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Well... holy wow. Healthcare Bill UpheldFollow

#1 Jun 28 2012 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Against conventional wisdom following the hearings themselves, the SCotUS upheld the health care bill in its entirety.

Edit: I guess the legal folks are still sifting through the Medicaid parts of the suit and some of it may or may not be struck. The mandate was upheld though.

Edited, Jun 28th 2012 9:35am by Jophiel
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#2 Jun 28 2012 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Looks like its going to be a busy weekend with Tea Party protests.
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#3 Jun 28 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Politico wrote:
The Supreme Court upheld the health care law’s individual mandate Thursday, ruling that Congress did not overstep its power by requiring nearly all Americans to buy health insurance.

Chief Justice John Roberts joined with the court’s four liberal justices in the ruling, which says Congress had the authority for the mandate under Congress’s taxing power.

The ruling is a surprise victory for the Obama administration, which faced tough questions from the court during the oral arguments in March.

I don't believe for a moment that Roberts actually sided with the law. I said form the start that, if he saw Kennedy going with the liberal side, he'd also go along because then he could write the majority opinion and strictly limit the scope of the ruling to the healthcare bill. I haven't read the ruling yet but I'm still sure that's the case. But, hey, maybe he'll show me wrong.
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#4 Jun 28 2012 at 8:35 AM Rating: Default
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This shall be interesting.. FOX news shall be even more interesting... lol
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#5 Jun 28 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, hey, I'm eating my words already. Om nom nom nom...

Political Wire wrote:
...authored by Chief Justice John Roberts and joined in by Justices Elena Kagan, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor.

No Kennedy in that list. Roberts was the "swing" vote.
Wonk Wire wrote:
The Supreme Court has upheld President Obama’s health care reform law in its entirety. Continue to check this post for up-to-the-minute information on the opinion and some of the initial analysis, and post your thoughts in the comments.

SCOTUSblog is reporting that the individual mandate has been upheld as a constitutional “tax,” with Chief Justice Roberts siding with the Court’s four liberal Justices in a 5 to 4 decision. Ezra Klein included this as the fourth way the Court could “split the difference” in its ruling, finding that the Commerce Clause is not sufficient for the mandate to be held constitutional.

The provisions expanding Medicaid have been limited, but remain largely intact, with the Court ruling that the federal government cannot withhold the funds that the states would have received without the law’s expansion.

Tom Goldstein of SCOTUSblog’s bottom line: “the entire ACA is upheld, with the exception that the federal government’s power to terminate states’ Medicaid funds is narrowly read.”

Justice Kennedy’s dissent indicates that the four Justices in the minority wanted to invalidate the entire law.


Edited, Jun 28th 2012 9:40am by Jophiel
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#6 Jun 28 2012 at 8:38 AM Rating: Excellent
From what I'm hearing from news outlets, the White House's team got this through by arguing that the mandate was a tax, not a requirement for somebody to buy healthcare. Which makes sense, as the Constitution grants Congress the almost unlimited power to tax the public.
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#7 Jun 28 2012 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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In other news, the Stolen Valor law criminalizing lying about your military service/awards was struck down as unconstitutional. Also, no one will give a shit about the Holder contempt vote scheduled for today.
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#8 Jun 28 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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No Scalia narrative dissent :(.

Welcome to the dark side, Chief Roberts. Good to have a 50 year old liberal Chief Justice....
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#9 Jun 28 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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This shall be interesting.. FOX news shall be even more interesting... lol


This. Smiley: lol

I'm really surprised by Roberts here as well, that was unexpected. Well I suppose this makes "repeal Obamacare" a bigger election issue now.
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#10 Jun 28 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Against conventional wisdom following the hearings themselves, the SCotUS upheld the health care bill in its entirety.

Edit: I guess the legal folks are still sifting through the Medicaid parts of the suit and some of it may or may not be struck. The mandate was upheld though.

Edited, Jun 28th 2012 9:35am by Jophiel

...and I heard it here first. Smiley: smile

Despite its lack of direct impact on me, I'm oddly thrilled about this.

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#11 Jun 28 2012 at 8:52 AM Rating: Default
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
From what I'm hearing from news outlets, the White House's team got this through by arguing that the mandate was a tax, not a requirement for somebody to buy healthcare. Which makes sense, as the Constitution grants Congress the almost unlimited power to tax the public.


Which apparently is ironic as President Obama argued that it wasn't a tax, but it being a tax is what upheld it....

Jophiel wrote:
In other news, the Stolen Valor law criminalizing lying about your military service/awards was struck down as unconstitutional. Also, no one will give a shit about the Holder contempt vote scheduled for today.


I am slightly bothered by this ruling, but I'm not educated on what's "constitutional" as only things that you don't like seem to be "unconstitutional".
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#12 Jun 28 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I'm really surprised by Roberts here as well, that was unexpected. Well I suppose this makes "repeal Obamacare" a bigger election issue now.

"Repeal Obamacare" is better than "The president wasted a year making a law that was never going to be constitutional in a massive overreach of power".

One is them trying to knock down a huge success, the other is proof of failure.
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#13 Jun 28 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
No Scalia narrative dissent :(.

Welcome to the dark side, Chief Roberts. Good to have a 50 year old liberal Chief Justice....
It was probably the wiley feminine ways of Kagan that have turned him.


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#14 Jun 28 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
No Scalia narrative dissent :(.

Welcome to the dark side, Chief Roberts. Good to have a 50 year old liberal Chief Justice....
It was probably the wiley feminine ways of Kagan Ginsberg that have turned him.

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#15 Jun 28 2012 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
One is them trying to knock down a huge success, the other is proof of failure.
Wouldn't matter, I'm sure the hardcore partyliners had arguments for both outcomes prepared months ago.
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#16 Jun 28 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
Really, really odd that Roberts voted for & Kennedy dissented.
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#17 Jun 28 2012 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Of course they did. But it matters in messaging. This was a big win for the administration and, while there would have been a brave face put on it, striking down the law would have been a big loss. I'm sure Gbaji will roll by later though to explain how this is exactly what Romney wanted.

Also, lulz...
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Former George W. Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer tweets, "I miss Justice Harriet Miers." Miers was the White House counsel Bush nominated to the Supreme Court who withdrew her nomination after outrage that she was unqualified. Bush nominated Chief Justice John Roberts instead.
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#18djvsdjvs, Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 9:03 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) IMO, Mr. Roberts has betrayed the American people....I have only one question for him. How much money does it take to buy a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ? I suspect Mr. Roberts has forgotten the basics of America and over-thought the subject. On the bright side, another scumbag was put to death in Arizona.
#19 Jun 28 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Really, really odd that Roberts voted for & Kennedy dissented.


Some people are saying he voted in favor because he thought Kennedy was going to and if it was going to pass anyway, he wanted to be on the "winning side" so he could write a narrowly contrued decision.
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#20 Jun 28 2012 at 9:06 AM Rating: Default
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IMO, Mr. Roberts has betrayed the American people....I have only one question for him. How much money does it take to buy a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ? I suspect Mr. Roberts has forgotten the basics of America and over-thought the subject. On the bright side, another scumbag was put to death in Arizona.



I would sway for one those Bacon Sundaes...vote for me.
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#21 Jun 28 2012 at 9:07 AM Rating: Default
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Really, really odd that Roberts voted for & Kennedy dissented.


Just the first one, really. As important as the ruling itself is the indication that this may be the end of the reign of Anthony, first of his name, King of the United States. The king is dead, long live the king. Maybe he'll die from the stress and Obama can squeeze in another liberal before losing the election.
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#22 Jun 28 2012 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll slightly amend my above remark to this: This is a big win for Obama because it's not a big loss. I don't expect that he'll run on the law but he can try to handle criticism by offering to work to amend it as need be.

A strike down would have been a big loss, invalidating his largest achievement and furthering the mantra of illegal takeovers and stuff. Getting Roberts as the swing vote was a major, if unplanned, coup. So we're back to where we were a few days ago which is a lot better than being deep in a hole.
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#23 Jun 28 2012 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Some people are saying he voted in favor because he thought Kennedy was going to and if it was going to pass anyway, he wanted to be on the "winning side" so he could write a narrowly contrued decision.

I've no idea how those mechanics of the Supreme Court work. Is it possible to spring a surprise ruling on the other justices? I mean, they spent something like six or eight weeks knocking this case around before issuing their ruling on the last day of their session before they all head to the Jersey Shore.
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#24 Jun 28 2012 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Some people are saying he voted in favor because he thought Kennedy was going to and if it was going to pass anyway, he wanted to be on the "winning side" so he could write a narrowly contrued decision.


Yeah, that's not how that works. It's not a "surprise" to any of the justices how another will vote. They discuss cases for months. "Oh ****, turns out Kennedy wrote the dissent and sees the whole law as invalid! What?! I was trixed!" can't and doesn't happen.
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#25 Jun 28 2012 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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before they all head to the Jersey Shore.
Well, if I ever needed a reason to hate people ...
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#26 Jun 28 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fortunately, the GOP is fast at work on this, planning a symbolic and time wasting repeal vote for July that'll never move an inch in the Senate. Yay politics!
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#27 Jun 28 2012 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Roberts stressed that the decision does not speak to the merits of the law. "We do not consider whether the act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the nation's elected leaders," he said.


Oh Roberts, you just had to slip a fuck you in there didn't ya?
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#28 Jun 28 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I think it was Ginsburg who said last week that most of the decisions to be announced this week would be very divisive.

She wasn't kidding.

Today has been a great day for me so far. First the healthcare ruling, and then news that we got tickets to see Armin van Buuren live in October. It's not over yet, though, as my husband has surgery this afternoon (removal of a spot on his leg that might be melanoma) and watch the doctor get distracted by the healthcare news and accidentally cut off his leg or something.
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#29 Jun 28 2012 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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So much whining and gloating on the networks today.

Oh and Smash, are you of the opinion that Romney will be able to win a with a strictly money base?

I would think you'd hit a point of diminishing returns somewhere.
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#30 Jun 28 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've noticed this before but today I feel it's worth commenting on. Why is it that Faux News is the only major news outlet web site that doesn't allow public commenting on their articles? List of sites I've verified that allow comment / discussion per article:

CNN
MSNBC
ABC News
LA Times
NY Times
Washington Post
Wall Street Journal

**** even Christian Science Monitor has public comments. Faux News is the only news web site that apparently is afraid to hear directly from their readers on the topics they write about. Fo' shame.
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#31 Jun 28 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Screenshot

Having read the first several pages, I leave the arguments to those with more willpower.
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#32 Jun 28 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Some people are saying he voted in favor because he thought Kennedy was going to and if it was going to pass anyway, he wanted to be on the "winning side" so he could write a narrowly contrued decision.

I've no idea how those mechanics of the Supreme Court work. Is it possible to spring a surprise ruling on the other justices? I mean, they spent something like six or eight weeks knocking this case around before issuing their ruling on the last day of their session before they all head to the Jersey Shore.


When a ruling is to be issued, the Justices all meet together and give a preliminary vote and their reasons for the vote. Based upon that, the most senior justice of the majority vote assigns who writes the opinion. The draft of the opinion is written (usually by the Justice's senior clerk) and circulated for comment. That's done a few times before the actual opinion is issued. I would like to note that the preliminary vote the Justices hold is not set in stone and a Justice can change their minds on how to vote during the drafting process. Not sure how common that is, and that certainly did not happen with this split vote for the Healthcare Bill. At the same time the majority opinion is being written, a concurring opinion and a dissenting opinion can be written as well.

#33 Jun 28 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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#34 Jun 28 2012 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I would think you'd hit a point of diminishing returns somewhere.

You do, just likely somewhere other than Ohio.
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#35 Jun 28 2012 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not much research on those northward bound twits, eh.
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#36 Jun 28 2012 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: rolleyes

Just for fun, I want to know how many of them are age 19-25 and have coverage through their parents.
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#37 Jun 28 2012 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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ElneClare wrote:
Having read the first several pages, I leave the arguments to those with more willpower.

Someone on another forum mentioned the press rushing to release a story on a 113 page crafted legal document as "a college freshman rushing to read the book ten minutes before the exam".

Thumbelyna wrote:
When a ruling is to be issued, the Justices all meet together and give a preliminary vote and their reasons for the vote. Based upon that, the most senior justice of the majority vote assigns who writes the opinion.

I assumed they dropped colored marbles into a box and the press waited for either a white puff of smoke or a black one.

In funny freakshow news, Freepers are calling for the impeachment of Justice Roberts.
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#38 Jun 28 2012 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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djvsdjvs wrote:
On the bright side, another scumbag was put to death in Arizona.

Someone finally put a bullet in Arpaio's brainpan?
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#39 Jun 28 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Everyone will likely participate in the markets for food, clothing, transportation, shelter, or energy; that does not authorize Congress to direct them to purchase particular products in those or other markets today. The Commerce Clause is not a general license to regulate an individual from cradle to grave, simply because he will predictably engage in particular transactions.


From Roberts opinion, makes me sleep a little easier. Actually a lot of what is written in respect to the commerce clause is pretty good stuff. A government mandate to purchase goods from the private sector never sat well with me. Especially since I felt it set a dangerous precedent. The idea of purchasing healthcare wasn't as offensive, but it was one of those loopholes I was never very comfortable with.

Quote:
Under the mandate, if an individual does not maintain health insurance, the only consequence is that he must make an additional payment to the IRS when he pays his taxes. See §5000A(b). That, according to the Government,means the mandate can be regarded as establishing a condition—not owning health insurance—that triggers a tax—the required payment to the IRS. Under that theory, the mandate is not a legal command to buy insurance.Rather, it makes going without insurance just another thing the Government taxes, like buying gasoline or earning income. And if the mandate is in effect just a tax hike on certain taxpayers who do not have health insurance, it may be within Congress’s constitutional power to tax.


Crafty Democrats, always finding novel ways to raise taxes... Smiley: disappointed

Also linky, just because it's not linked everywhere or something...

Edited, Jun 28th 2012 9:55am by someproteinguy
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#40 Jun 28 2012 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Totally called Roberts being the swing vote after oral arguments ended in March. Smiley: grin
#41 Jun 28 2012 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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I really wonder how many right wing Americans have looked at the system the UK has before they made their arguments.
Over here we have mainstream "Socialized Medical Care" (National Health Service / NHS) that everyone (Even foreigners from the EU or USA) is allowed to use and there is also "Private Medical Care" if people want to use that, it is not taxed any higher by the government either.
The NHS is easily one of the best things about the UK, it has survived both left wing governments and far right (Margaret Thatcher) governments - Hear that? Even the right wing approves of the NHS.

It is not forced on people, there are not hordes of unemployed medical staff, and the care itself is actually quite good considering you get it for no cost.
How much of that has FOX NEWS skewed for your media?

I've been loosely following the path of this "Obamacare" and while it is not a carbon copy of the NHS it's a step in the right direction for sure. Letting people die on the streets or resort to crime because they cannot afford inflated medical costs/insurance is just wrong, no matter what angle you look at it.
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#42djvsdjvs, Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 11:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) NO, another liberal (murderer, 26 stab wounds and rapist......forcing their own emotional wants and desires on other people...sound like any people we know ? Oh, we can rehabilitate him !) was put to death. Sheriff Arpaio is a great man who loves his country. To bad liberals and progressives dont love their country. The first line in an application for any federal job or armed service should be "Do you love America ?" Unfortunately, the above mentioned scum would lie as with their applications for free money that others pay for.
#43 Jun 28 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd rather the first line be personal information that can be fact checked instead of opinions, but that's just me living in reality.
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#44 Jun 28 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dj sure knows how to lay it on thick Smiley: laugh
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#45 Jun 28 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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djvsdjvs wrote:
Debalic wrote:
djvsdjvs wrote:
On the bright side, another scumbag was put to death in Arizona.

Someone finally put a bullet in Arpaio's brainpan?

NO, another liberal (murderer, 26 stab wounds and rapist......forcing their own emotional wants and desires on other people...sound like any people we know ? Oh, we can rehabilitate him !) was put to death. Sheriff Arpaio is a great man who loves his country. To bad liberals and progressives dont love their country. The first line in an application for any federal job or armed service should be "Do you love America ?" Unfortunately, the above mentioned scum would lie as with their applications for free money that others pay for.


It's almost like you're trying to make a parody of real conservatives. Either that or you are making a parody and doing it poorly.
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#46 Jun 28 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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The homepage spin is hilarious. No new taxes!!!
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#47 Jun 28 2012 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
No overlaps with any other users in case anyone was wondering. Smiley: grin
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#48 Jun 28 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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I was kind of curious, but then almost as quickly wasn't.
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#49 Jun 28 2012 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
CNN had a headline up before the announcement saying the mandate was struck down. Smiley: laugh
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#50 Jun 28 2012 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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#51 Jun 28 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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It's varus posting from his new phone.

And an aside, NHS isn't free, that , I think, adversely affects the discussion of funding models.
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