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#52 Dec 15 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not buying the whole "mental illness". "Mental illness" could be anything. It could be that he was suffering from bulimia. I'm not going to degrade whatever his illness was , but at the same time, I'm not going to pardon his actions simply based on a broad statement of a "mental disorder". I heard that it was planned and I'm guessing that his mental illness did not prevent him from knowing good from bad in this scenario.

Who gives a fuck? He's dead. He won already. Judge all you want, or don't, doesn't matter. You and everyone else is completely powerless to do absolutely anything at all about this. Completely powerless. That's the beauty of fetishising violent revenge fantasies in a society, basically anyone can live the dream so long as they kill themselves in the end. This guy nailed it. He'll be incredibly famous, got the attention he clearly craved and will pay absolutely no cost, suffer no judgement from society. Just the way we sell it to the kids. He had a particular set of skills that apparently included shooting children in the face. That made him a nightmare for people like us.

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#53 Dec 15 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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He'll be incredibly famous, got the attention he clearly craved and will pay absolutely no cost, suffer no judgement from society.


Well, unless you count being dead as a cost, like most people do Smiley: rolleyes
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#54 Dec 15 2012 at 8:29 AM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
I'm not buying the whole "mental illness". "Mental illness" could be anything. It could be that he was suffering from bulimia. I'm not going to degrade whatever his illness was , but at the same time, I'm not going to pardon his actions simply based on a broad statement of a "mental disorder". I heard that it was planned and I'm guessing that his mental illness did not prevent him from knowing good from bad in this scenario.

Who gives a fuck? He's dead. He won already. Judge all you want, or don't, doesn't matter. You and everyone else is completely powerless to do absolutely anything at all about this. Completely powerless. That's the beauty of fetishising violent revenge fantasies in a society, basically anyone can live the dream so long as they kill themselves in the end. This guy nailed it. He'll be incredibly famous, got the attention he clearly craved and will pay absolutely no cost, suffer no judgement from society. Just the way we sell it to the kids. He had a particular set of skills that apparently included shooting children in the face. That made him a nightmare for people like us.



I guess I failed to point out the most important part. It's not about him, but his family. People might very well take out their emotions on the family. "Your brother killed my 'x'". Claiming his sickness can be a way to distance themselves to that connection.

Edited, Dec 16th 2012 2:10am by Almalieque
#55 Dec 15 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Any idiot who starts spouting off about 2nd ammendment bs is just that, an idiot. Banning guns would work about as well, probably even less so, than banning alcohol did. When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels? Of the last 100 or so incidents, how many were of this nature?

Go ahead, I'll wait while you figure it out.


Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but I'm not sure if there's ever been a mass shooter who didn't obtain his weapons via legal channels. I suppose there might be the occasional illegal weapon in there, but generally the answer to you questions are "the last one; nearly all of them". I get what you're trying to say (that in the absence of the ability to obtain firearms legally, people who want them will obtain them illegally), but that was a pretty weak way to go about it.

A better argument along the same lines is that currently since mass shooters tend to obtain their firearms legally, they tend to use legal firearms to commit their crimes. If their only choice is to obtain them illegally, then we'd actually start seeing fully automatic weapons used in such shootings and death tolls would go up dramatically. Was that what you were trying to say?
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#56 Dec 15 2012 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Any idiot who starts spouting off about 2nd ammendment bs is just that, an idiot. Banning guns would work about as well, probably even less so, than banning alcohol did. When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels? Of the last 100 or so incidents, how many were of this nature?

Go ahead, I'll wait while you figure it out.


Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but I'm not sure if there's ever been a mass shooter who didn't obtain his weapons via legal channels.

And again (cough)
Guns legal or not
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#57gbaji, Posted: Dec 15 2012 at 11:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Correct. But never underestimate the value of emotion over reason!
#58 Dec 15 2012 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:


Fine. Propose a change then. Tell me what you think the 2nd amendment should say, and what our gun laws should be.


Shooting from the hip here zing, I'd propose banning the possession of any gun that is not a single shot hunting rifle or shotgun. Banning the manufacture and sale of those guns in USA, and destroying every one of those guns found. Eventually theyd be gone and out of reach from anyone except organized crime. You can still defend yourself from an intruder on your property with a shotgun.

A single shot weapon is much more similar to what they had in mind when they wrote the 2nd amendment anyway.

Without the access to the guns, I bet this guy would have still killed his family, probably with a knife, but hey a bunch of little kids would get to have christmas at least.

Before you say the pyschos would just use something different like a bomb, I think a bomb is siginificantly more difficult to obtain and gun control would still lower the rate of killing sprees substantially.
#59 Dec 15 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Before you say the psychos would just use something different like a bomb, I think a bomb is significantly more difficult to obtain and gun control would still lower the rate of killing sprees substantially.


Bombs aren't significantly more difficult to obtain.

In typical cases, It's significantly less fun to kill someone with a bomb than a gun though.
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#60 Dec 15 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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A bomb isnt harder to obtain than a bunch of guns from your parents? A gun that you can buy in a shop? Is there some Bomb Store that I'm unaware of?
#61 Dec 15 2012 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is there some Bomb Store that I'm unaware of?
Ten to fifteen bucks at any home repair shop.
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#62 Dec 15 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
KTurner wrote:
Is there some Bomb Store that I'm unaware of?
Ten to fifteen bucks at any home repair shop.

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#63 Dec 15 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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And yet people go through the effort and expense of amassing firearms, ammo and accessories for these killing sprees rather than dropping $10 at Home Depot for a bomb making kit. Which would suggest that, for whatever reason, they're not especially capable of or interested in making bombs but shooting people with guns and bullets.

The whole "they would just use [X]" argument is a lazy one on several levels.

Edited, Dec 15th 2012 1:50pm by Jophiel
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#64 Dec 15 2012 at 3:32 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
And yet people go through the effort and expense of amassing firearms, ammo and accessories for these killing sprees rather than dropping $10 at Home Depot for a bomb making kit. Which would suggest that, for whatever reason, they're not especially capable of or interested in making bombs but shooting people with guns and bullets.

The whole "they would just use [X]" argument is a lazy one on several levels.

Edited, Dec 15th 2012 1:50pm by Jophiel


Given the fact that the killer can choose any of those hypothetical weapons, yet still chooses the good 'ol hand gun should support that notion.
#65 Dec 15 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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So from the little bits of news that have gotten through over here, the guy was apparently suffering from some sort of mental disorder but didn't receive any treatment for that.
I'm more baffled about why you'd have guns around the house of someone who is mentally unstable in the first place and why the **** he wasn't getting any treatment. There's probably a whole lot more going on before they snap and start shooting up random people.


Are there actually any statistics on how many of these guys that snap were known to have (severe) mental health problems?
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#66 Dec 15 2012 at 6:15 PM Rating: Default
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
So from the little bits of news that have gotten through over here, the guy was apparently suffering from some sort of mental disorder but didn't receive any treatment for that.
I'm more baffled about why you'd have guns around the house of someone who is mentally unstable in the first place and why the **** he wasn't getting any treatment. There's probably a whole lot more going on before they snap and start shooting up random people.


Are there actually any statistics on how many of these guys that snap were known to have (severe) mental health problems?


Like I said, don't read too much into what's coming out now. "Mental illness" can be anything from bulimic to bi-polar (talkative/quiet), etc. I haven't heard anything yet that suggests that his illness had a play in the matter. Sources say that the attack was planned, so he wasn't mentally retarded, i.e., he knew what he was doing.
#67 Dec 15 2012 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I agree with the "why would you have guns in the house with a mentally unstable teenager", but we have no evidence that he wasn't undergoing treatment.
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#68 Dec 15 2012 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
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Merry Christmas! I wonder how many people get a firearm as a gift this year?
Baby Jesus would approve......


Well, at least that didn't take long.




I have actually changed my mind about gun control. In the past I used to think that gun control should be stricter to stop people in the USA killing so many fellow humans.
Now, I dont believe gun control would have any effect at all. What I believe now is that there are enough people in the USA who are so spiritually lost, so morally fuctup, that they would just carry on killing regardless of the methods.

Also GFY.
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#69 Dec 15 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
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paulsol wrote:
gbaji wrote:
paulsol wrote:
Merry Christmas! I wonder how many people get a firearm as a gift this year?
Baby Jesus would approve......


Well, at least that didn't take long.




I have actually changed my mind about gun control. In the past I used to think that gun control should be stricter to stop people in the USA killing so many fellow humans.
Now, I dont believe gun control would have any effect at all. What I believe now is that there are enough people in the USA who are so spiritually lost, so morally fuctup, that they would just carry on killing regardless of the methods.

Also GFY.


Given the current situation, that's an interesting change of thought.
#70 Dec 15 2012 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
And yet people go through the effort and expense of amassing firearms, ammo and accessories for these killing sprees rather than dropping $10 at Home Depot for a bomb making kit. Which would suggest that, for whatever reason, they're not especially capable of or interested in making bombs but shooting people with guns and bullets.

The whole "they would just use [X]" argument is a lazy one on several levels.

Edited, Dec 15th 2012 1:50pm by Jophiel


Like I said, it's a lot more exciting to actively shoot someone, rather than set up a bomb and waiting.
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#71 Dec 15 2012 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Given that countries with much stricter gun laws aren't awash in cleaning solution bombings, I guess that "excitement" must be quite the kicker.

Edited, Dec 15th 2012 10:10pm by Jophiel
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#72 Dec 15 2012 at 10:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Like I said, it's a lot more excitingeasier to shoot someone, rather than set up a bomb.
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#73 Dec 15 2012 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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As a father of two young children, I've been having a hard time with this. Indeed, my wife had just had a talk with our four year old about starting school next fall, just before the news of this tragedy came to light. The problem I'm having, though, is the burning desire to make fun of it. Like with dead baby jokes, they just got funnier after I had babies of my own. I figure this is the right place for my outlet.

I'm just assuming this fuckwit wanted to become a Sith Lord by slaughtering younglings.
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#74 Dec 15 2012 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
Bipolar disorder goes way beyond "talkative/quiet." If you aren't actually going to appropriately describe something, don't bother at all. You're just making yourself look ignorant.
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#75 Dec 15 2012 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Bipolar disorder goes way beyond "talkative/quiet." If you aren't actually going to appropriately describe something, don't bother at all. You're just making yourself look ignorant.


Oh, they're saying he was bi-polar?
#76 Dec 15 2012 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, the most recent thing I heard was autism spectrum. Alma was just trolling about bipolar.
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