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Bill Nye defends EvolutionFollow

#1 Aug 27 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anyone see this? Link

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Denial of evolution is unique to the United States. I mean, we're the world's most advanced technological—I mean, you could say Japan—but generally, the United States is where most of the innovations still happens. People still move to the United States. And that's largely because of the intellectual capital we have, the general understanding of science. When you have a portion of the population that doesn't believe in that, it holds everybody back, really.

Evolution is the fundamental idea in all of life science, in all of biology. It's like, it's very much analogous to trying to do geology without believing in tectonic plates. You're just not going to get the right answer. Your whole world is just going to be a mystery instead of an exciting place.

As my old professor, Carl Sagan, said, "When you're in love you want to tell the world." So, once in a while I get people that really—or that claim—they don't believe in evolution. And my response generally is "Well, why not? Really, why not?" Your world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don't believe in evolution. I mean, here are these ancient dinosaur bones or fossils, here is radioactivity, here are distant stars that are just like our star but they're at a different point in their lifecycle. The idea of deep time, of this billions of years, explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your world view just becomes crazy, just untenable, itself inconsistent.

And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that's fine, but don't make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can—we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems.

It's just really hard a thing, it's really a hard thing. You know, in another couple of centuries that world view, I'm sure, will be, it just won't exist. There's no evidence for it.


I miss Bill Nye The Science Guy, loved that show.
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#2 Aug 27 2012 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, evidence is pretty antithesis to faith.

Bill Nye and Beakman's World were the only people/shows that really made science interesting to me.

Edited, Aug 27th 2012 12:51pm by lolgaxe
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#3 Aug 27 2012 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Bill Nye and Beakman's World were the only people/shows that really made science interesting to me.


Even before Bill Nye, I watched Mr. Wizard's World. I can honestly say that single show that put me on a path to intellectual curiosity.


Edited, Aug 27th 2012 12:28pm by BrownDuck
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#4 Aug 27 2012 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can honestly say that single show that put me on a path to intellectual curiosity.
Which one lead you away from it?
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#5 Aug 27 2012 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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I was going to make a thread for it, but looks like Houston schools ban Fake Science. I think this will be a good step in their efforts to keep people from generally mocking education in Texas.
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#6 Aug 27 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, banning books. This has been proven a successful and American tradition.
#7 Aug 27 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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I could see not wanting teachers to spend their (already limited) classroom funds on a "fake" science textbook, but why not let a teacher purchase it with his or her own money to have on the classroom shelf for check out? The article gives the impression that it's straight up banned from classrooms.
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#8 Aug 27 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I could see not wanting teachers to spend their (already limited) classroom funds on a "fake" science textbook, but why not let a teacher purchase it with his or her own money to have on the classroom shelf for check out? The article gives the impression that it's straight up banned from classrooms.

Yeah, if they decided not to purchase nine thousand to use as a classroom science textbook, no big deal. If they're actually trying to ban the book from schools - ie libraries, reference literature etc, that would sit less well with me.

Epcot has a ride about energy, it's just a movie really but the seats move some and fake dinosaurs spit on you. The movie stars Ellen DeGeneres and Bill Nye It's one of my favorite attractions. Ellen and Bill make a good comedy duo.
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#9 Aug 27 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Bill Nye did an AMA on Reddit about a month ago. It was pretty neat.
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#10 Aug 27 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/x9pq0/iam_bill_nye_the_science_guy_ama/
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#11 Aug 27 2012 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I was going to make a thread for it, but looks like Houston schools ban Fake Science. I think this will be a good step in their efforts to keep people from generally mocking education in Texas.



From the article:

Quote:
This book is not permissable for you to distribute or your students to have.


So, wait. Students are forbidden to have this book? I would so have this book if I were a student in a Houston school. By tomorrow if possible.
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#12 Aug 27 2012 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
This book is not permissable for you to distribute or your students to have.


So, wait. Students are forbidden to have this book? I would so have this book if I were a student in a Houston school. By tomorrow if possible.

Ditto.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#13Demea, Posted: Aug 27 2012 at 6:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Good to know that Mr. Nye is here to defend evolution from... who, exactly?
#14 Aug 27 2012 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Good to know that Mr. Nye is here to defend evolution from... who, exactly?

Idiots on school boards.
Quote:
Also, people who completely discount the possibility of intelligent design and accept evolution as The One And Only Truth are operating on just as much faith as the bible-thumpers.

Nonsense.
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You may now discuss for 20 pages.

No need.
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#15 Aug 27 2012 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
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Also, people who completely discount the possibility of intelligent design and accept evolution as The One And Only Truth are operating on just as much faith as the bible-thumpers.

Nonsense.

NO U
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#16 Aug 27 2012 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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NO U

Discuss for twenty pages.
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#17 Aug 27 2012 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Demea wrote:
NO U

Discuss for twenty pages.

I've been following this topic for 20 threads now...
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#18 Aug 27 2012 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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The o is clearly backwards.
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#19 Aug 27 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
The o is clearly backwards.


Wrong, it's upside down. Obviously.
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#20 Aug 28 2012 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
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What's keeping the "U" from tipping over?
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#21 Aug 28 2012 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
The o is clearly backwards.
Wrong, it's upside down. Obviously.
Figures your liberal bias would see it in the wrong direction.
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#22 Aug 28 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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Demea wrote:
Good to know that Mr. Nye is here to defend evolution from... who, exactly?


From those scary religious folks who apparently want to force everyone to believe in the 7 days biblical account and reject evolution. Of course, it's hard to find enough of those scary religious folks actually doing anything with regard to this issue, so defenders of evolution have to periodically bring up the issue themselves just to make sure that no one forgets to be very very afraid of those people and the party they tend to vote for (that's the GOP in case you missed it). Never mind that nothing new has happened here. It's an election year, so we've got to make sure the people are scared. How scared you ask? Well, scared enough to ignore the very real problems going on with the economy, foreign policy, illegal gun walking schemes, and attendant cover ups in order to vote against the party associated with such scary stuff at a national level (cause school districts are directly run by the federal government!).


Be afraid. Be very afraid!
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#23 Aug 28 2012 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's true. Bill Nye has started talking about science for the first time ever and it was to distract the American people from illegal gun walking schemes.


Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh
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#24 Aug 28 2012 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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Very considerate of him to start distracting us from all that scary stuff two decades ago.
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#25 Aug 28 2012 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Demea wrote:
Good to know that Mr. Nye is here to defend evolution from... who, exactly?


From those scary religious folks who apparently want to force everyone to believe in the 7 days biblical account and reject evolution. Of course, it's hard to find enough of those scary religious folks actually doing anything with regard to this issue, so defenders of evolution have to periodically bring up the issue themselves just to make sure that no one forgets to be very very afraid of those people and the party they tend to vote for (that's the GOP in case you missed it).

Fixed that for you. Yeah, there's definitely no one attempting to introduce creationism into schools. Except, y'know, all those folks who do exactly that.

Gotta give Romney credit though. He's the only GOP presidential candidate who said he believes in the theory of evolution.

Edited, Aug 28th 2012 8:35pm by LockeColeMA
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#26 Aug 28 2012 at 6:36 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
It's true. Bill Nye has started talking about science for the first time ever and it was to distract the American people from illegal gun walking schemes.


And yet, this video and transcript appears online so that people can link to it and create threads about it just this week. Shocking!
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#27 Aug 28 2012 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
it's hard to find enough of those scary religious folks actually doing anything with regard to this issue,

Pluralities are pretty small, rounded they're 0% of the population. It's not like they ever did anything about it. Well, it's not like they've ever done anything about it recently. And it's not like there are numerous similar bills that nearly passed in several other states this year.

Edited, Aug 28th 2012 7:49pm by Allegory
#28 Aug 28 2012 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
It's true. Bill Nye has started talking about science for the first time ever and it was to distract the American people from illegal gun walking schemes.
And yet, this video and transcript appears online so that people can link to it and create threads about it just this week. Shocking!

I know, right?! It's like he didn't even GET the memo that no one is allowed to talk about science in an election year!

Holy shit it must be gun running!!!
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#29 Aug 28 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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Before we know it, they're going to be wanting to educate our boys on how a uterus works.
#30gbaji, Posted: Aug 28 2012 at 7:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Which isn't really new or special. You're arguing exceptions and not the rule.
#31gbaji, Posted: Aug 28 2012 at 7:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Do any of those require that creationism be taught in a public classroom? Or do they merely allow debate and discussion. Do you get that these laws are passed in response to regulations which forbid any debate or discussion, usually specifically aimed at any sort of expression of religious belief? There's a difference between requiring something to be taught and removing a prohibition from it even being discussed at all.
#32 Aug 28 2012 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see anyone being forced to believe anything.


Oh, that's the argument? Well dang, I thought you said it was hard to find anyone wanting to teach these beliefs in classrooms. My bad, here I thought you were lying Smiley: lol

Quote:
I see legal changes removing punitive restrictions on teachers who make the mistake of mentioning their personal beliefs in a classroom setting though.


Just to be sure we're on the same page here: you are arguing that this legislation is not an effort to teach creationism in classrooms (for example, the public schools that, er, teach creationism), but to protect teachers who "accidentally" mention it?

Wow, usually you're better at lying than this. You feeling tired today?

Quote:
Not sure how that even remotely equates to forcing people to believe in creationism.


I'm confused. What, in your mind, would "force" people to believe in creationism... anything short of putting a gun to their heads and demanding they believe it?

Quote:
I just happen to think that hiding information is the wrong way to prove a position to be true.


Hey there, abstinence-only education.
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#33 Aug 28 2012 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

Do any of those require that creationism be taught in a public classroom? Or do they merely allow debate and discussion.


ITT: gbaji is fine with classrooms not teaching evolution, but learning about the FSM.
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#34 Aug 28 2012 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Do you get that these laws are passed in response to regulations which forbid any debate or discussion

I very much do. While I'm very much opposed to laws forcing educators to teach homeopathy instead of health science, I'm still not keen on them being allowed to teach it as a very real and viable alternative theory.

I thought you'd be more concerned about how your tax dollars are being spent.
#35 Aug 28 2012 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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#36 Aug 28 2012 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Do you get that these laws are passed in response to regulations which forbid any debate or discussion

I very much do. While I'm very much opposed to laws forcing educators to teach homeopathy instead of health science, I'm still not keen on them being allowed to teach it as a very real and viable alternative theory.

I thought you'd be more concerned about how your tax dollars are being spent.

*Any* tax dollars being spent on education is a waste, dontchaknow?
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#37 Aug 28 2012 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Or do they merely allow debate and discussion.

What debate?
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#38 Aug 28 2012 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Or do they merely allow debate and discussion.

What debate?


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#39 Aug 28 2012 at 9:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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#40 Aug 29 2012 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
I just find it humorous because I attended religious school. We studied biology and astronomy and evolution just like any other school. No one ever had an issue with it. But then, it wasn't taught in a manner designed specifically to attack religious beliefs.
Right, because the Catholic Church decided a long time ago that this "science" stuff had something going for it, evolution included.
















I'm sorry, did you mean to trick somebody by saying "religious" instead of "Catholic"?

Now I've gone and spoilt your point.
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#41 Aug 29 2012 at 5:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I see legal changes removing punitive restrictions on teachers who make the mistake of mentioning their personal beliefs in a classroom setting though.


That's well and good as long as other teachers are also allowed to mention their personal beliefs, etc.

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#42 Aug 29 2012 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


Be afraid. Be very afraid!
You'd rather all political debate remain focused on the women's amazing ability to shut down during rape?

Is that science or magic?
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#43 Aug 29 2012 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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Leave it to a liberal to discount the possibility of voodoo.
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#44 Aug 29 2012 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are scientists really that afraid that if a group of students is presented with their science on the one hand, and a mythological story on the other, that they won't see any difference?

Creationism (or "intelligent design") isn't presented as mythological stories, as you well know since you've defended it previously on this forum. It's pseudo-science based on a faulty and intentionally disingenuous presentation of evolution followed by "So it must be something else!"

Which, yes, when children (who have a child's grasp on critical thinking and no scientific foundation to refute from) are taught that by a supposed authority, I can imagine that might upset some scientists.

Or, you know, maybe they're just trying to distract from gun walking scandals. Either is equally plausible I guess. Just like "A wizard must have made it" is an equally plausible alternative to evolution.

Edited, Aug 29th 2012 2:00pm by Jophiel
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#45 Aug 29 2012 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's an election year, so we've got to make sure the people are scared. How scared you ask? Well, scared enough to ignore the very real problems going on with the economy, foreign policy, illegal gun walking schemes, and attendant cover ups in order to vote against the party associated with such scary stuff at a national level (cause school districts are directly run by the federal government!).


Didn't see this mentioned before, but it's not like this is the first time Bill Nye has said science and religion don't mesh perfectly. In 2006, he refuted Genesis 1:16 at a presentation in Waco, saying that the moon obviously reflects light; it doesn't produce it like the Bible says. Several people booed and walked out.

I'm sure that he probably talked about that to distract from gun running too though, right? Smiley: rolleyes
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#46 Aug 29 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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2006 was a midterm election year. Smiley: oyvey
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#47 Aug 29 2012 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're only allowed to mention science during odd-numbered years.

That said, would that mean moon rocks emit light as well? We need to get back onto the moon and stock up -- we can cut US energy consumption when our homes and businesses are all illuminated with natural, divinely occurring moonlight.

Unless it turns out to be deadly poisonous

Edited, Aug 29th 2012 1:05pm by Jophiel
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#48 Aug 29 2012 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Unless it turns out to be deadly poisonous


Psh, you're not thinking around the problem. We'll just rebrand it "Clean Moon Rock" and call it a day.
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#49 Aug 29 2012 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
You're only allowed to mention science during odd-numbered years.

That said, would that mean moon rocks emit light as well? We need to get back onto the moon and stock up -- we can cut US energy consumption when our homes and businesses are all illuminated with natural, divinely occurring moonlight.

Unless it turns out to be deadly poisonous

Still gotta be safer than nucular power though, right?
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#50 Aug 29 2012 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Mission accomplished.

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#51 Aug 29 2012 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
You're only allowed to mention science during odd-numbered years.

That said, would that mean moon rocks emit light as well? We need to get back onto the moon and stock up -- we can cut US energy consumption when our homes and businesses are all illuminated with natural, divinely occurring moonlight.

Unless it turns out to be deadly poisonous

Still gotta be safer than nucular power though, right?

I'm assuming this statement is facetious.
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