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#1 Sep 27 2012 at 4:42 AM Rating: Excellent
Some of you may have heard or read about the Hubble Extreme Deep Field. For those of you haven't, or have but don't know what it is, it's basically this picture:

Screenshot

Here's a link to a bigger version.

You might be thinking, what's the big deal? Well, the big deal is that scientists took a small chunk of "empty sky", left the shutter open on hubble for about 23 days, & the above picture is what came back. Just about everything in it is a galaxy (over 5500 of them!), with hundreds of millions of stars, from about 13 billion years ago (or, about 500K years after the big bang). How big was that chunk of"empty sky"?

Screenshot
.

That big.

Kinda makes you think about our place in the grand scheme of things, doesn't it? Also, it makes me really excited about the James Webb telescope. That one might be able to go as far back as the big bang...

For more fun with scale, check this out over at newgrounds. It's fun & you might learn something.
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#2 Sep 27 2012 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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#3 Sep 27 2012 at 6:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
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#4 Sep 27 2012 at 6:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Carl Sagan wrote:
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.


I must have read that passage a hundred times already and I still smile every time I read it.
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#5 Sep 27 2012 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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#6 Sep 27 2012 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, if we're toasting Carl Sagan, always worth watching/listening again....
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#7 Sep 27 2012 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Carl Sagan wrote:
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

There's a video on youtube of this. Makes me grin every time I see it.
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#8 Sep 27 2012 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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Scale of the Universe 2 was released this year. Its quite an improvement.
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#9 Sep 27 2012 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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#10 Sep 27 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Jophiel wrote:
Douglas Adams wrote:
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

Smiley: thumbsup
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#11 Sep 27 2012 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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What’s your favorite thing about space? Mine is space.

Space.

Gotta go to space. Lady. Lady.

Oo. Oo. Oo. Lady. Oo. Lady. Oo. Let’s go to space.

Space going to space can’t wait.

Space…

Space. Trial. Puttin’ the system on trial. In space. Space system. On trial. Guilty. Of being in space! Going to space jail!

Dad! I’m in space!
[low-pitched 'space' voice] I’m proud of you, son.
[normal voice] Dad, are you space?
[low-pitched 'space' voice] Yes. Now we are a family again.

Space space wanna go to space yes please space. Space space. Go to space.

Space space wanna go to space

Space space going to space oh boy

Ba! Ba! Ba ba ba! Space! Ba! Ba! Ba ba ba!

Oh. Play it cool. Play it cool. Here come the space cops. Help me, space cops. Space cops, help.

Going to space going there can’t wait gotta go. Space. Going.

Better buy a telescope. Wanna see me. Buy a telescope. Gonna be in space.

Space. Space.

I’m going to space.

Oh boy.

Yeah yeah yeah okay okay.

Space. Space. Gonna go to space.

Space. Space. Go to space.

Yes. Please. Space.

Ba! Ba! Ba ba ba! Space!

Gonna be in space.

Ohhhh, space.

Wanna go to space. Space.

Let’s go – let’s go to space. Let’s go to space.

I love space. Love space.

Atmosphere. Black holes. Astronauts. Nebulas. Jupiter. The Big Dipper.

Orbit. Space orbit. In my spacesuit.

Space…

Ohhh, the Sun. I’m gonna meet the Sun. Oh no! What’ll I say? ‘Hi! Hi, Sun!’ Oh, boy!

Look, an eclipse! No. Don’t look.

Come here, space. I have a secret for you. No, come closer.

Space space wanna go to space

Wanna go to — wanna go to space

Space wanna go wanna go to space wanna go to space

I’m going to space.

Hey hey hey hey hey!

Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey lady. Lady. Space! Lady. Oh I know! I know I know I know I know I know – let’s go to space!

Oooh! Ooh! Hi hi hi hi hi. Where we going? Where we going? Hey. Lady. Where we going? Where we going? Let’s go to space!

Lady. I love space. I know! Spell it! S P… AACE. Space. Space.

I love space.

Hey lady. Lady. I’m the best. I’m the best at space.

Oh oh oh oh. Wait wait. Wait I know. I know. I know wait. Space.

Wait wait wait wait. I know I know I know. Lady wait. Wait. I know. Wait. Space.

Gotta go to space.

Gonna be in space.

Oh oh oh ohohohoh oh. Gotta go to space.

Space. Space. Space. Space. Comets. Stars. Galaxies. Orion.

Are we in space yet? What’s the hold-up? Gotta go to space. Gotta go to SPACE.

Going to space.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m going. Going to space.

Love space. Need to go to space.

Space space space. Going. Going there. Okay. I love you, space.

So much space. Need to see it all.

You are the farthest ever in space. Why me, space? Because you are the best. I’m the best at space? Yes.

Space Court. For people in space. Judge space sun presiding. Bam. Guilty. Of being in space. I’m in space.

Please go to space.

Wanna go to space.

Gotta go to space. Yeah. Gotta go to space.

Hmmm. Hmmmmmm. Hmm. Hmmmmm. Space!

Ohmygodohmygodohmygod! I’m in space!

Space? SPACE!

I’m in space. Where am I? Guess. Guess guess guess. I’m in space. There’s a star. There’s another one. Star. Star star star. Star. Getting bored of space. Bam! Bam bam bam! Take that, space.

Are we in space? We are? Oh oh oh. This is space! I’m in space! We made it we made it we made it. Space!

Earth. Wanna go to earth. Wanna go to earth wanna go to earth wanna go to earth wanna go to earth. Wanna go to earth. Wanna go home. Wanna go home wanna go home wanna go home wanna go home. Earth earth earth. Don’t like space. Don’t like space. It’s too big. Too big. Wanna go home. Wanna go to earth.

SPAAACCCCCE!

SPAAACE!

YEEEHAAAAAW!
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#12 Sep 27 2012 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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#13 Sep 27 2012 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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^ thats why I love space.
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#14 Sep 28 2012 at 1:56 AM Rating: Excellent
An old stream found on Mars.
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#15 Sep 28 2012 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:


^ thats why I love space.


Here is another great universe song!

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#16 Sep 28 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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haha nice one Monkey I remember that from my youth.
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#17 Sep 28 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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Mars fish, yes please.
#18 Sep 28 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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This topic got me clicking around the NASA website. It's a real shame there are so many abandoned pages and downed links. Space exploration and astronomy are something that can bring the world together and help us understand ourselves.
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#19 Sep 28 2012 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Easier to say God did it. At least acording tho the Republicans who began cutting the piss out of the NASA budget.
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#20 Sep 28 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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I had never really attributed the downsizing of the space program to the republicans. Neither party has really championed space exploration in the last couple decades.

I like the stuff at the other end of scale - the teenyweeny critters that are so alien and so cunning and the photo's we're now seeing of atoms making their beautiful patterns.

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#21 Sep 28 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Easier to say God did it. At least acording tho the Republicans who began cutting the piss out of the NASA budget.


Sigh... Really?
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#22 Oct 01 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sigh... Really?


To which part, Slappy? That Republicans are anti-science? They are, unequivocally. It's idiotic to argue otherwise. To the part about gutting NASA? They did. Democrats too, to be sure. Probably because NASA was and is a poorly run waste machine that returns occasional home runs, but overall average results at a massive cost. Government does a lot of things well, including science, but PR based human spaceflight doesn't seem to be one of them.
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#23 Oct 01 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Government does a lot of things well, including science, but PR based human spaceflight doesn't seem to be one of them.

*Gasp!*

Sell it to the Nazis, Ayn Rand! Smiley: mad
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#24gbaji, Posted: Oct 01 2012 at 6:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Huh. Which is a good explanation for why the GOP might cut funding for NASA, but doesn't at all explain how the Dems with their "spend for the sake of spending" economic policy would do so. Which makes one wonder why the post I commented on referenced Republicans but not Democrats. Seems like they're the ones with no real policy reason to make such cuts. Perhaps they've got religious reasons for doing so then. I mean, if we're just going to toss out wild speculation here.
#25 Oct 01 2012 at 6:20 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
I had never really attributed the downsizing of the space program to the republicans. Neither party has really championed space exploration in the last couple decades.


Except for Bush, who actively championed it and pushed to make more missions involving Mars a priority in our space program. And McCain, who actually included working towards a manned mission to Mars in his campaign. Call it fluff or empty promises if you want, but what has Obama promised much less delivered in this area?

The Democrats have been many times worse in terms of NASA funding that the Republicans. I can only assume the need for liberals who otherwise like the space program to continually suggest that both parties are equally to blame for NASA cuts is because they don't want to acknowledge that their own party is really the biggest culprit. The GOP starts with a small government mentality. They often make a point of making an exception with regard to spending on space. It's usually the Democrats who target NASA for cuts whenever there are budget negotiations on the table. The GOP is often forced to accept cuts to NASA in order to get any cuts at all. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the GOP is somehow anti space exploration and the Dems are for it. The reality is the exact opposite.


Dems want to spend as much as possible on social programs. GOP wants to spend as little as possible in total. The result presents Dems with a limited resources situation where the choice is between spending more on educating people about how they can get more food stamps and spending money on a mars rover. This is an easy choice for them. Was anyone really of the opinion that the Democrats as a party care at all about NASA? What part of their political methodology makes people think that they put long term anything against short term something? They use words like "investment", but always mean "direct spending for a direct benefit today" when they say it. This is no different. There's no direct benefit from space exploration. It wont feed a single voter, or send their kids to school, or buy them a bus pass. The fact that it may be (is IMO) absolutely critical for the long term prospects (and even survival) of our species just doesn't matter next to those other things.


Democrats just don't tend to think long term. And space exploration is about as long term as it gets.

Edited, Oct 1st 2012 5:21pm by gbaji
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#26 Oct 01 2012 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's entirely appropriate to call Bush's space goals fluff given that no progress was made towards them during his term.

I mean, "shame on you, Obama for not promising Bush's moon base! You obviously don't love space as much as Republicans if you're not willing to just make up some fantasy goals after watching Lost In Space marathons!"
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#27 Oct 02 2012 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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False, false, and false. See how easy that is?


Uh huh. I'm sure it's easy to type. The difference when I do it is that I have the credibility for it to have meaning beyond comedy. Understand? Me = gravitas like a motherfucker. You = Birther lightweight punchline.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. @#%^ off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#28 Oct 02 2012 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I had never really attributed the downsizing of the space program to the republicans. Neither party has really championed space exploration in the last couple decades.


Except for Bush, who actively championed it and pushed to make more missions involving Mars a priority in our space program. And McCain, who actually included working towards a manned mission to Mars in his campaign. Call it fluff or empty promises if you want, but what has Obama promised much less delivered in this area?

The Democrats have been many times worse in terms of NASA funding that the Republicans. I can only assume the need for liberals who otherwise like the space program to continually suggest that both parties are equally to blame for NASA cuts is because they don't want to acknowledge that their own party is really the biggest culprit. The GOP starts with a small government mentality. They often make a point of making an exception with regard to spending on space. It's usually the Democrats who target NASA for cuts whenever there are budget negotiations on the table. The GOP is often forced to accept cuts to NASA in order to get any cuts at all. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the GOP is somehow anti space exploration and the Dems are for it. The reality is the exact opposite.


Dems want to spend as much as possible on social programs. GOP wants to spend as little as possible in total. The result presents Dems with a limited resources situation where the choice is between spending more on educating people about how they can get more food stamps and spending money on a mars rover. This is an easy choice for them. Was anyone really of the opinion that the Democrats as a party care at all about NASA? What part of their political methodology makes people think that they put long term anything against short term something? They use words like "investment", but always mean "direct spending for a direct benefit today" when they say it. This is no different. There's no direct benefit from space exploration. It wont feed a single voter, or send their kids to school, or buy them a bus pass. The fact that it may be (is IMO) absolutely critical for the long term prospects (and even survival) of our species just doesn't matter next to those other things.


Democrats just don't tend to think long term. And space exploration is about as long term as it gets.

Edited, Oct 1st 2012 5:21pm by gbaji
Smiley: rolleyes

Is everything an epeen contest between political parties with you?

You must be a blast at parties.


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#29 Oct 02 2012 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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You must be a blast at parties.

Republican parties?
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#30 Oct 02 2012 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
You must be a blast at parties.

Republican parties?

I'm thinking he could spoil a tupperware party with his impervious drivel.
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#31 Oct 02 2012 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
And McCain, who actually included working towards a manned mission to Mars in his campaign.
And Gingrich promised Moon Bases by 2020. Shame you guys went with the wet noodle instead.
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#32 Oct 02 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

Except for Bush, who actively championed it and pushed to make more missions involving Mars a priority in our space program. And McCain, who actually included working towards a manned mission to Mars in his campaign. Call it fluff or empty promises if you want, but what has Obama promised much less delivered in this area?


FLUFF! Smiley: mad

Actually it was one of the few things I liked about the guy.

gbaji wrote:
Democrats just don't tend to think long term.


Global warming is coming.

Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#33 Oct 02 2012 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:

gbaji wrote:
Democrats just don't tend to think long term.


Global warming is coming.

Smiley: tinfoilhat

And free-market capitalism is really geared toward the long-term as well. Make as much profit any way you can to satisfy your own Randian selfishness, and then after you're gone, who cares?

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#34Palpitus1, Posted: Oct 21 2012 at 6:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Remarking on scale, I have to mention Phil Plait's blog. Here he shows that the Sun is 400,000 as luminescent as the full moon. And in another follow up post I can't find he shows that the faintest star discovered has a luminosity approximately Avogadro's Number less as compared to the brightest feature (our sun).
#35 Oct 21 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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You do know that the full moon is simply reflecting the light from the sun right? So really the sun is infinitely more luminescent than the moon. It doesn't lumen at all

Edited, Oct 21st 2012 10:52am by rdmcandie
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#36 Oct 21 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Palpitus1 wrote:
Remarking on scale, I have to mention Phil Plait's blog. Here he shows that the Sun is 400,000 as luminescent as the full moon. And in another follow up post I can't find he shows that the faintest star discovered has a luminosity approximately Avogadro's Number less as compared to the brightest feature (our sun).

Anyone intereested in astronomy should surely check Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" blog.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/

Quote:
a luminosity approximately Avogadro's Number less as compared to


I am not sure you know what that means. I will wait here and let you figure it out.
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#37 Oct 21 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
Palpitus1 wrote:
Remarking on scale, I have to mention Phil Plait's blog. Here he shows that the Sun is 400,000 as luminescent as the full moon. And in another follow up post I can't find he shows that the faintest star discovered has a luminosity approximately Avogadro's Number less as compared to the brightest feature (our sun).

Anyone intereested in astronomy should surely check Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" blog.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/

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a luminosity approximately Avogadro's Number less as compared to


I am not sure you know what that means. I will wait here and let you figure it out.


There's nothing actually wrong with that statement. Other than it just being used to say "Hey, it's really really really dim compared to our sun" and is actually meaningless in terms of the usage of Avogadro's number.
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#38 Oct 21 2012 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Damnit, don't give him the answer! Smiley: motz
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#39 Oct 21 2012 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
Alpha Centauri has a planet.

No word on whether or not said planet is actually Cybertron.
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#40 Oct 21 2012 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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This thread is a perfect allegory for NASA over the past 50 years or so: lots of early potential, but eventually digressed into pointless partisan bickering.
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#41 Oct 22 2012 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Alpha Centauri has a planet.

No word on whether or not said planet is actually Cybertron.
Skynet, the Matrix, and the Borg. I think that's the order of events.
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#42 Oct 22 2012 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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What happens when the Borg find Cybertron?
#43 Oct 22 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
What happens when the Borg find Cybertron?


I would watch this movie!
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#44 Oct 22 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
What happens when the Borg find Cybertron?
I don't think they so much find Cybertron as they make it and eventually become the Autobots and Decepticons in a weird retro-evolution.
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#45 Oct 22 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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And then travel back in time in search of a teenager with a penchant for old man glasses?
#46 Oct 22 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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Until you realize that it would be a Michael Bay production
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#47 Oct 22 2012 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Until you realize that it would be a Michael Bay production


It's better than Uwe Boll or Paul W.S. Anderson directing it.


Edited, Oct 22nd 2012 1:09pm by Shaowstrike
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#48Palpitus1, Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 7:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The answer is that you are either an inorrigible pedant or an utter moron. Maybe both.
#49 Nov 02 2012 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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Palpitus1 wrote:
Criminy wrote:
Damnit, don't give him the answer! Smiley: motz


Jesus Christ, you idiot. Avogadro's Number (obviously the number of discrete units in a mole, I learned this in high school) was used by me as a quirky, obviously not math-for-math description, but rather a high-power-to-the-tenth example of how greatly the luminosity difference is between the lowest lumens/candle-lights and the highest.
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Don't give me the answer?
The answer is that you are either an inorrigible pedant or an utter moron. Maybe both.


Boy princess it sure took you a long time to look up what that is. Also the insult you are trying to use is "incorrigible pedant" which, when you use it, is a bit on the ironic side. Better luck next time. Smiley: nod
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