Certainly, he's treated as such in the context of the gun free zones we're talking about.
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#501 Jan 24 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
When off duty a member of the military (and the police for that matter) is a civilian legally.
Wow, one statement wrong in two ways. You're only considered "civilian" off duty if you're E4 or below, and even if you want to try to suggest an E4 was commander his training doesn't disappear when he is off duty.
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