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Colorado Shooting and...Follow

#1 Jul 20 2012 at 7:20 PM Rating: Unrated
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Once again liberals prove they have no shame or class.


Unless you live under a rock (or if you're like lolgaxe and never leave your basement apartment) you have probably heard already that at the midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" a mass shooting took place. link


Literally hours after this horrific event took place liberals (who never miss a chance for cheap political points) once again showed who they are. Link


With everything mentioned in the above link the thing I find most egregious was ABC news who actually tried to hint the Tea Party maybe involved because they found a name on a tea party list that matched the shooters name (apparently ABC news checks Tea Party lists whenever a tragedy happens) and without any proof that these 2 people were the same person (they weren't) they reported it as a possible link on a national broadcast.


I am embarrassed for you.


#2 Jul 20 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guy on the news makes error and the retracts it!

Random people you've never heard of tweet!

Actor says thing!

Good thing we're focusing on that instead of on the horror and tragedy of the situation itself. Stay classy, ThiefX.
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#3 Jul 20 2012 at 7:38 PM Rating: Good
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Rush? Tea Party? Guns?

The real enemy here in Disney for hiring the guy to ruin Dark Knight's opening weekend to take the threat away from Avenger's records!
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#4 Jul 20 2012 at 7:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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And, with that said...
Max Read wrote:
It hasn't even been 24 hours since a gunman opened fire on a crowded movie theater in Colorado and you can already predict the entire, familiar scene: the days and days of arguments about gun control, about mental health treatment access, about violence in movies and television. And, of course, the angry accusations that one person or another is "politicizing tragedy," unquestionably the worst sin in post-tragedy rhetoric.

This is stupid. There is no such thing as "politicizing" tragedy. James Holmes did not materialize in a movie theater in Aurora this morning, free of any relationship to law and authority and the structures of power in this country; nor did he exit those relationships and structures by murdering 12 people and injuring several dozen more. Before he entered the theater, he purchased guns, whether legally or illegally, under a framework of laws and regulations governed and negotiated by politics; in the parking lot outside, he was arrested by a police force whose salaries, equipment, tactics and rights were shaped and determined by politics. Holmes' ability to seek, or to not seek, mental health care; the government's ability, or inability, to lock up persons deemed unstable — these are things decided and directed by politics. You cannot "politicize" a tragedy because the tragedy is already political. When you talk about the tragedy you're already talking about politics.

None of which is to say that we should stop calling stupid people stupid. ABC's Brian Ross idiotically attempted to connect Holmes to the Tea Party; Breitbart's Joel Pollak incompetently sought to show that Holmes was a registered Democrat. They both failed not because they "politicized" the tragedy but because they're both exceptionally bad at their jobs. Even if they'd been right about Holmes' party affiliation, the failure wouldn't lie in writing about politics in connection with the massacre but doing so in a superficial, primitive way. They need to be argued against, not hushed up.

Because ultimately, as Dave Weigel and Adam Serwer point out, huge national tragedies are often the only time these issues are brought close enough to the surface that this conversation and negotiation — this politicking — can occur. And often that's the only way things will change. Forbidding the "politicization" of tragedy simply ensures that it will happen again.
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#5 Jul 20 2012 at 7:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
Literally hours after this horrific event took place conservatives (who never miss a chance for cheap political points) once again showed who they are. Link
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#6 Jul 20 2012 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to get out in front of blaming this event on Ann Romney. You heard it here first.
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#7 Jul 20 2012 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, I'm kind of wondering about something; I saw nothing from this dude the entire time gbaji was gone, and then, within a day or two of gbaji coming back, so does this guy. Is this some sort of in joke I'm just not privy to? Is it some really funny coincidence? Smiley: confused
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#8 Jul 20 2012 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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The first thing that struck me, after the obvious visceral reaction to mass murder, was that his mother apparently was unsurprised at his involvement. His parents are, I suppose predictably, being described as good people. I wonder what she knew about her son that made her so certain that he would do something about this.

Jeffrey Dahmer's father wrote a book about raising his son and having uneasy intimations about what he might be. No parent wants to think their kid is a monster. And when the unthinkable happens, and the scapegoating begins... well. I would not want to be in their spot right now, or ever again.
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#9 Jul 20 2012 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lolgaxe's story wrote:
Blogger Joel B. Pollack, writing for the right wing blog network, reported early Friday that he had obtained voter registration records that he believed belonged to Holmes and which placed the 25-year Holmes in the Democratic Party. Five hours later, Pollack updated his story to note that his discovery was incorrect; the 24-year old Holmes in question, he wrote, may not even be registered to vote.

I'm shocked Breitbart News would retract this at all. Surely there was some grainy Youtube footage they could edit and fake it make it look like the guy was a Democrat.
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#10 Jul 20 2012 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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ThiefX wrote:


Way to hate, hater.
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#11 Jul 20 2012 at 9:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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What do you think the name of Michael Moore's film will be? Sailing for Aurora? Bruce Wayne's World?
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#12 Jul 20 2012 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here we go...
Quote:
"He spent much of his time immersed in the computer, often participating in role-playing online games..."

I was wondering how long it would take.
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#13 Jul 20 2012 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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Because ultimately, as Dave Weigel and Adam Serwer point out, huge national tragedies are often the only time these issues are brought close enough to the surface that this conversation and negotiation — this politicking — can occur. And often that's the only way things will change. Forbidding the "politicization" of tragedy simply ensures that it will happen again.


While I agree with this, the Conservative retort to these mass shootings tends to be "Let's wait until the emotions die down before we talk about legislation."

Which in reality means lets wait until the outrage dies down a bit, a Kardashian does something stupid, people forget, & nothing happens. Remember the flack about high capacity rounds after Giffords got shot? I wonder what happened? Oh ya, nothing.

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#14 Jul 21 2012 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
A terrible tragedy, and it's shameful that anyone from any political background would use it to further their interests, regardless of whether they're republican or Democrat or what have you.

By making a political issue thread out of this, you're no better than the people you're pointing out, ThiefX. I suppose it's true that hypocrisy is rampant among those who actually choose a specific political affiliation.
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I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#15 Jul 21 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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Kastigir wrote:
Here we go...
Quote:
"He spent much of his time immersed in the computer, often participating in role-playing online games..."

I was wondering how long it would take.


I think it was obvious from the get-go that the young man was a "roleplayer". He really really really wanted to be the f*cking Joker. Immediately I wondered who it might be from Alla. The shooter's family lives in San Diego and he had Tennessee license plates, so I think this further validates the theory that varus and gbaji are the same person.
#16 Jul 21 2012 at 7:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dude made a crappy Joker. Where was the laughing gas, bad puns, and clown themed equipment?
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#17 Jul 21 2012 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kastigir wrote:
Here we go...
Quote:
"He spent much of his time immersed in the computer, often participating in role-playing online games..."

I was wondering how long it would take.



Oh, conspiralicious! I liked this part:

Quote:
If you start to look at the really big picture here, the obvious question arises: How does an unemployed medical student afford all the complex weapons gear, bomb-making gear, "flammable" booby trap devices, ammunition, multiple magazines, bullet-proof vest, groin protection, ballistic helmet, SWAT uniform and all the rest of it?



Student loans?

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#18 Jul 21 2012 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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A Pell Grant would cover the weapons and ammo by itself.
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#19 Jul 21 2012 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, conspiralicious! I liked this part:
Quote:
If you start to look at the really big picture here, the obvious question arises: How does an unemployed medical student afford all the complex weapons gear, bomb-making gear, "flammable" booby trap devices, ammunition, multiple magazines, bullet-proof vest, groin protection, ballistic helmet, SWAT uniform and all the rest of it?

Student loans?

What if it was the wife of a very wealthy businessman turned politician looking to steer the conversation away from a phonetic similarity between a major character in the film and the company the businessman was head of? Could such a wife perhaps finance these materials?
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#20 Jul 21 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Could such a wife perhaps finance these materials?


Only if she were to cut into her fund for horse dancing...
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#21 Jul 21 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.

The dissonance is staggering.
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#22 Jul 21 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.

The dissonance is staggering.


I don't quite understand your argument.
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#23 Jul 21 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kastigir's article wrote:
There is already conjecture that James Holmes may have been involved in mind-altering neuroscience research

Driven insane by the Liberal Academic Establishment!
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#24 Jul 21 2012 at 10:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.

The dissonance is staggering.


I don't quite understand your argument.

Nor do I. You see instances all the time where law-abiding, conceal carry holders foil crimes all the time.
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#25 Jul 21 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Kastigir wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.

The dissonance is staggering.


I don't quite understand your argument.

Nor do I. You see instances all the time where law-abiding, conceal carry holders foil crimes all the time.



In dark, crowded theaters with smoke bombs, panicked people and an armored opponent. Yep, all the time.
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#26 Jul 21 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Kastigir wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.

The dissonance is staggering.


I don't quite understand your argument.

Nor do I. You see instances all the time where law-abiding, conceal carry holders foil crimes all the time.



In dark, crowded theaters with smoke bombs, panicked people and an armored opponent. Yep, all the time.

One occurrence does not a trend make.
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#27 Jul 21 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Panicked civilians with firearms always make situations like that better. How foolish of me to think otherwise!
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#28 Jul 21 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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And here we go.

#29 Jul 21 2012 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Panicked civilians with firearms always make situations like that better. How foolish of me to think otherwise!


The vast majority of people who obtain a concealed carry permit go through enough training that they're one of the few people who aren't panicked in a situation like that.
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#30 Jul 21 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Sure thing Smiley: thumbsup
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#31 Jul 21 2012 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Panicked civilians with firearms always make situations like that better. How foolish of me to think otherwise!


The vast majority of people who obtain a concealed carry permit go through enough training that they're one of the few people who aren't panicked in a situation like that.
Got any data to confirm this or are you just talking out of your ass?
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#32 Jul 21 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Panicked civilians with firearms always make situations like that better. How foolish of me to think otherwise!


The vast majority of people who obtain a concealed carry permit go through enough training that they're one of the few people who aren't panicked in a situation like that.


A guy I work with just got his concealed carry permit in Michigan a year ago. Honestly, from what he explained, the process seemed much like a joke. Like Boater's Safety courses for 16 year old's to get their boat operating license.
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#33 Jul 21 2012 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.

Someone always makes that argument. From what I understand (which is all second hand and coming from this story), Colorado has some pretty lax laws in this regard. Apparently CO also has unrestricted open carry laws. I had heard someone say earlier that a patron could have brought a shotgun or rifle into the theater if they wanted, so I guess that's where that comes from.

According to this site, your training just needs to be a handgun training class within the last decade. Count me doubtful that that qualifies someone to stay cool and collected in this situation. Of course, this guy was dressed to be shot at and opened his attack with a gas canister so I rather doubt another gun going off in a crowded panicked theater would have helped things.

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 12:39pm by Jophiel
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#34 Jul 21 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Panicked civilians with firearms always make situations like that better. How foolish of me to think otherwise!


The vast majority of people who obtain a concealed carry permit go through enough training that they're one of the few people who aren't panicked in a situation like that.


A guy I work with just got his concealed carry permit in Michigan a year ago. Honestly, from what he explained, the process seemed much like a joke. Like Boater's Safety courses for 16 year old's to get their boat operating license.


I suppose the process for getting a concealed carry permit is different in every state. I've never gotten a boating license so I can't compare it to that. The class here goes into more than just gun safety, but I'm having a problem thinking of what to compare it to.
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#35 Jul 21 2012 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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So apparently the trailer for "Gangster Squad" was supposed to be pulled from "Dark Knight Rises." There's a scene where a bunch of gangsters shoot through a movie screen and open fire on a room full of movie-goers.

When The Man and I went to see Dark Knight last night, that trailer was shown. I didn't know it was supposed to be pulled, my husband told me when it started.

I understand why they wanted it pulled... but I'm not sure that it matters. Seeing that trailer didn't make me writhe with disgust at the theater for showing it. It didn't make me burst into tears for the people who had been killed. It didn't make me hate Warner Brothers. It didn't make me storm out of the movie. Had my husband not mentioned that it was supposed to be pulled, I probably wouldn't have really connected the two, honestly.

I was curious what other people here thought about that. Do you think that trailer should've been pulled, and our theater (who apparently didn't get the memo way out here in the Pacific) is horrible for showing it?
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#36 Jul 21 2012 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can see where some people might find it tacky. It's just a meaningless sensitivity move, I think.

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#37 Jul 21 2012 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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Seems like an obvious thing to do in and around Denver or wherever else people may know any of the victims personally. Beyond that it seems like a mostly politically correct thing to do and not a particularly big deal.
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#38 Jul 21 2012 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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Most people who conceal/open carry train regularly, they aren't some random person who decided to pick up a gun because it makes them cool.

Lets say the person is panicked and starts randomly shooting a handgun. How much more damage is it going to cause than someone with a 100 round drum attached to an assault rifle peppering a packed theater? Best case he gets a lucky shot and ends it, more probable would be him drawing the gunman's fire, which would stop him from spraying the entire @#%^ing theater.


And for the record, my sister was good friends with one of the Navy guys who didn't make it out of that theater, so @#%^ you piece of sh*t liberals for turning this into a damn gun control talking point.
#39 Jul 21 2012 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Best case he gets a lucky shot and ends it, more probable would be him drawing the gunman's fire, which would stop him from spraying the entire @#%^ing theater.
That wouldn't be a lucky shot. That would be a miracle. It doesn't matter how calm you are, you're still in a theater with hundreds of other people panicking; Running and screaming and bumping into each other and into you. You're also in an extremely dark room with tear gas in the air. Most likely not enough to incapacitate you, but certainly enough to irritate your eyes and skin. And your target, in that dark room, is wearing dark clothes. Not a huge problem in a vacuum because the gun muzzle certainly is bright enough, but couple it with the other factors and the fact that he's gotta shoot first before you can get a bead on him and hope you can calculate well enough to hit him. Also most people don't really carry heavy duty pistols when they have a concealed carry permit, which means they're not exactly known for their dropping power. Here's some hindsight as well: The gunman was apparently wearing a ballistic vest and helmet.

I'm sorry for your sister but get your head out of your ass if you think that someone carrying in that theater would have magically ended the rampage. The most likely outcome would have been he'd have at best injured and panicked the gunman into spraying the entire fucking theater even more.
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#40 Jul 21 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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And for the record, my sister was good friends with one of the Navy guys who didn't make it out of that theater, so @#%^ you piece of sh*t liberals for turning this into a damn gun control talking point..


Fact: Lower capacity magazines would have lowered the casualty count.
Fact: The expiration of the Assault Weapons ban in 2004 is the only reason he could buy an AR-15 assault rifle.
Fact: Liberals did nothing about either of the above after Giffords was shot, no need to worry they might do something now.
Fact: You are a turd.
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#41 Jul 21 2012 at 7:32 PM Rating: Default
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From what I've seen/heard/been told, the gas was thrown in the front of the theater, right in front of the screen. The gunman left then came in a side door next to the screen. Having him between the gas and the projector would have made a very nice silhouette to shoot at. And he was spraying the AK "like a sprinkler" is the quote reported. 100 round drum, 70 hit, some multiple times. I didn't hear about the shotgun or Glock being fired, only that he had them. So his hit rate was probably in the range of 90+%. Any distraction, even a 9mm to the vest, may have been enough of a distraction to save lives.
#42 Jul 21 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
And for the record, my sister was good friends with one of the Navy guys who didn't make it out of that theater, so @#%^ you piece of sh*t liberals for turning this into a damn gun control talking point..


Fact: Lower capacity magazines would have lowered the casualty count.
Fact: The expiration of the Assault Weapons ban in 2004 is the only reason he could buy an AR-15 assault rifle.
Fact: Liberals did nothing about either of the above after Giffords was shot, no need to worry they might do something now.
Fact: You are a turd.


I agree that lower capacity mags and heavy restrictions should be placed on assault rifles, but banning guns in general will only change the places people buy them from. People run homemade subs right up to our shores and unload drugs by the ton, you think weapons won't be added to the shipments?

And I'm less annoyed about the gun control talk than I am about the fact that it's being turned political less than 24 hours after the fact, before the families of the dead were even notified.
#43 Jul 21 2012 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Panicked civilians with firearms always make situations like that better. How foolish of me to think otherwise!


The vast majority of people who obtain a concealed carry permit go through enough training that they're one of the few people who aren't panicked in a situation like that.

I know for a fact that if I went through gun training and got a permit, I would still panic and be totally useless. I am a wimp when it comes to things like this. Having a gun on me wouldn't have helped anyone. The only way I *might* ever be able to shoot a gun and have it be a useful gesture is if someone broke into my house and a member of my family was in danger.
#44Almalieque, Posted: Jul 21 2012 at 9:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The problem with that is that leads into an array of "what if's" that don't end.
#45 Jul 21 2012 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
I've seen someone make the argument recently that if more people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, someone else at the theatre would have shot him before he killed a bunch of people.
Raolan wrote:
And for the record, my sister was good friends with one of the Navy guys who didn't make it out of that theater, so @#%^ you piece of sh*t liberals for turning this into a damn gun control talking point.

Well, this certainly explains why nothing ever happens on the gun laws front. People like you are more worried about pointing fingers than anything else. Great job!
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#46 Jul 21 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
The problem with that is that leads into an array of "what if's" that don't end.

Sure. Perhaps we should look at the event as it happened than a bunch of "Oh, if only a super-trained-and-ready-concealed-carry-hero was there to save the day" scenarios.

As it actually happened, in a state with fairly lax concealed carry laws and extremely lax open carry laws, no one pulled out a gun and shot down this maniac.
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#47 Jul 21 2012 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
Fun Fact: Assault Weapons are Permanently banned in the state of Massachusetts.

Guess which Presidential candidate who signed that into law? Hint: Not the black guy.
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#48Almalieque, Posted: Jul 21 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's what I mean. I agree with you. To argue that a "superhero" could have saved the day can just as easily be countered with "what if the superhero were shot and killed first"? Any "end" wouldn't be in favor of guns anyway, so it's silly to argue that point.
#49 Jul 21 2012 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
The problem with that is that leads into an array of "what if's" that don't end.

Sure. Perhaps we should look at the event as it happened than a bunch of "Oh, if only a super-trained-and-ready-concealed-carry-hero was there to save the day" scenarios.

As it actually happened, in a state with fairly lax concealed carry laws and extremely lax open carry laws, no one pulled out a gun and shot down this maniac.

And from what little bit I have heard about the theater in question, it was a "gun-free" zone. So a law-abiding citizen wouldn't have carried anyway.
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#50 Jul 22 2012 at 12:55 AM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
I agree that lower capacity mags and heavy restrictions should be placed on assault rifles
I'm just baffled that it is at all possible for anyone to buy an assault rifle. The only @#%^ing thing it's made to do is shoot people, let's keep that with the military whose job includes shooting people when necessary. It's not a weapon for hunting nor is it any good at defending your home with unless you're expecting the zombie apocalypse to happen anytime now.
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#51 Jul 22 2012 at 4:13 AM Rating: Good
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How lax or strict the conceal carry laws are in Colorado is a moot point, as the guy didn't carry the weapons into the theatre normally. He exited through the emergency exit, went to his car, geared up and came back in. Whether someone else with a concealed carry permit and weapon could have stopped him is debatable. Sorry, I don't think all that uber training you get in that class is enough, as others have said it's not all that involved. Mostly it's just training about the particulars of where you can and can't carry a concealed weapon. I know, I looked into it and nearly signed up for a class last year.

Maybe some of the guys I've met at local gun ranges that participate a lot in shooting competitions and the like might be more likely to remain calm in that situation. Still, as others have said, between the panicked masses, tear gas, and full body armor of the scumbag, I'm not all that sure it would have helped. We can speculate all we want, but the fact is no one in there was equipped to do so anyway.

I saw a link to the Onion the other day that was pretty accurate as to how it will all play out.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/sadly-nation-knows-exactly-how-colorado-shootings,28857/

While satire, it's pretty spot on really.
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