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Well... holy wow. Healthcare Bill UpheldFollow

#52 Jun 28 2012 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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It is really interesting that in general this is described as the individual mandate being upheld. Really the verdict as written is largely opposed to the individual mandate idea. I mean they pretty much shoot down the whole notion that the government can force you to buy health care, or really interfere in the markets in any way in this matter. So in that sense any mandate is gone, and seemingly outside of the governments granted powers (as a lot of people suspected I'm guessing). Interestingly I wonder how much this decision get interpreted in the future, there's a lot of negativity about pro-actively interfering in markets. However contrary to that:

Quote:
taxes that seek to influence conduct are nothing new. Some of our earliest federal taxes sought to deter the purchase of imported manufactured goods in order to foster the growth of domestic industry.


What's interesting about this, is that if the language of the bill was written to describe this as a tax, it probably would have never gotten this far. The use of the word "penalty" instead of "tax" seems to have caused a bit of a debate, since one is deemed to be within congresses powers and the other outside of it.

The more of this I read the more interesting this decision becomes. There's really a lot of more traditional/conservative reasoning in there (I suppose this is indicative of Roberts), for justifying a very liberal idea.
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#53 Jun 28 2012 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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CSM wrote:
The News Corp. board of directors has approved a plan to split the company into two pieces, one for the company's lucrative entertainment businesses and its not-so-lucrative publishing businesses.

The Wall Street Journal, a News Corp. property joining the publishing side, reports the split will be formally announced on Thursday morning. The Journal, The Times of London, and HarperCollins will all fall under the publishing side, while 20th Century Fox, Fox News Channel, and the Fox broadcasting network will all fall under entertainment.


Smiley: lol
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#54 Jun 28 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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An extremely loose definition of the word "entertainment," at that.
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#55 Jun 28 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I mean they pretty much shoot down the whole notion that the government can force you to buy health care, or really interfere in the markets in any way in this matter. So in that sense any mandate is gone, and seemingly outside of the governments granted powers


What Roberts did say is that a) Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce but not force citizens to engage in it and that b) the healthcare mandate is less of a government mandate than it is a tax on those who choose not to insure themselves. While I'm sure presenting it as a tax is a political hot plate and not at all the intent of Obama and his supporters, the legitimacy of said tax is no longer questionable, at least.

And quite frankly, when presented that way, I tend to agree even more. The origin of the mandate as I understand it was to prevent abuse of emergency care by uninsured individuals. In this way, that goal is accomplished. If you choose to use emergency services as your primary method of care and choose not to retain health care insurance, that's perfectly legal - but you now have to pay an additional to help cover the expense.
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#56 Jun 28 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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MittRomney.com wrote:
As president, Mitt will nominate judges in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito. These justices hold dear what the great Chief Justice John Marshall called “the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected”: a written Constitution, with real and determinate meaning. The judges that Mitt nominates will exhibit a genuine appreciation for the text, structure, and history of our Constitution and interpret the Constitution and the laws as they are written. And his nominees will possess a demonstrated record of adherence to these core principles.

lulz
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#57 Jun 28 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
MittRomney.com wrote:
As president, Mitt will nominate judges in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito. These justices hold dear what the great Chief Justice John Marshall called “the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected”: a written Constitution, with real and determinate meaning. The judges that Mitt nominates will exhibit a genuine appreciation for the text, structure, and history of our Constitution and interpret the Constitution and the laws as they are written. And his nominees will possess a demonstrated record of adherence to these core principles.

lulz


I'm not seeing what's funny about that. I don't agree with Roberts' decision, but I can clearly see that if he considered the mandate as a tax, it was clearly constitutional. what I can't understand is how he came to see it as a tax when everybody on Obama's side did their best to make it not sound like a tax. It's not like Roberts' majority decision was "wow, this is the best piece of legislation ever and I came on myself an average of once per page".
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#58 Jun 28 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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So what exactly does this mean? Are you people joining the rest of the civilised world now?
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#59 Jun 28 2012 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'm not seeing what's funny about that.

That's ok.
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#60 Jun 28 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'm not seeing what's funny about that.

That's ok.


In other words, you can't explain what's funny about it. Gotcha!

Smiley: thumbsup
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#61 Jun 28 2012 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
So what exactly does this mean? Are you people joining the rest of the civilised world now?
It means we all HAVE to have health insurance now, or we get fined taxed!
#62 Jun 28 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
In other words, you can't explain what's funny about it. Gotcha!

You're right, I can't. Explaining a joke never works to make it funny. Either you get it or you don't.
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#63 Jun 28 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
So what exactly does this mean? Are you people joining the rest of the civilised world now?


A list of exemptions and a requirement to have a minimal skeleton of health care for most people (I foresee many a religious conversion to 'no-health-care' religions). We're being dragged into the 20th century kicking and screaming I suppose. Smiley: rolleyes
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#64 Jun 28 2012 at 2:54 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
In other words, you can't explain what's funny about it. Gotcha!

You're right, I can't. Explaining a joke never works to make it funny. Either you get it or you don't.


Or there's just not anything funny about. Again, gotcha!

Smiley: thumbsup Smiley: thumbsup
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#65 Jun 28 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
So what exactly does this mean? Are you people joining the rest of the civilised world now?
It means we all HAVE to have health insurance now, or we get fined taxed!


someproteinguy wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
So what exactly does this mean? Are you people joining the rest of the civilised world now?


A list of exemptions and a requirement to have a minimal skeleton of health care for most people (I foresee many a religious conversion to 'no-health-care' religions). We're being dragged into the 20th century kicking and screaming I suppose. Smiley: rolleyes

So, you guys have to have health insurance or be fined. Do insurance companies have to insure you regardless of pre-existing conditions and that sort of thing? That, to me, was always the biggest issue with your healthcare "system". That and the fact you pay over the odds for it.
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#66 Jun 28 2012 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:

So, you guys have to have health insurance or be fined. Do insurance companies have to insure you regardless of pre-existing conditions and that sort of thing? That, to me, was always the biggest issue with your healthcare "system". That and the fact you pay over the odds for it.


Linky that describes some of the changes

Quote:
Starting in 2014, the law makes it illegal for any health insurance plan to use pre-existing conditions to exclude, limit or set unrealistic rates on coverage.



Edited, Jun 28th 2012 2:07pm by someproteinguy
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#67 Jun 28 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Nilatai wrote:

So, you guys have to have health insurance or be fined. Do insurance companies have to insure you regardless of pre-existing conditions and that sort of thing? That, to me, was always the biggest issue with your healthcare "system". That and the fact you pay over the odds for it.


Linky that describes some of the changes

Quote:
Starting in 2014, the law makes it illegal for any health insurance plan to use pre-existing conditions to exclude, limit or set unrealistic rates on coverage.

Smiley: thumbsup

Thanks for the link.
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#68 Jun 28 2012 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Or there's just not anything funny about. Again, gotcha!

You're right. I wrote "lulz" just for the practice.

Hopefully the ACA covers cases of chronic butthurt in Republicans.
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#69Bigdaddyjug, Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 4:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm not butthurt. This decision is never going to affect me in any negative way. If the Republicans don't win a majority in both houses and the Presidency in November and repeal the ACA, I already work at a job that provides excellent health and wellness, dental, and vision benefits and I don't see myself leaving this company for a long time.
#70 Jun 28 2012 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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The thing is, just because you don't see yourself leaving the company any time soon, doesn't mean your company feels the same way. When I recieved my very first pink slip back in 2005, my naive self was shocked. I had given them seven years of loyalty, working my way of from outbound shclub taking credit card applications over the phone, to lower management of a successful division. The decision to downsize had little to do with my performance; our company had lost the lease on their very cushy, giant building, and they were going to have to move within a year. They went from around 200,000 square feet in an 150 year old four story mill to about a fourth of that in an old grocery store. The rent went down, but they also had to split up the company and consolidate divisions. My division, a boutique inbound call center of relatively highly paid insurance processors, was the first to get merged in with another department. They didn't need four supervisors in the newly combined department, and the other department was a medical division that would require sending me off for two weeks training on the other side of the country. Easy decision to let me go and keep the larger department's three, already trained supervisors, and have them cross trained locally on my stuff.

I've been bitter about how corporate America works ever since. Objectively, I can see why they let me go and kept my coworkers, but on a personal level, I'm still ticked about it. I lost a salaried position with pretty **** good benefits, and I've been trying to make up lost ground ever since to some extent.
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#71 Jun 28 2012 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Does anyone know what the "Tax" will be if you decided you don't want to pay for insurance?
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#72 Jun 28 2012 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.
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#73 Jun 28 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Quote:
In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.
Thank you!
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#74 Jun 28 2012 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
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At the same time though they are expanding Medicaid to cover people up to 133% of the federal poverty line and provide subsidies for insurance via tax credits for people making up to 400% of the poverty line. That's people making around $44k for an individual or $88k for a family of four.
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#75 Jun 28 2012 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
At the same time though they are expanding Medicaid to cover people up to 133% of the federal poverty line and provide subsidies for insurance via tax credits for people making up to 400% of the poverty line. That's people making around $44k for an individual or $88k for a family of four.

That's a good thing since I fear that premiums will skyrocket once the whole thing goes into effect.
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#76 Jun 28 2012 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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This will make things interesting over the next few months at work. When Doyle was still in office, our state already had a head start on an exchange that was supposed to be a model other states could follow. When Walker got in office early last year and installed Smith at DHS, the money was returned when Wisco jumped on the lawsuit bandwagon. I'm curious as to how this is going to play out now. I can see states like Florida still holding out since the deadline is basically 2014 for the mandate. Not sure how it will be handled here.
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