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#102 Jun 24 2012 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I know you're not implying I was...

Correct. I was laughing at the whole "If you're innocent, you'll jump through every single hoop we command and if you were refuse, not matter how asinine the hoop, it means you're really hiding something" argument. Oh, combined with its close sister, the "If you're not hiding something, then why won't you do anything and everything I say you have to do to prove it?" argument.

Edited, Jun 24th 2012 7:32pm by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#103 Jun 24 2012 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Siesen wrote:
Secretary of State had a salary increase in 2008 while Clinton was a senator. The usual fix is that the person's salary is lowered to what it was before the increase, and that's what happened here as well, but apparently it has never really been ruled on and some people are saying that it shouldn't be allowed.

Ah. No wonder I was confused. I knew about the salary thing, also knew it had been lowered and I didn't know there were still holdouts somewhere in the wild saying it was illegal.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#104 Jun 24 2012 at 10:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did you know that the word Strawman has been used 726 times in Asylum, while the word "Wombat" has only ever been used 415 times? I think strawman (727) is now officially overused as a word. We should probably add it to the filter. I'm thinking having all instances of strawman (728) changed to something amusing and horrifically context changing such as "assman" would be amusing and hilarious both.

This is why we can't have nice political debates.

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#105 Jun 24 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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And yes, I realize this would have made more sense if I had paused to see that I was replying to the last post on page 1, not page 3 like I thought I was, but i'm going to leve it here anyways because it's really a valid point, and **** it, i'm an admin and we get to do **** like this sometimes. It's in our contract!

Also, i need the post count.
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#106 Jun 25 2012 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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As far as I'm aware, contempt votes have to follow pretty much the same process as bills. Last I heard the contempt vote was in committee and was expected to pass. Not that any of you will admit he lied even if he gets held in contempt. It will just be a Republican witch hunt.


Here's where I think you're confused; the contempt vote against holder has nothing to do with any "lies". Holder has retracted two statements he made to congress - one being the Feb. 4th 2011 letter that stated "[the ATF] makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico." (This wasn't true, as F&F allowed it for tracking purposes) & the other a letter that identified former AG Mukasey as having been briefed on a predesessor to F&F, Operation Wide Receiver, when in fact he had been briefed on a different Gun Walking Program - but neither of those retractions are related to the contempt vote & they're only outright lies if you're a partisan hack.

Quote:
As far as what Issa thinks might be there, had Holder just turned over the requested documents like he is legally bound to do, there wouldn't be any speculation.


Issa's looking for proof that this whole thing was a secret evil plan for Obama to ban automatic weapons (At least, thats what he told the NRA in April). He's found no evidence on either the White House or Holder even knowing about the program before it was shut down. What Issa really wants, is to embarrass Obama. A lot of the documents he's requested, that Obama has denied him with E.P., deal with both the WH's & DOJs response to the investigation & the media. A lot of that stuff is political advice & it is probably pretty embarrassing (How do we spin this in an election year? etc.) It'd be good for pubbies, bad for the WH, & has nothing to do with F&F itself.

Quote:

The executive privilege is supposed to apply only to the president, not cabinet members or anybody else Obama wants to put that umbrella over. Obama stated publicly recently that he heard about F&F on TV not too long ago, therefore none of the documents from last year can apply to him and executive privilege would not apply.


Your reasoning is odd.
Quote:

I'm not even trying to claim that Holder was personally involved in the F&F operation. I am claiming that he lied about when he found out about it and is not trying to cover his **** by not turning over documents that may have proof of that lie. Even if they don't have proof, the Oversight committee is still entitled to review them.


Time running in a straight line in everything; why would you reason that documents after F&F was shut down would prove he knew about it while it was going on & not documents during its running? Because everything released so far HASN'T shown that Holder or the WH knew about it? Lack of evidence isn't proof of guilt, buddy.

Quote:
Oh, and earlier Gbaji was trying to list all of the times Obama just thumbed his nose at the law. He forgot appointing Hillary as Secretary of State, a position which she is not legally allowed to hold right now. But with everything else he's done, no reason why something minor like that should be remembered.


What Joph said.
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#107 Jun 25 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Did you know that the word Strawman has been used 726 times in Asylum, while the word "Wombat" has only ever been used 415 times? I think strawman (727) is now officially overused as a word. We should probably add it to the filter. I'm thinking having all instances of strawman (728) changed to something amusing and horrifically context changing such as "assman" would be amusing and hilarious both.

This is why we can't have nice political debates.

Administrator Kaolian
We could just get rid of the gender-biased form of the word all together and call it what it really is - a scarecrow.

However if you want to also market the word wombat you'll need to attach it to a political ideology by implanting it into the asslyum collective unconscious.
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#108 Jun 25 2012 at 7:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
I didn't know there were still holdouts somewhere in the wild saying it was illegal.
Liar.
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#109 Jun 25 2012 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
As far as I'm aware, contempt votes have to follow pretty much the same process as bills. Last I heard the contempt vote was in committee and was expected to pass. Not that any of you will admit he lied even if he gets held in contempt. It will just be a Republican witch hunt.


Here's where I think you're confused; the contempt vote against holder has nothing to do with any "lies". Holder has retracted two statements he made to congress - one being the Feb. 4th 2011 letter that stated "[the ATF] makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico." (This wasn't true, as F&F allowed it for tracking purposes) & the other a letter that identified former AG Mukasey as having been briefed on a predesessor to F&F, Operation Wide Receiver, when in fact he had been briefed on a different Gun Walking Program - but neither of those retractions are related to the contempt vote & they're only outright lies if you're a partisan hack.

Quote:
As far as what Issa thinks might be there, had Holder just turned over the requested documents like he is legally bound to do, there wouldn't be any speculation.


Issa's looking for proof that this whole thing was a secret evil plan for Obama to ban automatic weapons (At least, thats what he told the NRA in April). He's found no evidence on either the White House or Holder even knowing about the program before it was shut down. What Issa really wants, is to embarrass Obama. A lot of the documents he's requested, that Obama has denied him with E.P., deal with both the WH's & DOJs response to the investigation & the media. A lot of that stuff is political advice & it is probably pretty embarrassing (How do we spin this in an election year? etc.) It'd be good for pubbies, bad for the WH, & has nothing to do with F&F itself.

Quote:

The executive privilege is supposed to apply only to the president, not cabinet members or anybody else Obama wants to put that umbrella over. Obama stated publicly recently that he heard about F&F on TV not too long ago, therefore none of the documents from last year can apply to him and executive privilege would not apply.


Your reasoning is odd.
Quote:

I'm not even trying to claim that Holder was personally involved in the F&F operation. I am claiming that he lied about when he found out about it and is not trying to cover his **** by not turning over documents that may have proof of that lie. Even if they don't have proof, the Oversight committee is still entitled to review them.


Time running in a straight line in everything; why would you reason that documents after F&F was shut down would prove he knew about it while it was going on & not documents during its running? Because everything released so far HASN'T shown that Holder or the WH knew about it? Lack of evidence isn't proof of guilt, buddy.

Quote:
Oh, and earlier Gbaji was trying to list all of the times Obama just thumbed his nose at the law. He forgot appointing Hillary as Secretary of State, a position which she is not legally allowed to hold right now. But with everything else he's done, no reason why something minor like that should be remembered.


What Joph said.


I'm not claiming he knew about it while it was going on, just that he knew about it before he testified that he knew about it. And cover-ups usually continue to take place AFTER the wrongdoing. That's how those things usually work.
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#110 Jun 25 2012 at 8:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
We could just get rid of the gender-biased form of the word all together and call it what it really is - a scarecrow.

Agriculturally Produced Botanical-American. After Latinos, they're the fastest growing minority class!
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#111 Jun 25 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
We could just get rid of the gender-biased form of the word all together and call it what it really is - a scarecrow.

Agriculturally Produced Botanical-American. After Latinos, they're the fastest growing minority class!


Smiley: thumbsup

Edited, Jun 25th 2012 10:56am by Bigdaddyjug
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


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#112 Jun 25 2012 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
We could just get rid of the gender-biased form of the word all together and call it what it really is - a scarecrow.

Agriculturally Produced Botanical-American. After Latinos, they're the fastest growing minority class!


Smiley: thumbsup

Edited, Jun 25th 2012 10:56am by Bigdaddyjug

If they only had a brain.....
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#113 Jun 25 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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I wish someone would drop a house on the lot of them.
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#114 Jun 25 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
I'm thinking having all instances of strawman (728) changed to something amusing and horrifically context changing such as "assman" would be amusing and hilarious both.


I'm no pron connoiseur, but I hear "Assman and Robin" is a **** fine flick.
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#115 Jun 25 2012 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Contempt vote scheduled for Thursday, guaranteeing that it'll be buried under news the of Supreme Court health care ruling. This'll let people complain that the "media" didn't report on it enough!

Edited, Jun 25th 2012 7:12pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#116 Jun 26 2012 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Clearly that's part of their devious plan.
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#117 Jun 27 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
Really good article by Fortune that breaks down F&F. linky
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#118 Jun 27 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Really good article by Fortune that breaks down F&F. linky


You and I must have completely different definitions of "really good".
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That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


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#119 Jun 27 2012 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
You and I must have completely different definitions of "really good".

That I don't doubt for a second.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#120 Jun 27 2012 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Really good article by Fortune that breaks down F&F. linky


You and I must have completely different definitions of "really good".

Needs more T&A?
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#121 Jun 27 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Really good article by Fortune that breaks down F&F. linky


You and I must have completely different definitions of "really good".

Needs more T&A?


Less words. Reading is hard stuff.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#122 Jun 27 2012 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Really good article by Fortune that breaks down F&F. linky


You and I must have completely different definitions of "really good".

Needs more T&A?


Less words. Reading is hard stuff.


I've been doing it for such a huge part of my life, I figure I'm entitled to a break finally.
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


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#123 Jun 27 2012 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Really good article by Fortune that breaks down F&F. linky


You and I must have completely different definitions of "really good".

Needs more T&A?


Less words. Reading is hard stuff.


TL:DR = That Voth guy was frustrated, idealistic, and not much of a people person.

Edit: It is actually a nice little article, but I suspect there's too much political capital invested at the moment to ever really get a straight answer about what was going on. It's a wonderful situation when no one has motive to tell the whole truth.

Logical conclusion: It's all a coverup by the Mexican gang members that have infiltrated the NRA! Smiley: tinfoilhat

Edited, Jun 27th 2012 11:07am by someproteinguy
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#124 Jun 27 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Edit: It is actually a nice little article, but I suspect there's too much political capital invested at the moment to ever really get a straight answer about what was going on. It's a wonderful situation when no one has motive to tell the whole truth.


This is what I got out of the article also. The situation itself is a disgusting example of bureaucracy at its finest, but I suppose the actual truth regarding the movement of weapons is far less sinister than it's being made out to be.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#125 Jun 27 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Edit: It is actually a nice little article, but I suspect there's too much political capital invested at the moment to ever really get a straight answer about what was going on. It's a wonderful situation when no one has motive to tell the whole truth.


This is what I got out of the article also. The situation itself is a disgusting example of bureaucracy at its finest, but I suppose the actual truth regarding the movement of weapons is far less sinister than it's being made out to be.

There was a lot of opinion and speculation in the article. It clearly carries a bias, though it doesn't seem to be a dem vs pubby one. Also it stands out in it's anti-NRA stance. But I guess it hit the high points.
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#126 Jun 28 2012 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
It's the most fact based, rhetoric lacking, article on F&F I've read thus far & I learned something from it. Hence why I thought it was a good article. That & I felt those "socialists" at Fortune would be less of a biased source.

The whole "ignoring facts that don't support your political worldview" thing isn't something I can solve regardless of the source, though.
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