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#152Almalieque, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 10:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wait.. aren't you a premium member?
#153 Aug 25 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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#154 Aug 25 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Premium isn't required to search.
A search won't find what isn't there.Smiley: schooled
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#155 Aug 25 2012 at 12:00 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
That may explain why it's inadvisable. It does not explain why it's wrong.


Wait, are you saying that the current reasons for marriage age laws don't do that already? I'm just cosigning with them.
#156 Aug 25 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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This thread is now about the question: "Would the USA be in a better place today, politically speaking, if the CSA was allowed to leave the union?"
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#157 Aug 25 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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No, current marriage laws do not define marriage between and 18-year-old and a 50-year-old as "wrong". Try again.

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#158 Aug 25 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
No, current marriage laws do not define marriage between and 18-year-old and a 50-year-old as "wrong". Try again.



You asked why I thought it was wrong. I said that I believe it is wrong for the same exact reasons why the marriage laws prevent marriage between a 17 year old and a 50 year old. That 18 year old is just as mature, just as in "danger" and just as much inexperienced than s/he was 60 seconds prior to his/her birthday.

If you believe otherwise, please provide to me this magical difference that happens INSIDE the person within that 60 second period. OR, you can just admit that there is no internal difference with that individual and society just decided to choose that age because it coincides with most of our other laws.
#159 Aug 25 2012 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think it is wrong for a 17 year old to marry someone older. He or she would need parental consent in many states.

You've only defined the difference between legal and illegal, not right and wrong. I'm specifically interested in your use of the word "wrong".
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#160 Aug 25 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
You asked why I thought it was wrong. I said that I believe it is wrong for the same exact reasons why the marriage laws prevent marriage between a 17 year old and a 50 year old. That 18 year old is just as mature, just as in "danger" and just as much inexperienced than s/he was 60 seconds prior to his/her birthday.

If you believe otherwise, please provide to me this magical difference that happens INSIDE the person within that 60 second period. OR, you can just admit that there is no internal difference with that individual and society just decided to choose that age because it coincides with most of our other laws.

"Magic changes" strawman arguments aside, it's not necessarily illegal for a 17 year old to marry a 50 year old anyway.
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#161 Aug 25 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think "parental consent" largely covered that, but thanks!
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#162 Aug 25 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Premium isn't required to search.

I did not know that. So, there really is no excuse for his laziness. Gotcha!

Samira wrote:
I don't think it is wrong for a 17 year old to marry someone older. He or she would need parental consent in many states.


You're hiding behind the law. Do you or do you not think it's wrong for a minor to marry an adult regardless of the law? Or do you believe it's ok for minors to marry adults only if there's parental approval? Is there a restriction to that parental approval? Do you support a 12 year old getting married with parental approval?

Samira wrote:

You've only defined the difference between legal and illegal, not right and wrong. I'm specifically interested in your use of the word "wrong".


Let's try this again. You asked me why I think it's WRONG for an 18 year old to marry a 50 year old. I said I believe it is WRONG for the SAME reasons why the law says its wrong for a 17 year old and a 50 year old to marry. It's wrong because there is no difference between someone who is 17 years, 11 months, 30 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes old and an 18 year old.

Since you support the current laws, only if you believe that there is a difference between the two can you argue that I haven't provided a reason on why it is WRONG.

Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
You asked why I thought it was wrong. I said that I believe it is wrong for the same exact reasons why the marriage laws prevent marriage between a 17 year old and a 50 year old. That 18 year old is just as mature, just as in "danger" and just as much inexperienced than s/he was 60 seconds prior to his/her birthday.

If you believe otherwise, please provide to me this magical difference that happens INSIDE the person within that 60 second period. OR, you can just admit that there is no internal difference with that individual and society just decided to choose that age because it coincides with most of our other laws.

"Magic changes" strawman arguments aside, it's not necessarily illegal for a 17 year old to marry a 50 year old anyway.


So, you believe it is ok for each state to have their own restrictions on what age can marry and if they need approval to marry? In other words, it doesn't bother you that some minors can't get married even in states that allow parental approval because of their age, i.e. 13,14 or 15?

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 10:25pm by Almalieque
#163 Aug 25 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think I posted before reading your post but thanks back at ya for the +1 Smiley: laugh
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#164 Aug 25 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Premium isn't required to search.
I did not know that. So, there really is no excuse for his laziness. Gotcha!

I'm not even sure what your little spat there is. I was just tired of reading "YOU HAVE PREMIUMS DONT U?!?!?!" over and over.

Quote:
So, you believe it is ok for each state to have their own restrictions on what age can marry and if they need approval to marry?

In this context? Yup.
Quote:
In other words, it doesn't bother you that some minors can't get married even in states that allow parental approval because of their age, i.e. 13,14 or 15?

Nope.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#165 Aug 25 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
Alma wrote:
lol I never asked you why you thought homosexuality wasn't wrong. Another example of you simply not understanding the conversation at hand. Yet, you want me to transition into something much more complex, when you can't even understand simple questions. Haha.. When you demonstrate the capacity to comprehend the basis, then we can move on to the next topic. Or, we can keep +1ing.. whatever.


Post #151.
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#166 Aug 25 2012 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.
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#167 Aug 25 2012 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.


Anna Nicole Smith was unethical.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#168Almalieque, Posted: Aug 25 2012 at 3:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's what I thought. So, you accept the fact that there are US marriage laws that prevent people from marrying regardless if parts of society believes it is "ok" or not? Furthermore, you approve of the ability of each state to make that deciding factor?
#169 Aug 25 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
I know that you already know where I'm going with this, so feel free to jump ahead.



Let me guess...

Alma wrote:
I was dropped on my head as a child. Repeatedly.

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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#170 Aug 25 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
That's what I thought. So, you accept the fact that there are US marriage laws that prevent people from marrying regardless if parts of society believes it is "ok" or not? Furthermore, you approve of the ability of each state to make that deciding factor?

Sure.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#171 Aug 25 2012 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Careful Joph, don't let him outsmart you with his word traps!
#172 Aug 25 2012 at 4:38 PM Rating: Default
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Alma wrote:
lol I never asked you why you thought homosexuality wasn't wrong. Another example of you simply not understanding the conversation at hand. Yet, you want me to transition into something much more complex, when you can't even understand simple questions. Haha.. When you demonstrate the capacity to comprehend the basis, then we can move on to the next topic. Or, we can keep +1ing.. whatever.


Post #151.


Post #151 is your post, not mine. What is that link supposed to prove?

Samira wrote:
I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.


I never said that two people had to be the same age in order to marry.
#173 Aug 25 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Careful Joph, don't let him outsmart you with his word traps!

It's like I'm dancing with the sphinx!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#174 Aug 25 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Just like I think it's wrong for a 50 year old man to marry an 18 year old woman,


Why?
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#175 Aug 25 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I'm not the one hiding behind the law. As far as I'm concerned, if a minor wants to marry and his or her parents agree that he or she is mature enough to make that choice, there's no problem. An 18-year-old, of course is free to marry.

What I want to know is why you think an age discrepancy is immoral, or unethical, or otherwise wrong absent a legal reason.


As Alma's legal counsel and beat poet, I'll field this one.

In the slums of Kohlsberg, where Alma resides,
A man who is good is a man who abides;
By the law, that wonderful thing;
To break the law is an ethical sin.

An Alma being what an Alma must be,
He abides to this deontology:
Basic indeed - Do not be deceived:
Your question transgresses what is believed.

An answer he cannot conceive.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 11:31pm by Kavekk
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#176 Aug 25 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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/snaps fingers appreciatively

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