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#27 Nov 18 2012 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Monsieur Driftwood wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
The first time, that we (the British) tried to get the two sides to come to some sort of agreement was just before the second world war, actually.

Something called the Peel Commission. Probably wasn't the first time, actually. Still.



Huh, I didn't know about that. Now I have something to learn about whilst relaxing.


I freely admit my ignorance on the history of the Israel/Palestine dispute and need to learn more about it. I've always found the whole situation very depressing since there has been little to no progress since I was born.
#28 Nov 18 2012 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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"You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense."
Noam Chomsky
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#29 Nov 18 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Nobby wrote:
"You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense."
Noam Chomsky


"The best defense is a strong offense."

Every military strategist in the past 3000 years.
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#30 Nov 18 2012 at 7:43 PM Rating: Default
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I have no sympathy for any injured reporter.. They're just chilling on top of buildings, with no gear jumping at explosions... I never quite understood that.. It's not that serious.
#31 Nov 18 2012 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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I have no sympathy for any injured reporter.. They're just chilling on top of buildings, with no gear jumping at explosions... I never quite understood that.. It's not that serious.


I'd say its more serious than a hurricane. Plus, ya know, its easier to cover a story from where its happening as opposed to...anywhere else?
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#32 Nov 18 2012 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Nobby wrote:
"You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense."
Noam Chomsky


"The best defense is a strong offense."

Every military strategist in the past 3000 years.


Crush your enemy totally.
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#33 Nov 19 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
I'd say its more serious than a hurricane.
With all the strength of a raging fire.
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#34 Nov 19 2012 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I'd say its more serious than a hurricane.
With all the strength of a raging fire.


Oh you can go to **** for putting that song back in my head. Smiley: mad
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#35 Nov 19 2012 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I'd say its more serious than a hurricane.
With all the strength of a raging fire.


Oh you can go to **** for putting that song back in my head. Smiley: mad

Smiley: laugh
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#36 Nov 19 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Israel falls for the bait hard. All this does is strengthens Iran's position for Arab Solidarity. Good ol Israel 2 steps forward 3 steps back.
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#37 Nov 19 2012 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I'd say its more serious than a hurricane.
With all the strength of a raging fire.


Oh you can go to **** for putting that song back in my head. Smiley: mad


But it's a great song.
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#38 Nov 19 2012 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Like others I feel pretty unqualified to support either side in this long-standing conflict. None-the-less, I thought this article was interesting in that it attempts to highlight five reasons why things are 'different' this time around.

You don't need to understand two-thousand years of drama for this article to make sense - only the last couple decades.

Quote:
1. Egypt's Changing Role: With the Muslim Brotherhood now running Egypt, the country's prime minister traveled to Gaza after the shooting started and visited the main Gaza City hospital to show solidarity with the Palestinians.

This reflects the close and long-standing ties between the Brotherhood and Hamas, the radical Islamist group that controls Gaza. In fact, Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

When Hosni Mubarak was the president of Egypt, he was one of the few figures acceptable as a mediator to both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Mubarak sent aides shuttling back and forth to Israel and to Gaza to broker cease-fires.

With Mubarak gone, the burden is still falling on Egypt by default. Israel sent an envoy there for truce talks. However, Hamas is sure to feel far more comfortable dealing with an Egyptian government headed by the Muslim Brotherhood than it ever did with Mubarak, a staunch opponent of Islamist groups. The Israelis, in turn, are likely to be far less trusting of Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi.

2. Arab Leaders Go To Gaza: Hamas has been largely isolated since coming to power in Gaza in 2006. Its best friends have been Iran, Syria and Hezbollah in Lebanon, all pariahs in the West and the international community to varying degrees. Visits by foreign dignitaries to Gaza were exceedingly rare. Gazans have felt cut off from the world and refer to their territory as an "open-air prison."

But virtually overnight, Gaza has gone from a diplomatic black hole to diplomatic crossroads.

The emir of Qatar visited shortly before the fighting began, making him the most prominent leader to set foot in Gaza since Hamas took over. Tunisia's foreign minister, Rafik Abdesslem, visited on Saturday and said, "Israel should understand that many things have changed and that lots of water has run in the Arab river," according to Reuters.

An Arab league delegation is planning to arrive Tuesday. U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is in Cairo for talks.

Gazans clearly feel that they have more international support than in the past. Israel, which is already concerned about the rise of Islamists in many Arab states, is likely to feel even less secure about its diplomatic standing.

3. Hamas' Rockets, Israel's Iron Dome: Previous bloodlettings in Gaza took place in a very confined space. Israel fenced off Gaza years ago to prevent Palestinian militants from getting out, and Palestinian homemade rockets could only travel a few miles into southern Israel.

Now Palestinian rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem — Israel's two largest and most important cities — which are in the center the country. Symbolically and psychologically, Hamas poses a more significant threat with these more powerful weapons, which came from Iran, according to the Israeli military.

To counteract the fire from Gaza, Israel has built the Iron Dome missile interceptor system. Incoming Palestinian rockets are regularly shot down while still in flight. Israel has been extremely pleased with the performance of the system, built with the help of U.S. money and technology.

"This is certainly a game changer," Josh Hartman, a spokesman for Israel's Defense Ministry, told NPR's Morning Edition. "The Iron Dome is a very sophisticated radar system [that] determines where the rockets are going to land; and if the rockets are going to land in built-up urban populated areas, we choose to intercept these rockets with over 90 percent success rate."

However, as Sheera Frenkel reported from Israel for Morning Edition, the success of Iron Dome may be making Israelis a bit too casual about incoming rockets. When air raid sirens go off, some Israelis no longer race to take cover. Instead, they look to the sky in hopes of seeing the Iron Dome take out an incoming rocket.

4. The Absence Of A Peace Process: Peace negotiations have been virtually nonexistent in recent years. As a result, when clashes erupt, the diplomatic goals have been modest, seeking only to halt the immediate fighting.

At present, few entertain the notion of a full-fledged Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement despite an almost universal belief this is what's needed to prevent the recurring clashes.

"When fighting flares over Gaza, world leaders and pundits scamper to the same old and feeble solution: a ceasefire. But that 'magic' formula has never worked well and won't succeed now, at least for long," Leslie Gelb, of the Council of Foreign Relations, writes at The Daily Beast.

5. U.S. Skittishness In The Middle East: U.S. foreign policy has been dominated by crises in the Middle East for more than a decade, and there's no apparent desire to wade into another one.

U.S. troops are gone from Iraq, but President Obama is still dealing with the military drawdown in Afghanistan, the uproar over the attack on the U.S. mission in Libya, and the tensions surrounding the Iranian nuclear program.

The U.S. has been strongly supportive of Israel and blamed the Hamas rocket attacks for the latest escalation. But like Israel, the U.S. considers Hamas a terrorist group and does not deal with it. Therefore, an end to the fighting seems likely to be worked out primarily, if not entirely, among the parties in the Middle East.
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#39 Nov 20 2012 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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6. When you back a dog into a corner it will try and bite you.

Israel has been containing the people of Palestine in the largest open air prison the world has ever seen. They have consistently denied them the right to assemble their own nation, and have spent countless years urging the UN to deny them the right of being considered a nation. They have bulldozed homes to provide more land for their expanding population and industry, they have abducted people based on suspicion, and they have done this for over 40 years.

The attack on Syria (a "retaliation") was the trigger for the dog to bite back.

If we in the west truly want peace in the middle east, we must confront Israels disturbing human rights history, and we must confront the Arab League on its collective hate for Israel. Simply backing one and not the other, scolding one and not the other is not the answer, it is hypocritical.

It is embarrassing to say the least. Especially when these people (on both sides) are fighting for their ways of life, and to have the freedom to call their homes, home. Both sides are equally responsible, and it is time we called a spade a spade, otherwise our principles and value of freedom mean nothing.

The great hypocrisy of our time is rearing its ugly head.
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#40 Nov 20 2012 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Especially when these people (on both sides) are fighting for their ways of life, and to have the freedom to call their homes, home. Both sides are equally responsible, and it is time we called a spade a spade, otherwise our principles and value of freedom mean nothing.


I keep hoping that the warmongers on both sides will just kill each other off already. Sadly it doesn't seem to be happening as fast as hoped. Smiley: frown
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#41 Nov 20 2012 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Especially when these people (on both sides) are fighting for their ways of life, and to have the freedom to call their homes, home. Both sides are equally responsible, and it is time we called a spade a spade, otherwise our principles and value of freedom mean nothing.


I keep hoping that the warmongers on both sides will just kill each other off already. Sadly it doesn't seem to be happening as fast as hoped. Smiley: frown
The warmongers don't actually do any of the fighting though. That would just be silly.
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#42 Nov 20 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Default
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
I have no sympathy for any injured reporter.. They're just chilling on top of buildings, with no gear jumping at explosions... I never quite understood that.. It's not that serious.


I'd say its more serious than a hurricane. Plus, ya know, its easier to cover a story from where its happening as opposed to...anywhere else?


1. Does the world need to see live action violence in order for the government to act?

2. Even if you needed film, there's no reason not to have any gear on.

3. Do you need to be standing on top of a building to get your film?
#43 Nov 20 2012 at 11:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
1. Does the world need to see live action violence in order for the government to act?


Usually. It helps more if the violence is happening to a white person, preferably female.
Quote:
2. Even if you needed film, there's no reason not to have any gear on.

You're right, they should have worn a helmet.
Quote:
3. Do you need to be standing on top of a building to get your film?

Depends on lighting.

Dude, you're arguing against journalists covering a story which is, ya know, what journalism is. Well, what its supposed to be, anyways.
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#44 Nov 21 2012 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
The warmongers don't actually do any of the fighting though.
A lot of patriots are the same way.
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#45Almalieque, Posted: Nov 21 2012 at 12:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Dude, I'm not fighting against journalism, but stupidity. If your enemy is firing missiles into your country, don't you think large buildings will more than likely be, ya know, targets? I hate to burst your bubble, but we have means to where a person doesn't physically have to be in the fire fight to know what's going on...
#46 Nov 21 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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ya its called the media reporting on the news.
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#47 Nov 21 2012 at 1:03 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
ya its called the media reporting on the news.

Smiley: lol
#48 Nov 21 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Anderson Cooper's immaculately groomed hair singed by a nearby explosion
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#49 Nov 21 2012 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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I heard about this but didn't watch the video until now. Was neat that you could see the flash of the explosion first. Anderson couldn't see where it had gone off, but the sound was about 1.5 seconds delayed, which means that it was about 1600 feet, or 3 city blocks away.

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#50 Nov 21 2012 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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I was just so watching the news when I saw that...That was the clip that I was referencing to. Just plain silly.
#51 Nov 21 2012 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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