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R.I.P. Due ProcessFollow

#1 Oct 08 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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The Bow is Bent
http://images.politico.com/global/2012/10/indefdetnappealscourtstay.pdf

The Arrow Flies
http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ndaaca2tempord.pdf

No, it Soars
http://www.scribd.com/doc/105774648/NDAA-Ruling

For those of you who don't like reading and/or links; the NDAA which was ruled unconstitutional not long ago is being let off it's leash. ..The judges order had been appealed by the Obama administration and another judge approved the appeal to indefinitely suspend the prior ruling. I'm betting on who appointed that judge too..

..1 degree at a time

interesting times ahead.






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#2 Oct 08 2012 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I liked this part:

Quote:
In its May 25, 2012, motion for reconsideration, the Government put forth the qualified position that plaintiffs’particular activities, as described at the hearing, if described accurately, if they were independent, and without more, would not subject plaintiffs to military detention under § 1021. The Government did not--and does not--generally agree or anywhere argue that activities protected by the First Amendment could not subject an individual to indefinite military detention under§ 1021(b)(2). The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides for greater protection: it prohibits Congress from passing any law abridging speech and associational rights. To the extent that § 1021(b)(2) purports to encompass protected First Amendment activities, it is unconstitutionally overbroad.


But then in the latest decision:

Quote:
First, in its memorandum of law in support of its
motion, the government clarifies unequivocally that, "based on
their stated activities," plaintiffs, "journalists and
activists[,] . . . are in no danger whatsoever of ever being
captured and detained by the U.S. military."


OH RIGHT. Because the government SAYS SO, it's totally cool. Smiley: thumbsup

Even more interesting...

Quote:
Third, the language of the district court's injunction appears to go beyond
NDAA § 1021 itself and to limit the government's authority under
the Authorization for Use of Military Force, Pub L. 107-40, 115
Stat. 224 (Sept. 18, 2011).


Ahh, so the other stuff is just fluff. The real gotcha here is that the original injunction was too broad. I hope those ******* get it right on the appeal...
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#3 Oct 08 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm betting on who appointed that judge too..

It was an appeals court so it was a panel of judges:

Denny Chin - Clinton
Raymond Lohier - Obama
Christopher Droney - Originally appointed as a federal judge by Clinton, appointed for Appeals judge by Obama

Edited, Oct 8th 2012 9:35am by Jophiel
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#4 Oct 08 2012 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Silly liberal judges, you're supposed to rubber stamp everything.
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#5 Oct 08 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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No standing. The only surprise is the stay ever being granted. Let me know when there's an actual case and I'll be concerned.
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#6 Oct 08 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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All I can say is that Judge Forrest's definition of "strikingly different" in the NY district court ruling is, well, "strikingly different" than most people's. I am also puzzled at the standing question. Regardless of what you think of the relatively minor addition of the phase "laws of war" in the NDAA, the section in question clearly states it only applies to "covered persons", which is explicitly defined as:

Quote:
(b) COVERED PERSONS. -- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.


Unless the plaintiffs are claiming that they fall into that category, I'm not sure how they can claim standing to sue over the change in the law that only applies to people in that category.

Even beyond that, the ruling itself is a mess of unconnected bits. Haven't read the whole thing, but I haven't been able to find a coherent reason behind the ruling at all. I guess you could point to it as a broad question about government power with regard to military action, national defense, etc. But that's not new. The ruling seems to rest on the somewhat absurd idea that our government can't take any national defense action unless there's an explicitly written law that has a complete list of every action it may take and every situation under which it may take it. The unfortunate reality is that there must be some degree of vagueness in our national defense rules, else it ceases to be effective against any situation which we have not predicted and written an authorization for. And while such vagueness absolutely has resulted in abuses in the past (and certainly will in the future), it's a necessary evil. Keep an eye on it, call foul when abuses happen, but don't try to over regulate the whole thing IMO.

Edited, Oct 9th 2012 2:17pm by gbaji
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#7 Oct 08 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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That's right, you neocons, down with regulations!


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#8 Oct 09 2012 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Does not history, evidence, and logic dictate that rulers will do everything that they can at all times to encroach upon freedoms?
Government should never ever ever be trusted.. and must constantly be scrutinized for this very reason.. but apparently people have forgotten what area to scrutinize because they have been made to waste time arguing over which side of the coin is better.. It's the same story of setting one half of the populace to squabble with the other while the real crimes being perpetrated are never really realized.

How can anyone think that the government's natural and most likely course of action is to suppress people to the Nth degree... It is a simple fact like gravity pushes mass down as far as it can... like water trickles downhill... people will try to control each other and a natural sociological pyramid-scheme erupts in the form of an oligarchy that we see revealing itself today.
Oligarchy of what? Of the richest people on the planet.. and this day and age is different than any other because we are now on a global scale.. so this isn't simply a matter of history repeating itself... this is a matter of history just being comprised of macroscopic precursors to what is coming.
We cannot even blame federal government... there is no federal government.. it is the Big Banker government and it's here to stay no matter who you vote for.. It is all written and it is all orchestrated... Crony politics... Revolving doors... Federal FOREIGN Reserve Bank leeching us dry and the quality of everything drops to dust.. but hey.. at least the whole country's highway system is getting a makeover... even as the people are being bled and bred into docile drugged drones.. Happy happy times!
Rest assured our children will live in even more interesting times than we are.

good luck, folks!

Edited, Oct 9th 2012 12:23pm by Kelvyquayo
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#9 Oct 09 2012 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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even as the people are being bled and bred into docile drugged drones

On the plus side, political alliteration is at all time highs.
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#10 Oct 09 2012 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
even as the people are being bled and bred into docile drugged drones

On the plus side, political alliteration is at all time highs.


Stream of consciousness monologuing is up this quarter, too.
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#11 Oct 09 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Does not history, evidence, and logic dictate that rulers will do everything that they can at all times to encroach upon freedoms?


Wow, does being born again mean you have to burn Strunk and White?

"*Do* history, evidence, <yay oxford comma> and logic *not*...."
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#12 Oct 09 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Oligarchy of what? Of the richest people on the planet.. and this day and age is different than any other because we are now on a global scale.. so this isn't simply a matter of history repeating itself... this is a matter of history just being comprised of macroscopic precursors to what is coming.
We cannot even blame federal government... there is no federal government.. it is the Big Banker government and it's here to stay no matter who you vote for.. It is all written and it is all orchestrated... Crony politics... Revolving doors... Federal FOREIGN Reserve Bank leeching us dry and the quality of everything drops to dust.. but hey.. at least the whole country's highway system is getting a makeover... even as the people are being bled and bred into docile drugged drones.. Happy happy times!


*Checks watch*. We should be getting to "The Jews run everything" in about 9 minutes.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#13 Oct 09 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
even as the people are being bled and bred into docile drugged drones

On the plus side, political alliteration is at all time highs.


Stream of consciousness monologuing is up this quarter, too.


Well okay sure, when in Rome or something...

Kelvyquayo wrote:
Revolving doors...


Seriously, why do people fail so hard at these? I know it's a pain to put down your smart phone for 10 seconds to navigate the doorway, but some of us would prefer not to be trapped waiting for you to post your critique of your sister-in-laws choice of lunch. You know, most normal people would realize it's difficult to move the door with both hands on your iphone. I guess your didn't get the word though, rumor has it there's not an app for that yet so I'm not surprised. But hey whatever, take your time, we're obviously not going anywhere. Smiley: rolleyes

Smiley: disappointed


Edited, Oct 9th 2012 10:23am by someproteinguy
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#14 Oct 09 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Revolving doors...
Seriously, why do people fail so hard at these? I know it's a pain to put down your smart phone for 10 seconds to navigate the doorway, but some of us would prefer not to be trapped waiting for you to post your critique of your sister-in-laws choice of lunch.
Push your door. They'll get the hint.
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#15 Oct 09 2012 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Revolving doors...
Seriously, why do people fail so hard at these? I know it's a pain to put down your smart phone for 10 seconds to navigate the doorway, but some of us would prefer not to be trapped waiting for you to post your critique of your sister-in-laws choice of lunch.
Push your door. They'll get the hint.

You'd think so, but results seem to be mixed. End up with "Oh, sorry" and then the behavior repeats. Maybe if I wasn't so nice I'd push harder, but it's so hard to build up momentum with those things.Smiley: frown
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#16 Oct 09 2012 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Revolving doors...
Seriously, why do people fail so hard at these? I know it's a pain to put down your smart phone for 10 seconds to navigate the doorway, but some of us would prefer not to be trapped waiting for you to post your critique of your sister-in-laws choice of lunch.
Push your door. They'll get the hint.

You'd think so, but results seem to be mixed. End up with "Oh, sorry" and then the behavior repeats. Maybe if I wasn't so nice I'd push harder, but it's so hard to build up momentum with those things.Smiley: frown
Just keep pushing and push harder when they're trying to get out. Maybe, with some luck, you'll get one of them caught between the door and the entrance and smash their face in.
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#17 Oct 10 2012 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Revolving doors clearly were not designed with the modern communicator in mind. They should have a foot mechanism that moves them.

As a kid I only encountered revolving doors when we'd make our annual trek to downtown Minneapolis at Christmas time. I loved them.

Kelvy - it was just an acorn.
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#18 Oct 10 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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You can always place your foot against the back and let them smash themselves when they finally start moving again.
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#19 Oct 11 2012 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Wow, does being born again mean you have to burn Strunk and White?

"*Do* history, evidence, <yay oxford comma> and logic *not*...."


Aw man. That was my edit. I added history and evidence to the line and forgot to make the appropriate modifier.. :(
I hope you get all of the vomit off of your screen. I'll pay for it if you want! :)

Smasharoo wrote:

Oligarchy of what? Of the richest people on the planet.. and this day and age is different than any other because we are now on a global scale.. so this isn't simply a matter of history repeating itself... this is a matter of history just being comprised of macroscopic precursors to what is coming.
We cannot even blame federal government... there is no federal government.. it is the Big Banker government and it's here to stay no matter who you vote for.. It is all written and it is all orchestrated... Crony politics... Revolving doors... Federal FOREIGN Reserve Bank leeching us dry and the quality of everything drops to dust.. but hey.. at least the whole country's highway system is getting a makeover... even as the people are being bled and bred into docile drugged drones.. Happy happy times!


*Checks watch*. We should be getting to "The Jews run everything" in about 9 minutes.


No; the Bankers not the Jews..
Let's break it down:
Oligarchy is maybe a bit light. How about global totalitarian police state?
CHECK http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/

Richest people on planet getting together every few years to decide the fate of the plebs and the proles?
CHECK http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php

Precursors to a larger tribulation?
CHECK http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1003-the-history-of-dhs-ammunition-purchases
and
CHECK http://www.aclu.org/free-speech-technology-and-liberty-womens-rights/newborn-dna-banking
and
CHECK http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/world/middleeast/syria.html?_r=0
ET CETERA ET AL

No Federal government?
There's a big CHECK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS1dAodhUu0

Big banker government?

BOYAH! https://www2.optimalblue.com/qe-unlimited/

Revolving doors?

Well ok not in Boston apparently.. according to SOME people of a cheesier persuasion <.<

uhh Foreign Federal Reserve?
well - http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-qe2-failed-the-money-all-went-offshore/
and - http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9E2A4EA8-6E73-4BE2-A753-62060DCBB3C3
and - http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fed-releases-details-secret-855-billion-single-tranche-omo-bailout-program-just-another-fore

People being bred into drones?
Check - http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5ibDGZCWWRp7xcFf8MWRm1bG6Uz7g?docId=N0023921349285680612A
and Check - http://perezitos.com/category/honey-boo-boo/


Just because you're paranoid..

Edited, Oct 11th 2012 6:16pm by Kelvyquayo
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#20 Oct 11 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Revolving doors clearly were not designed with the modern communicator in mind. They should have a foot mechanism that moves them.

As a kid I only encountered revolving doors when we'd make our annual trek to downtown Minneapolis at Christmas time. I loved them.

Why hasn't our very own Revolving Door Inspector weighed in on this discussion?
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#21 Oct 11 2012 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
No; the Bankers not the Jews..


I don't think I understand.
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#22 Oct 12 2012 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
People being bred into drones?
You're a fine example of that.
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#23 Oct 12 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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We need more drones to launch at Pakistan and, if we have a way to convert humans into flying death machines, I say we go for it.
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#24 Oct 12 2012 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Strap a few pounds of C4 and nails ala Jihad on some lifers and get some giant catapults.
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#25 Oct 12 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Loved it. Smiley: inlove

Smart people don't feed their kids as much fast food, and their kids are smart too. So if we want to make dumb kids smart we should obviously feed them less fast food...

Science! Smiley: schooled
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#26 Oct 15 2012 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:


Loved it. Smiley: inlove

Smart people don't feed their kids as much fast food, and their kids are smart too. So if we want to make dumb kids smart we should obviously feed them less fast food...

Science! Smiley: schooled


It's good enough for the First Lady, so it ought to be good enough for us!
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#27 Oct 15 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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One more reason I'm glad I'm not a politician, not a lot of good options there...

1) Acknowledge the shortcoming then lie to your constituents; giving them the false hope that a few ill-thought-out and under-funded programs will make their kids smart.

2) Dismiss the shortcoming and embrace their dumb ideas and plans; praying that you don't end up saying something really stupid like Mr. Akin did.

3) Tell them the cold honest truth that they're dumb as rocks, and there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it; then get somewhere around zero votes in November.

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#28 Oct 15 2012 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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It would be nice if honesty was a valid campaign platform.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#29 Oct 16 2012 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Who wants honesty?
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#30 Oct 16 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
It would be nice if honesty was a valid campaign platform.

It would be ripe with lies and half-truths.
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#31 Oct 16 2012 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Who wants honesty?


There's entertainment potential there.
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#32 Oct 18 2012 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Who wants honesty?


There's entertainment potential there.


If you spin it correctly there's some voter potential in there too. Run with the intent of showing people reality instead of trying to win. Give honest responses; Don't pretend to have fake solutions and simply say what parts you've potentially worked out, what's left, and what directions you're looking at; Admit to your mistakes and small imperfections that make you human; etc. Then you can run a counter campaign in parallel about how all the other candidates are just pretending to have everything figured out when in actuality they're just telling you what you want to hear; how they hide their own opinions and replace them with whatever is most likely to get more votes.

If you end up getting some results then you could potentially change the crappy masquerade that we call a political campaign. If you don't, then eh at least it would be interesting. I am a naive child when it comes to politics. Let me have my blissful hopes.

Also, automatic revolving doors should be connected with the floor so that the floor moves automatically too.

Edited, Oct 18th 2012 3:12am by Deadgye
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#33 Oct 18 2012 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Didn't this guy fall in love with a dude, owned by a corporation, that owns a city of gold...and their own borders?

Come on man quit living in a dream world. Bankers mean ****....its the 13 families and the Illuminati you need to watch out for...then again they aren't even top of the food chain, they are just slaves for the evil reptilian shape changers who really rule us all.
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#34 Oct 18 2012 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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the evil reptilian shape changers who really rule us all.
The Skrulls?
#35 Oct 18 2012 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I believe he stole the IP

but this http://www.davidicke.com/articles/reptilian-agenda-mainmenu-43
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#36 Oct 18 2012 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Didn't this guy fall in love with a dude, owned by a corporation, that owns a city of gold...and their own borders?

Come on man quit living in a dream world. Bankers mean sh*t....its the 13 families and the Illuminati you need to watch out for...then again they aren't even top of the food chain, they are just slaves for the evil reptilian shape changers who really rule us all.

The Skrulls?
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#37 Oct 18 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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**** reptilian postshifting aliens.
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#38 Oct 18 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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I hated David Icke even when I was a treehugging, incenseburning, dreamtiming, druidic pagan, but I still do not discount the existence of aliens.. though.. but it's all irrelevant. Whatever the truth; evil is evil no matter what it looks like or what planet its from.
I don't think many would dare argue here that the ruling class hasn't had (or sought to have) their ropes around the neck of the commoner all throughout history. It should be a no-brainer am I wrong? Was there some point in history when everyone just got along together?

The point is: the major difference between then and Right Now is that the capacity exists for a takeover of the entire world governing system.. starting with the financial systems and working its way down to the very homes that you own.. The government is the same as the private banks.. not just the US Gov but elsewhere.. it's not contained within borders. Whether dollar, or yen, or rupee, or euro...As they collapse the public economy and more people are forced to give back to the bank.. the gov can swoop in and gobble it all up. This is nothing new..
The new world currency will be the welfare check.. so they can rent your house back to you and sell you the food that they produce...
The new Mott and Bailey System.
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#39 Oct 18 2012 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Glad in my country we control 100%* of our central bank then otherwise id have to get out the tinfoil. Sucks to you America and Britain.


(unless the queen decides she wants to get into politics again, which is unlikely to happen, there is a good chance we would just laugh at her.)

Edited, Oct 19th 2012 12:33am by rdmcandie
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#40 Oct 19 2012 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
evil is evil no matter what it looks like or what planet its from.
Evil is subjective.
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#41 Oct 19 2012 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
evil is evil no matter what it looks like or what planet its from.
Evil is subjective.




"Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes"
- Satan
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#42 Oct 19 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
evil is evil no matter what it looks like or what planet its from.
Evil is subjective.




"Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes"
- Satan


I prefer Al Pacino's speech.

NSFW NSFW
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#43 Oct 21 2012 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
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Evil is subjective.

That's great. Everybody do whatever they want to anybody for any reason as long as they can justify it in their own mind. Makes perfect sense!

tell me, Yoda: Is Truth also subjective?
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#44 Oct 21 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Quote:
Evil is subjective.

That's great. Everybody do whatever they want to anybody for any reason as long as they can justify it in their own mind. Makes perfect sense!

tell me, Yoda: Is Truth also subjective?


Um ya.
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#45 Oct 21 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Quote:
Evil is subjective.

That's great. Everybody do whatever they want to anybody for any reason as long as they can justify it in their own mind. Makes perfect sense!


Ugh, I was trying to avoid wading into this.

Just because something is subjective doesn't mean that it's invalid. Our agreed-upon social construct of right and wrong helps society run, even though it's largely subjective. Surely you can see that.
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#46 Oct 21 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I was trying to avoid wading into this.

I'm trying to figure out if I was too.. I think I actually was because I've already made my views known.. although most arguments of this caliber can't last long because they inevitably begin to involve faith in one way or another.. Either way; I certainly can't shut up.. even when being provoked by such a blatant troll. Hornet's nests love a chance to buzz do they not?
Quote:

Just because something is subjective doesn't mean that it's invalid.

Just because you have to concentrate to look at something objectively doesn't mean that there isn't any true objective viewpoint about something. Are actual things capable of being objective or subjective anyway? No, of course not.. it is entirely based on 2 things: 1) How we look at them and 2) How they actually are.
You would say that there is no difference in these things; No? Of course that is the viewpoint that has no basis in reality. There is a clear distinction.. otherwise babies would be gods wouldn't they and people on acid would certainly be able to fly.. There is clearly a difference between our perception and the reality. In talking about something that you choose to label as purely abstract (subjective) such as the concept of "Evil", naturally there are so many views and commentaries and philosophies on it that indeed it is hard to find any true objectivity.. in fact maybe it doesn't exist from any human standpoint... I don't want to start preaching about what I think that you should think that Evil is.. I do not think that it is an "Action" per se.

Plato recognized that everything that we are experiencing is a shoddy third-rate version of True reality. True reality as relative to what? Relative to Perfection.
Ergo in our existence we are in a state of imperfection.. So imperfect that we can barely see or deal with the imperfection.
We always strive for it.. we always try to leap over the horizon..only ever to fall or stall.. this is simply the human condition.
What I am saying is that this Lack of Perfection is the actual Evil and it is only Relative to Perfection.. Perfection, as was said, being Perfect Truth... the perfect truth that we are unable to process..
To go any further would involve a Sentient Creator Force... because we didn't create ourselves and we are sentient.. but I'll leave it at that.
Quote:

Our agreed-upon social construct of right and wrong helps society run, even though it's largely subjective.


Indeed and agreed upon based on what we know deep down is that universal idea of Good and Evil. It sounds crazy until you actually consider it. I know what you are saying and obviously different cultures have different ideas... this is usually sites as proof of a "relative good and evil" but it is actually proof of nothing more of the survival of the fittest.. otherwise you would have to claim that it is the norm for the "Correct and Just" to be the ones to decide on the laws and rules of a society. That never really happens.. maybe to a lesser degree with very small communities.. but that never lasts either. It seems safe to say: No, people still haven't figured it out.. even by now.. and we probably never will.
You would then say "well then there is nothing to figure our because it subjective"... but if that were true.. at some point people would have had to agree on it.. If there is a universal concept that all humans are going through.. such as trying to live together in peace.. and everyone thought that they had their idea of it and shared it and people still have never agreed on it.. Then maybe the reason is that it's not simply subjective.. That there is a clear thing that we LACK as a people.. and it is that thing that we LACK is what cannot be agreed upon.. That THING being Perfection.

I am not really talking about helping society run... society runs like we make it run.. It is not a machine that can be programmed to go in a certain way and then it does its thing.. Society shadows what it's people are actively doing.. including collectively deciding what is Right and what is Wrong... This may work for individual families and communities.. but it can never work for Humanity... not without a Miracle.

Quote:
Surely you can see that.

Surely you can see that the ONLY logical direction for Humanity is total enslavement, slaughter, suffering, and destruction, right?
Am I sounding all doomy and gloomy? Answer these questions: Is history full of people caring and sharing with one another? Does the state of The Earth today consist of Nations that have learned from their past mistakes and have overcome adversity?
Your mistake is that you are awaiting this Utopian Global Village to happen some day... Am I right or wrong? Am being judgmental in assuming that you think that one day that people will learn to get along and we'll have global peace like in Star Trek or something?
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#47 Oct 21 2012 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't respond if you're going to try to argue with stream-of-consciousness writing. That was an incoherent mess.
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#48 Oct 22 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
That was an incoherent mess.
He basically said that he doesn't want to think for himself.
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#49 Oct 22 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I can't respond if you're going to try to argue with stream-of-consciousness writing. That was an incoherent mess.

Fair enough and I appreciate the honesty.
I emboldened and underlined the main "talking points" this time if you'd like:

You have stated
Quote:
Just because something is subjective doesn't mean that it's invalid.

I say that this statement alone makes no clear sense. Invalid compared to what? What is doing the "validation" here?
So let's put it in context with:
Quote:
Our agreed-upon social construct of right and wrong helps society run, even though it's largely subjective.


The idea of "society" has been so totally and hopelessly romanticized that people forget how violent and volatile societies actually are. It is nice to daydream about creating the perfect society but we are all so brainwashed by the propaganda that is fed to us in every form of sensory input that we can imagine that no one knows what that even means. While we are daydreaming about Utopia civilization continues to crumble.. This global economic depression isn't some accident that's going to be fixed by politicians. It was caused by them and nothing has changed and nothing will as they happily gobble up all of the assets that the public can no longer afford..If I am wrong than more is the better; but this stuff is nothing new. It has been happening all throughout history.. we are just about to see a global version of it.

If one does not believe that there is any real purpose for anything at all then all of these things are superfluous. If one believes that all of existence is an accident then these things really are wisps of absurdity. This is "big picture" stuff. it's easier to stay plugged into the Matrix. If when we die we stay dead then let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die.. Then what is the sense in even arguing about anything except to serve our own vanity?

My point is that people are essentially lost because they have convinced themselves that Truth is subjective and there is a direction that we are heading as people on this earth that is exactly the accumulative result of all an entire history of relative truths. Relative truth is well known to be BS.. and yet people constantly seek ways around that fact.. the real snake eating the tail.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2012 6:27pm by Kelvyquayo
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