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#152Almalieque, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 10:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wait.. aren't you a premium member?
#153 Aug 25 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Premium isn't required to search.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#154 Aug 25 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Premium isn't required to search.
A search won't find what isn't there.Smiley: schooled
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Allegory wrote:
Bijou your art is exceptionally creepy. It seems like their should be something menacing about it, yet no such tone is present.
#155 Aug 25 2012 at 12:00 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
That may explain why it's inadvisable. It does not explain why it's wrong.


Wait, are you saying that the current reasons for marriage age laws don't do that already? I'm just cosigning with them.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#156 Aug 25 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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This thread is now about the question: "Would the USA be in a better place today, politically speaking, if the CSA was allowed to leave the union?"
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#157 Aug 25 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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No, current marriage laws do not define marriage between and 18-year-old and a 50-year-old as "wrong". Try again.

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#158 Aug 25 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
No, current marriage laws do not define marriage between and 18-year-old and a 50-year-old as "wrong". Try again.



You asked why I thought it was wrong. I said that I believe it is wrong for the same exact reasons why the marriage laws prevent marriage between a 17 year old and a 50 year old. That 18 year old is just as mature, just as in "danger" and just as much inexperienced than s/he was 60 seconds prior to his/her birthday.

If you believe otherwise, please provide to me this magical difference that happens INSIDE the person within that 60 second period. OR, you can just admit that there is no internal difference with that individual and society just decided to choose that age because it coincides with most of our other laws.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#159 Aug 25 2012 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think it is wrong for a 17 year old to marry someone older. He or she would need parental consent in many states.

You've only defined the difference between legal and illegal, not right and wrong. I'm specifically interested in your use of the word "wrong".
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#160 Aug 25 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
You asked why I thought it was wrong. I said that I believe it is wrong for the same exact reasons why the marriage laws prevent marriage between a 17 year old and a 50 year old. That 18 year old is just as mature, just as in "danger" and just as much inexperienced than s/he was 60 seconds prior to his/her birthday.

If you believe otherwise, please provide to me this magical difference that happens INSIDE the person within that 60 second period. OR, you can just admit that there is no internal difference with that individual and society just decided to choose that age because it coincides with most of our other laws.

"Magic changes" strawman arguments aside, it's not necessarily illegal for a 17 year old to marry a 50 year old anyway.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#161 Aug 25 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think "parental consent" largely covered that, but thanks!
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#162 Aug 25 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Premium isn't required to search.

I did not know that. So, there really is no excuse for his laziness. Gotcha!

Samira wrote:
I don't think it is wrong for a 17 year old to marry someone older. He or she would need parental consent in many states.


You're hiding behind the law. Do you or do you not think it's wrong for a minor to marry an adult regardless of the law? Or do you believe it's ok for minors to marry adults only if there's parental approval? Is there a restriction to that parental approval? Do you support a 12 year old getting married with parental approval?

Samira wrote:

You've only defined the difference between legal and illegal, not right and wrong. I'm specifically interested in your use of the word "wrong".


Let's try this again. You asked me why I think it's WRONG for an 18 year old to marry a 50 year old. I said I believe it is WRONG for the SAME reasons why the law says its wrong for a 17 year old and a 50 year old to marry. It's wrong because there is no difference between someone who is 17 years, 11 months, 30 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes old and an 18 year old.

Since you support the current laws, only if you believe that there is a difference between the two can you argue that I haven't provided a reason on why it is WRONG.

Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
You asked why I thought it was wrong. I said that I believe it is wrong for the same exact reasons why the marriage laws prevent marriage between a 17 year old and a 50 year old. That 18 year old is just as mature, just as in "danger" and just as much inexperienced than s/he was 60 seconds prior to his/her birthday.

If you believe otherwise, please provide to me this magical difference that happens INSIDE the person within that 60 second period. OR, you can just admit that there is no internal difference with that individual and society just decided to choose that age because it coincides with most of our other laws.

"Magic changes" strawman arguments aside, it's not necessarily illegal for a 17 year old to marry a 50 year old anyway.


So, you believe it is ok for each state to have their own restrictions on what age can marry and if they need approval to marry? In other words, it doesn't bother you that some minors can't get married even in states that allow parental approval because of their age, i.e. 13,14 or 15?

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 10:25pm by Almalieque
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#163 Aug 25 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think I posted before reading your post but thanks back at ya for the +1 Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#164 Aug 25 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Premium isn't required to search.
I did not know that. So, there really is no excuse for his laziness. Gotcha!

I'm not even sure what your little spat there is. I was just tired of reading "YOU HAVE PREMIUMS DONT U?!?!?!" over and over.

Quote:
So, you believe it is ok for each state to have their own restrictions on what age can marry and if they need approval to marry?

In this context? Yup.
Quote:
In other words, it doesn't bother you that some minors can't get married even in states that allow parental approval because of their age, i.e. 13,14 or 15?

Nope.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#165 Aug 25 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
Alma wrote:
lol I never asked you why you thought homosexuality wasn't wrong. Another example of you simply not understanding the conversation at hand. Yet, you want me to transition into something much more complex, when you can't even understand simple questions. Haha.. When you demonstrate the capacity to comprehend the basis, then we can move on to the next topic. Or, we can keep +1ing.. whatever.


Post #151.
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#166 Aug 25 2012 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.
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#167 Aug 25 2012 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.


Anna Nicole Smith was unethical.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#168Almalieque, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 3:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's what I thought. So, you accept the fact that there are US marriage laws that prevent people from marrying regardless if parts of society believes it is "ok" or not? Furthermore, you approve of the ability of each state to make that deciding factor?
#169 Aug 25 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
I know that you already know where I'm going with this, so feel free to jump ahead.



Let me guess...

Alma wrote:
I was dropped on my head as a child. Repeatedly.

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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#170 Aug 25 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
That's what I thought. So, you accept the fact that there are US marriage laws that prevent people from marrying regardless if parts of society believes it is "ok" or not? Furthermore, you approve of the ability of each state to make that deciding factor?

Sure.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#171 Aug 25 2012 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Careful Joph, don't let him outsmart you with his word traps!
#172 Aug 25 2012 at 4:38 PM Rating: Default
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Alma wrote:
lol I never asked you why you thought homosexuality wasn't wrong. Another example of you simply not understanding the conversation at hand. Yet, you want me to transition into something much more complex, when you can't even understand simple questions. Haha.. When you demonstrate the capacity to comprehend the basis, then we can move on to the next topic. Or, we can keep +1ing.. whatever.


Post #151.


Post #151 is your post, not mine. What is that link supposed to prove?

Samira wrote:
I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.


I never said that two people had to be the same age in order to marry.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#173 Aug 25 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Careful Joph, don't let him outsmart you with his word traps!

It's like I'm dancing with the sphinx!
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#174 Aug 25 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Just like I think it's wrong for a 50 year old man to marry an 18 year old woman,


Why?
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#175 Aug 25 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.


As Alma's legal counsel and beat poet, I'll field this one.

In the slums of Kohlsberg, where Alma resides,
A man who is good is a man who abides;
By the law, that wonderful thing;
To break the law is an ethical sin.

An Alma being what an Alma must be,
He abides to this deontology:
Basic indeed - Do not be deceived:
Your question transgresses what is believed.

An answer he cannot conceive.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 11:31pm by Kavekk
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#176 Aug 25 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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/snaps fingers appreciatively

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#177 Aug 25 2012 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
Alma wrote:
What is that link supposed to prove?


It properly addresses your current & future responses, until such a time as you grow a pair.

I'm not holding my breath, as we've done this dance before & you remained a coward then too.

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#178Almalieque, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 6:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you want to +1, just say so. No need to make up reasons. I almost had sympathy for you until I realized you don't even need premium to search.. You can't even understand the conversation at hand and it's basic questions. My guess is that you searched and found my explanation and it went over your head and was hoping for me to reiterate it in layman terms for the possibility of you understanding it.
#179 Aug 25 2012 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Then we agree.

That's great, I guess. I think you fell a little short of fully thinking it through but I'm happy that you've decided that you agree with me.


Edited, Aug 25th 2012 7:21pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#180 Aug 25 2012 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
Alma wrote:

If you want to +1, just say so. No need to make up reasons. I almost had sympathy for you until I realized you don't even need premium to search.. You can't even understand the conversation at hand and it's basic questions. My guess is that you searched and found my explanation and it went over your head and was hoping for me to reiterate it in layman terms for the possibility of you understanding it.


If it gets an answer out of you, sure.
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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#181 Aug 25 2012 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Omegavegeta wrote:
Alma wrote:
What is that link supposed to prove?
It properly addresses your current & future responses, until such a time as you grow a pair.

I'm not holding my breath, as we've done this dance before & you remained a coward then too.

I've been following this technology for over 20 years months.

For the record I got super bored a few weeks ago and re-read all alma's posts in both of the major DADT threads. I also did searches with varying content clues. I also am pretty diligent about reading every post; yes, even gbaji's and alma's walls o' text. If you, alma, have ever given a reason for your views on homosexuality on this website I am utterly unable to find it.
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Allegory wrote:
Bijou your art is exceptionally creepy. It seems like their should be something menacing about it, yet no such tone is present.
#182 Aug 25 2012 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
For the record I got super bored a few weeks ago and re-read all alma's posts in both of the major DADT threads. I also did searches with varying content clues. I also am pretty diligent about reading every post; yes, even gbaji's and alma's walls o' text. If you, alma, have ever given a reason for your views on homosexuality on this website I am utterly unable to find it.


All I ever remember him saying was that he wasn't going to discuss it because it wasn't relevant to whatever thread he was posting in.
#183 Aug 25 2012 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I also am pretty diligent about reading every post; yes, even gbaji's and alma's walls o' text.

That's not gonna help your little vision problem. Smiley: grin
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#184 Aug 25 2012 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
Belkira wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
For the record I got super bored a few weeks ago and re-read all alma's posts in both of the major DADT threads. I also did searches with varying content clues. I also am pretty diligent about reading every post; yes, even gbaji's and alma's walls o' text. If you, alma, have ever given a reason for your views on homosexuality on this website I am utterly unable to find it.


All I ever remember him saying was that he wasn't going to discuss it because it wasn't relevant to whatever thread he was posting in.
I only mentioned this because he keeps saying he did tell us.

BrownDuck wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
I also am pretty diligent about reading every post; yes, even gbaji's and alma's walls o' text.

That's not gonna help your little vision problem. Smiley: grin
...and to think I was gonna "inb4 blah blah blind haha" Smiley: lol

ALSO: Fun fact: The quote in my sig is from the DADT thread.Smiley: laugh
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Allegory wrote:
Bijou your art is exceptionally creepy. It seems like their should be something menacing about it, yet no such tone is present.
#185 Aug 25 2012 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
For the record I got super bored a few weeks ago and re-read all alma's posts in both of the major DADT threads. I also did searches with varying content clues. I also am pretty diligent about reading every post; yes, even gbaji's and alma's walls o' text. If you, alma, have ever given a reason for your views on homosexuality on this website I am utterly unable to find it.


All I ever remember him saying was that he wasn't going to discuss it because it wasn't relevant to whatever thread he was posting in.
I only mentioned this because he keeps saying he did tell us.


I know. I was sort of half-assed backing you up. Smiley: lol
#186 Aug 25 2012 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Let's try this again. You asked me why I think it's WRONG for an 18 year old to marry a 50 year old. I said I believe it is WRONG for the SAME reasons why the law says its wrong for a 17 year old and a 50 year old to marry. It's wrong because there is no difference between someone who is 17 years, 11 months, 30 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes old and an 18 year old.



So.... no reason, then?

Look, if you can't articulate the reasoning behind a poorly thought out hyperbolic statement, it's okay to say so. You could have just said "it's no more wrong for an 18 year old to marry a man three times his/her age than it is for a 17 year old," to which I would have responded, "sure, but legally the 17 year old has to get parental consent in some states while the 18 year old is considered to be an adult." Your problem, then, seems to be with the arbitrary age of consent, to which I can only say (along with Joph, many times now) that there has to be SOME demarcation between needing parental guidance and having autonomy, and in the absence of universal objective maturity markers it's going to be somewhat arbitrary, like it or not.

It's a long leap from "I see no difference" to "this is wrong". "This is wrong" is a flat statement of fact, while "I see no difference" is a statement of opinion.

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#187 Aug 25 2012 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Using Alma's logic, no one is ever an adult. Because there's no difference between 17 and 18, 18 and 19, 19 and 20, 20 and 21, etc. So let's just cut out the middlemen and say there's no difference between a 10 year old and a 68 year old.
#188 Aug 25 2012 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
Using Alma's logic,
Screenshot
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#189 Aug 25 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
and say there's no difference between a 10 year old and a 68 year old.


You're getting dangerously close to summoning some ancient forum users all "Bloody Mary" style.
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#190 Aug 25 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Using Alma's logic,
Screenshot

Smiley: laugh

Ok, I see your point, but you know what I mean.
#191 Aug 25 2012 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Careful Joph, don't let him outsmart you with his word traps!

It's like I'm dancing with the sphinx sphincter!

Fixed.
#192Almalieque, Posted: Aug 26 2012 at 6:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I understand that leap, you're just avoiding my questions and intentionally creating a circular argument.
#193 Aug 26 2012 at 6:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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In all the time and posts you wasted saying that you've already stated your opinions and that they're too complex to fit in a single sentence you could've written your opinion a hundred times by now. Meanwhile nobody can remember or find that opinion anywhere.

Probably because you're too much of a coward to actually give your opinion on this and you're just hiding behind poor excuses and vague answers again.
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#194Almalieque, Posted: Aug 26 2012 at 6:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Or, that I was actively engaged in another topic that was irrelevant to his side argument in which engaging in would only muddy the conversation even more. Don't get me wrong, it's not "complex" at all, just for people like Omega V, who have a hard time understanding the current discussion that we were already having.
#195 Aug 26 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Alma wrote:

Or, that I was actively engaged in another topic that was irrelevant to his side argument in which engaging in would only muddy the conversation even more. Don't get me wrong, it's not "complex" at all, just for people like Omega V, who have a hard time understanding the current discussion that we were already having.
He answers random questions that I didn't even ask. Given the fact that my argument starts off with a series of questions, I see no reason why I want to transition to something that I know he wouldn't grasp.

Normally, I would transition now, since this argument is already dead, but given the fact that people are calling me a coward and a liar, I'll just let you figure it out yourselves or not. It's up to you, I don't care. It has already been provided at least twice and you not finding it or being too lazy to look for it, wont change that.

Once or if someone finds it or remembers it, I will then just say "I told you so". Me telling you is only fueling the belief that it never existed.


Still a coward, got it.
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#196Almalieque, Posted: Aug 26 2012 at 9:18 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Speaking of being a coward, I'm still waiting on your answer how a 35 year old would hurt a 15 year old any more or less than another 15 year old, or another 35 year old for that matter, Mr. "I answered all of your questions".
#197 Aug 26 2012 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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tl;dr: more blabbering on with excuses to not post your opinion. We've got it, you're a coward.
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YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#198 Aug 26 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
I didn't fall short at all. That's all that's important. People like to pretend that marriage is this happily fair and equal union where everyone gets to marry who they want, except for homosexuals, because that's "nasty". Accepting the fact that there are blatant discrimination laws that aren't even "across the board", means that any argument to change any law for marriage acceptance can not solely be on "it's discrimination".

That's never been my argument so... I don't know. Congratulations on getting me to admit to the same position I've always had?
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#199 Aug 26 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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It appears to be some dance on the "slippery slope" of homosexuality equating pedophilia and bestiality. Alma, you need a new hobby.
#200 Aug 26 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow. Relative to the amount of text entered, Alma seems to say even less than gbaji does.
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#201 Aug 26 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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And once again I'm done here. Holy ****.

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