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#202gbaji, Posted: Sep 13 2012 at 6:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Huh? What question? When did I say it wasn't about "real people". Those "real people" are members of "the Obama administration", right? You're really just flailing around in circles at this point. How about you stop, breathe for a bit, collect your thoughts, and try to explain in intelligible words what the hell problem you have with Romney's statement, keeping in mind that the same statement was disavowed by the White House.
#203 Sep 13 2012 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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These weren't just "Obama administration" in some vague sense. This wasn't the Sec of Ag or a random IRS employee or whatever. These were specific humans trapped in a dangerous situation and who Romney called sympathizers -- no I won't stop using the word -- to the people mobbing the embassy. Romney is a coward and a sad little man to use them in that manner to score political points.

Despite your repeated attempts to say "but... but... Obama...", the president never once accused those people of sympathizing with the mob nor called their remarks disgraceful. Romney did because some shoot from the hip political rhetoric means more to him than respect or understanding for the workers who made the statement. To him (and to you) they are nothing but faceless "Obama administration" to be insulted if it means he can try and make the president look bad.

It's craven, petty politics but it's apparently all that man knows. Feel free to keep defending him though. Maybe say "wtf?" Some more. That should help.

Edited, Sep 13th 2012 8:03pm by Jophiel
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#204 Sep 13 2012 at 7:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
No, that's not how English works.


Um... Yes, is it.


No, it's not. I understand that you want it to be that way. It would marginally help your argument. Unfortunately, that isn't how the English language works.

Sorry.
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#205 Sep 13 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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"Just because I said your first response was to sympathize with someone, I never once said you sympathized with them or were a sympathizer!!"

Nice argument Smiley: facepalm
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#206 Sep 13 2012 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I show sympathy for Joph having some sick passion to reply to Gbaji.
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#207 Sep 13 2012 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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#208 Sep 13 2012 at 10:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji quoting Romney wrote:
"It's disgraceful that the Obama Administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks."


Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't the first statement from "The Obama Administration", which is being referenced by Mr. Romney above, happened BEFORE the attacks, and have nothing to do with anything except to understand that some certain Muslims were understandably upset? How were they supposed to condemn attacks BEFORE they happened?

Curse you, Obama Administration, for not assuming that those damn Muslims would attack! Of course they will attack, every Muslim is a dirty Terrorist, there is do gradation at all!!!!

ETA: Now if you will excuse me, I must drink beer and watch John Stewart, so I can laugh again

Edited, Sep 13th 2012 9:40pm by stupidmonkey
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#209 Sep 13 2012 at 11:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Secondly, let's stop playing games with tense. Since all the events at the time were past tense, Romney's statement is past tense. But two things which both occurred in the past did not necessarily happen at the same time. You (and a lot of other people apparently) are interpreting Romney's statement that "It's disgraceful that the Obama Administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.” as though the administration sympathized with the attacks themselves. But his statement doesn't say that. It simply says that they sympathized (past tense) with those who waged the attacks (also past tense).


Is it painful to willfully twist the truth around so much? Because it's hilarious to watch you try.
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#210 Sep 13 2012 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji's now demonstrated (as he's done in the past) that he'll willfully misunderstand the very tenets of English in order to serve his Republican overlords. I think, had he the power, he'd try to bend the fabric of space and time to do so, too. I really don't think that there's a line at which he stops and acknowledges their failings, however trivial.

It's fucking scary.

Edited, Sep 14th 2012 1:24am by Eske
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#211 Sep 14 2012 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Those +1's gotta come somehow


Im not sure I follow....
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#212 Sep 14 2012 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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I know this isn't Romney and all that but Replublicans are Replublicans when you north of 40.

http://news.yahoo.com/sen-jon-kyl-us-embassy-response-blaming-rape-031347151--abc-news-politics.html

Quote:
Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill, the 70-year old, retiring senator said:
"It's like the judge telling the woman who got raped, 'You asked for it because of the way you dressed.' OK? That's the same thing. 'Well, America, you should be the ones to apologize, you should have known this would happen, you should have done - what I don't know - but it's your fault that it happened.' You know, for a member of our State Department to put out a statement like that, it had to be cleared by somebody. They don't just do that in the spur of the moment."
Kyl likely referred to criticism by U.S. diplomats in Egypt of a U.S.-produced film that reportedly features a negative depiction of Islam's prophet, Muhammed. The film was cited later during the attack on the U.S. embassy in Egypt.



I only have one question though, are we talking a legitimate rape victim here?
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#213 Sep 14 2012 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know this isn't Romney and all that but Replublicans are Replublicans when you north of 40.

http://news.yahoo.com/sen-jon-kyl-us-embassy-response-blaming-rape-031347151--abc-news-politics.html

Quote:
Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill, the 70-year old, retiring senator said:
"It's like the judge telling the woman who got raped, 'You asked for it because of the way you dressed.' OK? That's the same thing. 'Well, America, you should be the ones to apologize, you should have known this would happen, you should have done - what I don't know - but it's your fault that it happened.' You know, for a member of our State Department to put out a statement like that, it had to be cleared by somebody. They don't just do that in the spur of the moment."
Kyl likely referred to criticism by U.S. diplomats in Egypt of a U.S.-produced film that reportedly features a negative depiction of Islam's prophet, Muhammed. The film was cited later during the attack on the U.S. embassy in Egypt.



I only have one question though, are we talking a legitimate rape victim here?


Cant' be, or we would have had ways to shut down the attack before it happened.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#214 Sep 14 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I only have one question though, are we talking a legitimate rape victim here?


Bruises?
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#215 Sep 14 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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America asked for it because we're so gosh darn awesome.
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#216 Sep 14 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Looks like we've picked up Montreal and Toronto in meatamerica.
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#217 Sep 14 2012 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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http://news.yahoo.com/gop-elector-wont-vote-romney-resigns-074113894--election.html

Quote:
AMES, Iowa (AP) — A Republican appointed to the Electoral College, Melinda Wadsley was expected to cast her vote for Mitt Romney if he won the state of Iowa in the presidential election.
Wadsley decided Thursday she couldn't in good conscience vote for Romney — she had backed Ron Paul during the GOP primary — and resigned to allow the Iowa GOP to choose someone else for that duty.


Does this happen often?
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#218 Sep 14 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, she dropped out so they'll replace her with someone loyal to Romney.

A few have given hints that they'd be "Faithless electors" -- people who cast a vote for someone besides their party's nominee -- to protest Republican party mechanizations against Ron Paul. It wouldn't be unprecedented although I wouldn't expect it to turn an election either [read: zero chance]. Party discipline is tighter than that and you don't typically get to be an elector unless you're a proven loyalist.

Looking at Wiki, the last faithless elector vote that doesn't look like an error was a DC elector casting "no vote" in 2000 as a protest regarding DC's status and the last time someone intentionally cast a faithless ballot for an actual candidate was 1976 when someone voted for Reagan over Ford.

Edited, Sep 14th 2012 10:52am by Jophiel
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#219 Sep 14 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Back to #RomneyShambles, I went back to Jim Wright's Stonekettle Station Blog to see what he had to say about how Romney dropped the ball on the Embassy attacks. Please read and then share if you're on Facebook. war-by-other-means

If you still believe Romney's narrative after Jim's clearly written essay, try taking off the blinders and read again.
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#220 Sep 14 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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So, this happened.

Quote:
10:40 AM EDT: In an interview with “Good Morning America’s” George Stephanopoulos, Mitt Romney was asked: “Is $100,000 middle income?” “Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less,” Romney replied.


Smiley: dubious

PS: Before gbaji comes in here and says "well, see, he said '$250,000 and less', so it's correct", the actual exchange is:

GS: Is $100,000 middle income?
MR: Well, no, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less.

Edited, Sep 14th 2012 12:58pm by Eske
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#221 Sep 14 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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To be fair, Democratic legislation has targetted that $250k number as well. Obama targetted it as the cut-off for something in 2008 (can't remember what), and it's the targetted cut-off for where they want the Bush tax cuts extended/expired. Not this means that the Democrats think $250k is middle class, but they apparently feel it includes too many voters to alienate.

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#222 Sep 14 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:

To be fair, Democratic legislation has targetted that $250k number as well. Obama targetted it as the cut-off for something in 2008 (can't remember what), and it's the targetted cut-off for where they want the Bush tax cuts extended/expired. Not this means that the Democrats think $250k is middle class, but they apparently feel it includes too many voters to alienate.



That's fine by me. I've got much less of a bone to pick with saying that 250k is middle class than with saying that 100k isn't, myself.
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#223 Sep 14 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
trickybeck wrote:

To be fair, Democratic legislation has targetted that $250k number as well. Obama targetted it as the cut-off for something in 2008 (can't remember what), and it's the targetted cut-off for where they want the Bush tax cuts extended/expired. Not this means that the Democrats think $250k is middle class, but they apparently feel it includes too many voters to alienate.



That's fine by me. I've got much less of a bone to pick with saying that 250k is middle class than with saying that 100k isn't, myself.


The way I understood the dems position is that anyone above the poverty line and below the 250K mark was considered middle class earners. 250K seems like an arbitrary number, but it is essentially the mid-point for the second highest tax level, and is the last tax level that has an upper cap.

I don't think I have ever heard any politician strictly define the middle class into such a number. This is a very narrow minded approach, and considering that the average earnings in the US are someplace around 80K id wager that middle class starts there and tapers off in either direction.

I don't know who Romney has feeding him lines but it almost seems as if they want him to alienate the majority of the nation. I make about 45K/yr in Canada and I am considered middle class, if I were to be making 200K+ id be one of those poor rich people.
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#224 Sep 14 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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According to the table on wikipedia (based on 2004 data), I'm somwhere near the 80th percentile. Those in the 95th percentile make nearly double that, but still ~$50k short of $200k a year. I'd be hard pressed to agree that any household making $200k is middle class.

Edited, Sep 14th 2012 12:44pm by BrownDuck
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#225 Sep 14 2012 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
trickybeck wrote:

To be fair, Democratic legislation has targetted that $250k number as well. Obama targetted it as the cut-off for something in 2008 (can't remember what), and it's the targetted cut-off for where they want the Bush tax cuts extended/expired. Not this means that the Democrats think $250k is middle class, but they apparently feel it includes too many voters to alienate.



That's fine by me. I've got much less of a bone to pick with saying that 250k is middle class than with saying that 100k isn't, myself.

I don't think that's what Romney was saying. Romney's answer about the cut-off obviously doesn't quite match what the question was, but I'm sure he thinks $100k (household I assume?) is middle class.

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#226 Sep 14 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
trickybeck wrote:

To be fair, Democratic legislation has targetted that $250k number as well. Obama targetted it as the cut-off for something in 2008 (can't remember what), and it's the targetted cut-off for where they want the Bush tax cuts extended/expired. Not this means that the Democrats think $250k is middle class, but they apparently feel it includes too many voters to alienate.



That's fine by me. I've got much less of a bone to pick with saying that 250k is middle class than with saying that 100k isn't, myself.

I don't think that's what Romney was saying. Romney's answer about the cut-off obviously doesn't quite match what the question was, but I'm sure he thinks $100k (household I assume?) is middle class.


I don't quite follow. He very literally said that 100k isn't middle class.

I mean, does he actually believe that? Probably not. But it's just one of those gaffes that I couldn't see a person of more modest means making, for whatever reason.
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#227 Sep 14 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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His answer is meaningless and contradictory.
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#228 Sep 14 2012 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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His answer is meaningless and contradictory.

The best part is that you don't even need to ask "which answer?" when reading this!
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#229 Sep 14 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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#230 Sep 14 2012 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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eske wrote:
trickybeck wrote:

I don't think that's what Romney was saying. Romney's answer about the cut-off obviously doesn't quite match what the question was, but I'm sure he thinks $100k (household I assume?) is middle class.


I don't quite follow. He very literally said that 100k isn't middle class.

I mean, does he actually believe that? Probably not. But it's just one of those gaffes that I couldn't see a person of more modest means making, for whatever reason.

He "very literally said it," and then in the next sentence he said that middle class was $250k or less, thus giving a more precise answer. I think you're making a big deal out of 2 seconds of misspeaking.
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#231 Sep 14 2012 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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My mother's definition of middle class was this: Being able to go out to a store and spend a hundred dollars on new clothes, and not having to worry about how you were going to eat next week because of it.

I think it's a fairly practical definition.
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#232 Sep 14 2012 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
He "very literally said it," and then in the next sentence he said that middle class was $250k or less, thus giving a more precise answer. I think you're making a big deal out of 2 seconds of misspeaking.


Seems like a nonsensical way of making that point. I mean, the two statements (100k isn't middle class, and middle class is 250k and less) are contradictory, so the second can't be "a more precise answer".

I gather that you're saying that the intention was to say something like "No, 100k isn't middle class, because middle class is actually everything up to 250k, including 100k"? It's possible, but that just strikes me as an odd error of speech.

Either way, it's a gaffe, which is the entire reason that I linked it. And I do think that there's a reason that Romney's prone to such gaffes.

That, right there, was the sum of my point, which I've now beleaguered. Hardly "making a big deal out of it".
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#233 Sep 14 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Being able to go out to a store and spend a hundred dollars on new clothes, and not having to worry about how you were going to eat next week because of it.

Daily? Smiley: grin
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#234 Sep 14 2012 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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If I made a 200k a year I could live like a king AND pay off my house, in a year. I could retire in 5-6 years instead of 35..

I expect he understands that 100k is middle class and was just trying to correct the question to the range he considers middle class to top out at but I don't think he actually understands that 200-250k isn't what common people live on and he certainly has absolutely no clue what living on common people's income entails.
#235 Sep 14 2012 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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To be fair, 250K is upper middle class in New York City.

Everywhere else, though... For example, in Palin's "Real America" 250K will put you in the top 1% of your city, and possibly your state.
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#236 Sep 14 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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60-250k (typically ~100k) for a family is roughly the bound on middle class. less than that, is typically considered lower class.

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#237 Sep 14 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
60-250k (typically ~100k) for a family is roughly the bound on middle class. less than that, is typically considered lower class.




w00t, I'm BLC!!! (Borderline Lower Class)

Gonna get T-shirts made!
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#238 Sep 14 2012 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
60-250k (typically ~100k) for a family is roughly the bound on middle class. less than that, is typically considered lower class.



Hell, by that standard we're lower class. I think where you live plays a huge role in it, because of the wild variances in cost of living. Our brand new 3 bedroom starter house came with a price tag of $110K. Our mortgage on it is lower than our rent was in a two bedroom apartment. We own our two gently used cars outright, go on big vacations twice a year, and only blink if the price tag of something is over two hundred dollars. And yet, we make just under 60K a year between the two of us... (that will change once I finish graduate school and go back to work full time at a much higher pay grade.)

Also, my husband is the lowest paid professor in the entire state of Georgia. Cheap bastards. Smiley: bah
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#239 Sep 14 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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What's he a professor of, unprotected sex?
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#240 Sep 14 2012 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
What's he a professor of, unprotected sex?


Don't make fun of the distinguished Dr. Animalhouse. He may be an adjunct, but he's good at what he does.
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#241 Sep 15 2012 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
What's he a professor of, unprotected sex?


Education. Georgia thinks so little of its teachers, and those who teach the teachers...
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#242 Sep 15 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:

To be fair, Democratic legislation has targetted that $250k number as well. Obama targetted it as the cut-off for something in 2008 (can't remember what), and it's the targetted cut-off for where they want the Bush tax cuts extended/expired. Not this means that the Democrats think $250k is middle class, but they apparently feel it includes too many voters to alienate.



Obama's statement pretty clearly defined that as household income. Romney may have intended the same. Perhaps his processor was dusty or something.

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#243 Sep 16 2012 at 5:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Relevant to the 250k discussion.

Also, showing once more than Republicans live in a magical fairy land.
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#244 Sep 16 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Wasn't George Bush Sr the one who coined the phrase "voodoo economics" ?
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#245 Sep 16 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Default
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If any taxes should be cut it should be Corporate Taxes. Lower taxes attract more work, more jobs, and more jobs mean more revenue from personal Income taxes and applicable sales taxes. Canada's tax rate for example is 11-15%, with provincal averages of 4-12%. So basically if your company makes more than 50K in a year you pay more percentage in tax than say Walmart Canada (in the US).

The only crappy thing is, that there is no real protection to the government doing this, at least from an investment standpoint, the CEO's can always just increase their bonuses by the differential, instead of hiring a few hundred people each year.
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#246 Sep 16 2012 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I might support cutting taxes for companies that don't outsource work.
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#247 Sep 16 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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I may be wrong but I recall reading an article about how Canada has been lowering corporate taxes for the past couple of years yet their economy is not recovering at a higher rate than the US economy.
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#248 Sep 16 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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To be fair, their economy didn't take the same level of hit that ours did in the U. S. - at least in part because of their stricter banking regulations.

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#249 Sep 16 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I may be wrong but I recall reading an article about how Canada has been lowering corporate taxes for the past couple of years yet their economy is not recovering at a higher rate than the US economy.


For 2-3 years following the economic crisis, Canada's economy was growing well, it was leading the G8 economies for a while. The US is now the fastest growing economy in the G8. Which is good because my country was burning out carrying the load of NAFTA. In the end without the US economy in full charge Canada can not maintain full charge. Mostly because our dollar rises quickly and the US becomes cheaper to deal with.

Ideally the Canuck dollar would sit around 80-90 cents but that will take another 5-10 years of Obamanomics to hit, then again if they went back to Reaganomics like the GOP wants, then both our countries will likely both stagnate. Meaning the NA economy will be unable to compete.

So please vote for Obama, us Canucks need your economy moving forward, not stuck in neutral, or worse reverse.
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#250 Sep 16 2012 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's it, I'm voting Obama, for the good of Canada's economy!
#251 Sep 17 2012 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
So please vote for Obama, us Canucks need your economy moving forward, not stuck in neutral, or worse reverse.
Is there even a chance Obama won't win at this point? I mean really, we surely haven't hit the point where we need Canada to beg us to vote Obama.
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