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Oh, Shoot (Connecticut)Follow

#1 Dec 14 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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News is still coming in, but it seems like 27 people are dead at an elementary school in CT, most of them children. Rumors I've heard is that the father of a kindergartener there was the shooter.

How do we think this'll go? Motives? Public reaction? Gun policy changes?

Edit More info: Suspect's name is Ryan Lanza, 24, white, from NJ. Rumors now say he killed his father at home, then drove to the school to kill his mother, who works there.

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 2:35pm by LockeColeMA

Edit2: New update! Shooter is now listed as Adam Lanza, 20. He had been carrying his brother Ryan's ID, hence why he was misnamed.

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 4:31pm by LockeColeMA
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#2 Dec 14 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Rumors I've heard is that the father of a kindergartener there was the shooter.


BBC was suggesting a 20 year-old with "ties to the school".

Quote:
How do we think this'll go? Motives? Public reaction? Gun policy changes?


The usual. You know the drill.


Ugh.
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#3 Dec 14 2012 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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The answer is more guns. Arm the kids, and this wouldn't have happened.
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#4 Dec 14 2012 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Ugh, saw that, too many shootings lately. Smiley: frown

What is it about the holidays that makes people want to kill other people?
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#5 Dec 14 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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The traffic.
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#6 Dec 14 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Wait what, I thought all we had for today was some Chinese guy stabbing children at an elementary school. Couldn't anyone have let either of them know the day was double booked?
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#7 Dec 14 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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It's bad enough when a high school student goes apesh*t after years of torment or some wackjob opens fire in a public theatre or mall, but to target an Elementary school specifically? Throw his body to the wolves; the coward doesn't even deserve a proper burial, IMO.
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#8 Dec 14 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Wait what, I thought all we had for today was some Chinese guy stabbing children at an elementary school. Couldn't anyone have let either of them know the day was double booked?


If it helps, I believe it's tomorrow there already.
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#9 Dec 14 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Guns don't kill people.
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#10 Dec 14 2012 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Guns don't kill people.

Bullets do.

Edit: There's no consitutional protection for bullets. BAN BULLETS NAO.

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 1:17pm by BrownDuck
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#11 Dec 14 2012 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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From what I read online, guy's name was Ryan Lanza. Found his facebook... white guy. Likes Mass Effect.

... bet he played as Renegade Shepard Smiley: glare

I could have the wrong guy, of course.
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#12 Dec 14 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
From what I read online, guy's name was Ryan Lanza. Found his facebook... white guy. Likes Mass Effect.

... bet he played as Renegade Shepard Smiley: glare

I could have the wrong guy, of course.


Unlikely. Although there is a lot of hate pages popping up on facebook. I am curious on the motive behind killing a bunch of kids though.

Edit: Ok assuming he was after his mother, why would he kill over a dozen kids in the process. Last I checked just the mere sight and sound of a gun is enough to scare them off.

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 2:49pm by Criminy
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#13 Dec 14 2012 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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#14 Dec 14 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmm 16.... sounds about right.
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#15 Dec 14 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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22.

I have no morals apparently. Smiley: rolleyes
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#16 Dec 14 2012 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
Edit: Ok assuming he was after his mother, why would he kill over a dozen kids in the process. Last I checked just the mere sight and sound of a gun is enough to scare them off.
Eliminating witnesses, maybe. Or simply mentally unstable. Not sure there's really anything to gain from trying to figure out his motive on that part.
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#17 Dec 14 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Fox news is already blaming video games.

Also, I could take 25 5 year old, apparently.

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 4:04pm by Omegavegeta
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#18 Dec 14 2012 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
22.

I have no morals apparently. Smiley: rolleyes


Same for me, lets go get some lunch money.
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#19 Dec 14 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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A disappointing side story that's resulted:

Internet Identifies, Threatens Wrong Man as Newtown Shooter
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#20 Dec 14 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Even if it was the right dude, why would anyone threaten a guy who's already dead?
#21 Dec 14 2012 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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New update is that the shooter is Adam Lanza, who was carrying his brother Ryan's ID (hence why they thought he was Ryan Lanza). The guy is 20 after all.
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#22 Dec 14 2012 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Merry Christmas! I wonder how many people get a firearm as a gift this year?
Baby Jesus would approve......
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#23 Dec 14 2012 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Wow... just wow... FUBAR.
Brit looking in from the outside here... when the hell are you going to get a lid on this over there?
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#24 Dec 14 2012 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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As always, The Onion is in top form. I'm so proud to share a hometown with this publication.

Can't even share the link because it has the word fuck in it. Should eliminate the filter in =4.

It's the top story. http://www.theonion.com/

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 5:27pm by Paskil
#25 Dec 14 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
Even if it was the right dude, why would anyone threaten a guy who's already dead?


Because people are stupid.

Terry Goodkind was onto something when he made those Wizard's Rules.
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#26 Dec 14 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thank God. If we don't murder a couple dozen children now and then, how else will the government know we're serious about overthrowing tyranny.

Throw their tiny corpses in with the rest of the cashed checks for those precious 2nd Amendment freedoms.
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#27 Dec 14 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Thank God. If we don't murder a couple dozen children now and then, how else will the government know we're serious about overthrowing tyranny.

Throw their tiny corpses in with the rest of the cashed checks for those precious 2nd Amendment freedoms.


This one is also relevant.
#28 Dec 14 2012 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
Even if it was the right dude, why would anyone threaten a guy who's already dead?


Because people are stupid.

Terry Goodkind was onto something when he made those Wizard's Rules.


But wizards are supposed to be smart!

On a side note, I do think it's hilarious that he created all those rules, then goes out of his way to show that Richard doesn't follow them because he doesn't know better, which causes him to get into these huge scrapes, but he fixes everything in the end because he's special. WTF kind of message is that to be sending to people?
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#29 Dec 14 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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It's not about banning anything that can do damage, buses/cars/baseball bats have a primary function which isn't killing, whereas guns are only made for one purpose; to kill.
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#30 Dec 14 2012 at 6:12 PM Rating: Default
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paulsol wrote:
Merry Christmas! I wonder how many people get a firearm as a gift this year?
Baby Jesus would approve......


Well, at least that didn't take long.
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#31 Dec 14 2012 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Tatham wrote:
It's not about banning anything that can do damage, buses/cars/baseball bats have a primary function which isn't killing, whereas guns are only made for one purpose; to kill.


Not sure who you're quoting, but so what? Bows and arrows also exist only for that purpose. So do swords, many forms of axes, knives, clubs, etc. Anything in the history of man that has been built to be a weapon is built for that purpose (to kill). Is that really the distinction though? Should we ban all weapons? Or perhaps we should not make decisions about such things when emotions are high and reason is low. The purpose of guns hasn't changed since the writing of the 2nd amendment, so that argument really has no weight does it?
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#32 Dec 14 2012 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Not sure who you're quoting, but so what? Bows and arrows also exist only for that purpose. So do swords, many forms of axes, knives, clubs, etc. Anything in the history of man that has been built to be a weapon is built for that purpose (to kill). Is that really the distinction though? Should we ban all weapons? Or perhaps we should not make decisions about such things when emotions are high and reason is low. The purpose of guns hasn't changed since the writing of the 2nd amendment, so that argument really has no weight does it?

Oh, you're that right wing nutjob aren't you? Ok, I'd best make this simple then.
Sure; your constitution gives your citizens the "Right to Bear Arms", however what "Arms" means is different from what it meant back in 1783. When you have weapons like the sort used in so many shootings (ie: automatic) so readily available then even you need to admit that the amendment needs some revision.
I wouldn't outright ban firearms but the laws need revising, badly.

I suggest you take a look at Switzerland's gun laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
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#33 Dec 14 2012 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or perhaps we should not make decisions about such things when emotions are high and reason is low.

Yeah, we just need a nice lengthy period between these mass shootings for things to settle down.

Oh, wait... damn. That doesn't seem to exist these days. Oh well, just the cost of business for the 2nd Amendment.
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#34 Dec 14 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Default
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Tatham wrote:
Oh, you're that right wing nutjob aren't you? Ok, I'd best make this simple then.


Sadly, I suspect even when simplified, you'll get most of it wrong. Let's see, shall we?

Quote:
Sure; your constitution gives your citizens the "Right to keep and Bear Arms", however what "Arms" means is different from what it meant back in 1783.


Mistake number one.

Also, not really. And not relative to what other citizens can legally carry, which is kind of the point. Muskets were pretty cutting edge at the time and gave a huge advantage to the guy using them versus the guy not, yet no one argued that arms only meant swords and shields.

Quote:
When you have weapons like the sort used in so many shootings (ie: semi-automatic) so readily available then even you need to admit that the amendment needs some revision.


Mistake number two.

What revision though. If someone is able to propose a change to the 2nd amendment and then get it passed, then that's great. Will of the people and all that. But no one actually does what you propose. They talk about the need to change it, but instead of changing it (or even coming up with a propose change) just kinda want to ignore it, or pretend it says something different, or complain about it, and make snide remarks when people like me point that out.


Quote:
I wouldn't outright ban firearms but the laws need revising, badly.


Fine. Propose a change then. Tell me what you think the 2nd amendment should say, and what our gun laws should be. Then tell me how that will prevent crimes like this without unduly imposing on the rights of the citizens. I mean, since you acknowledge that you don't think firearms should be outright banned, then you need to tell me what limits you'd place that would still work legally and accomplish what you want it to accomplish. Just saying "there need to be a change" without being able to say what changes you would make is somewhat meaningless. It serves only to inflame the emotions of those who want "a change", and increase the likelihood of a really poor change being implemented based on those emotions..

Quote:
I suggest you take a look at Switzerland's gun laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland


I'm reasonably certain that those fighting for tighter gun control laws in the US want nothing remotely like the Swiss gun laws implemented. Meanwhile, I'm quite certain that the NRA would love for the US to require everyone to train as part of the militia and keep military firearms in their homes. It would teach them respect for the weapon, more law abiding citizens would have them and know how to use them, and it would remove the culture of fear of firearms that largely leads the push for restricting them.

Edited, Dec 14th 2012 6:05pm by gbaji
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#35 Dec 14 2012 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Any idiot who starts spouting off about 2nd ammendment bs is just that, an idiot. Banning guns would work about as well, probably even less so, than banning alcohol did. When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels? Of the last 100 or so incidents, how many were of this nature?

Go ahead, I'll wait while you figure it out.









Exactly.
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#36 Dec 14 2012 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Any idiot who starts spouting off about 2nd ammendment bs is just that, an idiot. Banning guns would work about as well, probably even less so, than banning alcohol did. When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels? Of the last 100 or so incidents, how many were of this nature?

Go ahead, I'll wait while you figure it out.









Exactly.


The whole "Strict gun laws only affect law abiding citizens" is also bs as you being a "law abiding citizen" today doesn't mean that you will be one when you come home early and catch your wife riding cowboy on your neighbor. Besides, it's not the registration of the gun, it's their existence. In order for such a strict law to be effective, you would have to remove all guns, which is practically impossible.

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#37 Dec 14 2012 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels?
James Eagan Holmes.
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#38 Dec 14 2012 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels?
James Eagan Holmes.


Wade Michael Page was later and also used legally purchased weapons.
#39 Dec 14 2012 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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Sci Fi decided not to show the new episode of Haven tonight, because it dealt with a High School reunion and had 'violence' take place in a High School...

Instead they are showing the old Eureka Christmas special.
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#40 Dec 14 2012 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not sure who you're quoting, but so what? Bows and arrows also exist only for that purpose. So do swords, many forms of axes, knives, clubs, etc. Anything in the history of man that has been built to be a weapon is built for that purpose (to kill). Is that really the distinction though? Should we ban all weapons?

Probably not. Should we allow anyone to buy shoulder fired missiles? Probably not. Where the line is drawn between those two points should be a matter of reasoned debate, not infantile rhetoric. The current justification for private ownership of handguns and combat rifles is essentially "people need them to protect themselves against criminals because its easy for criminals to get handguns and combat rifles". While in reality, of course, the weird fear fantasy that you're going to be attacked by someone and be saved by your handgun almost never happens. To be fair, it's also the case that statistically your kid is about 30000 times more likely to be killed because you're a sh*tty driver than they are to be shot by a crazy @#%^er.
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#41 Dec 14 2012 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
NSFW, Language

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#42 Dec 14 2012 at 10:34 PM Rating: Default
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Wish I could rate you up.. Would post on facebook, but definitely too soon for comedic relief.
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#43 Dec 14 2012 at 11:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can hardly stomach Facebook today. I feel like a right bitch, but this has hardly affected me at all. I think it's sad, and @#%^ed up, but the Facebook posts are really making me sick. One guy posted that he usually regrets never having kids, but today isn't one of those days, then proceeds to tell all the parents on his friends list to hug their kids. One chick posted that this makes her want to home school her kid when she's ready to start school. My mom told me today "I cried through my whole lunch break."

Those that have kids, I can understand it a little more, I guess. Especially young kids. But mostly I just want it to go away. And I hate to speak ill of the dead, but apparently this guy was 20 years old, lived with his mom, and had "mental issues." Do you know who's guns he used? His mothers. Why on earth would you have guns in the house if you have a mentally ill adult living with you?
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#44 Dec 15 2012 at 12:28 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
Why on earth would you have guns in the house if you have a mentally ill adult living with you?

The government won't know you're serious about stopping tyranny unless you have a gun readily accessible for your mentally ill son to grab and start freedom fighting against school children with. Thank god for the 2nd Amendment.
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#45 Dec 15 2012 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
Joph, sarcastically wrote:
Thank god for the 2nd Amendment.


Well, since this @#%^ wasn't a "well regulated militia" I don't see how that applies.
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#46 Dec 15 2012 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Any idiot who starts spouting off about 2nd ammendment bs is just that, an idiot. Banning guns would work about as well, probably even less so, than banning alcohol did. When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels? Of the last 100 or so incidents, how many were of this nature?

Go ahead, I'll wait while you figure it out.









Exactly.


Adam Lanza? This was a sarcastic post right?

Edited, Dec 15th 2012 3:03am by Deadgye
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#47 Dec 15 2012 at 2:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Joph, sarcastically wrote:
Thank god for the 2nd Amendment.
Well, since this @#%^ wasn't a "well regulated militia" I don't see how that applies.

Didn't you know? The holy, divine and infallible Founding Fathers meant "well regulated militia" to mean anyone who could hold a gun, ever. This mentally ill person needed ready access to guns for militia purposes.
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#48 Dec 15 2012 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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Of the 22 children stabbed in today's Chinese school massacre, while several ended up in critical care, none died.

I must mention that out of all the recent spate of school stabbing massacres in China, very often some children died. However the ratio of deaths from stabbings to deaths from gunshots is still lower overall.
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#49 Dec 15 2012 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Fine. Propose a change then. Tell me what you think the 2nd amendment should say, and what our gun laws should be. Then tell me how that will prevent crimes like this without unduly imposing on the rights of the citizens. I mean, since you acknowledge that you don't think firearms should be outright banned, then you need to tell me what limits you'd place that would still work legally and accomplish what you want it to accomplish. Just saying "there need to be a change" without being able to say what changes you would make is somewhat meaningless. It serves only to inflame the emotions of those who want "a change", and increase the likelihood of a really poor change being implemented based on those emotions..

I'd say civilians can only legally own 2 firearms. A 6-shot revolver and a rifle that only holds a single round. If you are a hunter, no need for more than 1 bullet. If you miss, chances are the animal would bolt anyway so what would having to reload hurt. Same with a revolver. 6 shots should easily be enough to protect yourself from whatever threat. By limiting the number of shots before reloading, I would think it would make it easier for people caught in that situation to be able to flee with a much higher chance of survival.
#50 Dec 15 2012 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
When was the last time one of these shooters used his own gun purchased through legal channels?


In almost every case, actually.

Guns legal or not


Saying that guns used in most mass shootings were obtained illegally is one of those commonly purported fallacies, like that Prohibition didn't reduce the use of alcohol (it did), or that dressing modestly reduces your risk of rape (it doesn't).

Edit: Graphic is from this post and created by Mother Jones.

Edited, Dec 15th 2012 8:37am by LockeColeMA
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#51 Dec 15 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Default
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Belkira wrote:
I can hardly stomach Facebook today. I feel like a right bitch, but this has hardly affected me at all. I think it's sad, and @#%^ed up, but the Facebook posts are really making me sick. One guy posted that he usually regrets never having kids, but today isn't one of those days, then proceeds to tell all the parents on his friends list to hug their kids. One chick posted that this makes her want to home school her kid when she's ready to start school. My mom told me today "I cried through my whole lunch break."


Don't feel bad, someone has to get coal for Christmas! I joke I joke.

People react differently. I first heard two students and a principal. I was bothered, but kind of shrugged it off. I missed all of the updates and was wondering why every news station was covering it. Thought they were overacting a bit. Then I saw the new total and became angry. I think that I'm getting softer and I don't like it.

Belkira wrote:
Do you know who's guns he used? His mothers. Why on earth would you have guns in the house if you have a mentally ill adult living with you?


I'm not buying the whole "mental illness". "Mental illness" could be anything. It could be that he was suffering from bulimia. I'm not going to degrade whatever his illness was , but at the same time, I'm not going to pardon his actions simply based on a broad statement of a "mental disorder". I heard that it was planned and I'm guessing that his mental illness did not prevent him from knowing good from bad in this scenario.
____________________________
Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
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