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#1 Jun 19 2012 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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I know I'm relieved.
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#2 Jun 19 2012 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Damn. I was going to stop making payments on my mortgage in 2039 in anticipation, too.
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#3 Jun 19 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Damn. I was going to stop making payments on my mortgage in 2039 in anticipation, too.

Sh*t, by then the kids will be paying our mortgage.

Edited, Jun 19th 2012 5:22pm by Atomicflea
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#4 Jun 19 2012 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Doesn't everyone have a 75 year ARM?

I was told it was a great way to save money.
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#5 Jun 19 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Doesn't everyone have a 75 year ARM?

I was told it was a great way to save money.


I opted for the 100 year version. i figured by the time I'm that old, advances in medical science will make us basically immortal.

And that brings up an even better topic for discussion. If medical science advances to the point where people are basically immune to diseases and old age, how horrible of a crime would murder be?
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#6 Jun 19 2012 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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It'll be a favour rather than a crime.

At least I sure as hell don't want to live forever, I'm perfectly content knowing I've got another 50-60 years and then I'll be done.
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#7 Jun 20 2012 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
It'll be a favour rather than a crime.

At least I sure as hell don't want to live forever, I'm perfectly content knowing I've got another 50-60 years and then I'll be done.
I could stand to live a couple hundred years, assuming my body ends up in a good enough shape to enjoy it.
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#8 Jun 20 2012 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
If medical science advances to the point where people are basically immune to diseases and old age, how horrible of a crime would murder be?
It'll be a sport to curb overpopulation.
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#9 Jun 20 2012 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Read an article recently that suggested we're nearly at the point where medical advances will come faster than we age effectively making us nearly immortal from natural cause deaths. Of course, science doesn't really work this way but it was a well written article and made some good points.

I'd be happy to live forever. I don't care how rough it gets. Life > death.
#10 Jun 20 2012 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
Read an article recently that suggested we're nearly at the point where medical advances will come faster than we age effectively making us nearly immortal from natural cause deaths. Of course, science doesn't really work this way but it was a well written article and made some good points.

I'd be happy to live forever. I don't care how rough it gets. Life > death.


As long as my body doesn't deteriorate I'd be happy to live for a couple of hundred years. I would not want to be 200 years old having spent the last 120 years of my life bed-ridden and unable to take care of myself.
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#11 Jun 20 2012 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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Quality of life to me is more important than immortality.

I mean yeah, I want to live forever too, but only if I get to keep my mental faculties - if I'm uploaded to the Matrix because my body is too feeble to move, that's cool too.
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#12 Jun 20 2012 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:


I don't care how rough it gets. Life > death.
Are you sure.

I'm only going another 25 years, 30 max. I already feel the onset of old age. It seems that there is almost an emotional degradation to a human-beings aging as well as the physical. Passion wanes, even sex is starting to get just a bit passe. Ones usefulness becomes questionable and the window of opportunity to make that 'big' mark on the world slowly closes.

But, now you can grow your soul into a tree - you could be good for another century or so.
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#13 Jun 20 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I could be a bored zombie and I think I'd still keep breathing if I could. Anything is better than nothing. Would that change when I'm 943 years old? Nobody knows, but I'd like to think not. Imagine the goals you could achieve knowing you have that much time to work on them.

Of course, the wars would be horrendous. Billions of people having babies that never die...

If we're effectively curing old age though I don't think degradation would be as much of an issue. I'm only 30 and I'm already feeling it but I'm feeling it because my body isn't healing the symptoms of old age.
#14 Jun 20 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
Imagine the goals you could achieve knowing you have that much time to work on them.

You'd still not win EQ.
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#15 Jun 20 2012 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Read an article recently that suggested we're nearly at the point where medical advances will come faster than we age effectively making us nearly immortal from natural cause deaths. Of course, science doesn't really work this way but it was a well written article and made some good points.

I'd be happy to live forever. I don't care how rough it gets. Life > death.


Haven't seen the article (linky? Smiley: flowers) but I'm guessing there's a lot of optimism there.

While we may be making more discoveries than ever before the problems facing the community are growing more and more complex as well. The days of a simple antibiotic curing a disease are largely over. More and more your trying to tackle problems that can't be solved with a silver bullet. Drug targets are increasingly important for other biological factors, so it's not a simple matter of blocking activity anymore. There are reasons why you'll have a new drug released with a long list of precautions, and that's not all just government red tape or anything. We've picked the low-hanging fruit so to speak.

Cancer is a great example of the problem. You're dealing with a problem you can't really just throw a simple drug at, your body is literally killing itself. It a challenge to find something to throw at the problem that doesn't hurt the patient, because well, the patient and the disease are one and the same. It's hard to find away to kill part of you while leaving the rest of you healthy and happy.

Add in other factors that just naturally occur at old age, and you're fighting an uphill battle. The human body is only designed/evolved/whatever to last so long, and it's not just a matter of shrinking telomeres. It's like trying to keep a car running for decades, but you can't really just outright replace all the parts or anything. At some point it just gets to the stage where you're spending a lot of effort dealing with problems arising from parts simply wearing out.

Look on the bright side though, how sucky would the job market be if no one ever retired? Smiley: nod

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 8:58am by someproteinguy
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#16 Jun 20 2012 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't have the link to the article and haven't located it in the 3 minutes I'm willing to spend on this task.

It was a nanotech story along the lines of "in the fairly near future" like 50 years future, we'll be able to extend our life expectancy faster than we age. It made good arguments with realistic solutions.

It was optimistic but not overly so, of course that's entirely my own opinion.

Keeping a body going is actually much simpler than keeping a car going. Our bodies are actually quite well designed to replace their own parts, the parts are just much smaller. Build machines small enough to kill individual bacterium and you've solved most of the worlds health problems (since those same machines could handle just about anything else as well). Cancer's not an issue if you have mini-machines picking off the cells as they develop.
#17 Jun 20 2012 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Keeping a body going is actually much simpler than keeping a car going. Our bodies are actually quite well designed to replace their own parts, the parts are just much smaller.

To some degree certainly. Your body does regenerate, and has mechanisms to repair itself. These abilities degrade over time, but there's no reason you couldn't find some way to aid that process. The body can't do some things though. We can't grow a new organ. You blow out you hip, you don't grow a new one, etc.

Yodabunny wrote:
Build machines small enough to kill individual bacterium and you've solved most of the worlds health problems (since those same machines could handle just about anything else as well). Cancer's not an issue if you have mini-machines picking off the cells as they develop.


You still have to have a way to identify your target. Not only find it and destroy it, but not follow false signals. Improvements to a delivery vector are important, and we really can't underscore that enough, but you still have to pick your targets somehow. Biomarker discovery is notoriously difficult process. It may be relatively simple to target a bacteria, you still have to make sure you're only targeting that particular strain, which is a bit more complicated. I mean our understanding of the human microbiome is still in it's infancy. Inadvertently killing off beneficial bacteria in your body could damage your immune system, cause you to overeat, lead to vitamin deficiency, and any number of other things.

In addition something like a cancer isn't just identifying the cancerous cells. You'll have a body with cells having all degrees of degradation from a lifetime of exposure to the environment. Catching them when they're sufficiently damaged to cause cancer, but not killing a cell that hasn't crossed that threshold would be difficult. There's much more of a grey area there than just "cancer" and "not cancer." In addition, not all cancers are necessarily dangerous anyway. Do we turn something loose in your body if we don't have to? How do we know when we've reached that point?

Nanotech certainly has a lot of potential as a delivery vector, but again, having the understanding of the human body that's necessary to choose the target is going to be the more difficult step.

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 11:25am by someproteinguy
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#18 Jun 20 2012 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
I only want to be immortal if someone turns me into a vampire in the next 5 or 10 years. What's the fun in being immortal if you're old?
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#19 Jun 20 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
To some degree certainly. Your body does regenerate, and has mechanisms to repair itself. These abilities degrade over time, but there's no reason you couldn't find some way to aid that process. The body can't do some things though. We can't grow a new organ. You blow out you hip, you don't grow a new one, etc.


You grew the first one, so the capability is there, we just don't know how to turn it on and direct it yet. That being said the way it was explained you wouldn't blow the hip in the first place because it would never have degraded. Of course I didn't provide a link so you wouldn't have known that :).

someproteinguy wrote:
You still have to have a way to identify your target. Not only find it and destroy it, but not follow false signals. Improvements to a delivery vector are important, and we really can't underscore that enough, but you still have to pick your targets somehow. Biomarker discovery is notoriously difficult process. It may be relatively simple to target a bacteria, you still have to make sure you're only targeting that particular strain, which is a bit more complicated. I mean our understanding of the human microbiome is still in it's infancy. Inadvertently killing off beneficial bacteria in your body could damage your immune system, cause you to overeat, lead to vitamin deficiency, and any number of other things.

In addition something like a cancer isn't just identifying the cancerous cells. You'll have a body with cells having all degrees of degradation from a lifetime of exposure to the environment. Catching them when they're sufficiently damaged to cause cancer, but not killing a cell that hasn't crossed that threshold would be difficult. There's much more of a grey area there than just "cancer" and "not cancer." In addition, not all cancers are necessarily dangerous anyway. Do we turn something loose in your body if we don't have to? How do we know when we've reached that point?

Nanotech certainly has a lot of potential as a delivery vector, but again, having the understanding of the human body that's necessary to choose the target is going to be the more difficult step.


Absolutely 100% agreed. That'd be why we're not there yet. Didn't say it was easy :).
#20 Jun 20 2012 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
To some degree certainly. Your body does regenerate, and has mechanisms to repair itself. These abilities degrade over time, but there's no reason you couldn't find some way to aid that process. The body can't do some things though. We can't grow a new organ. You blow out you hip, you don't grow a new one, etc.


You grew the first one, so the capability is there, we just don't know how to turn it on and direct it yet. That being said the way it was explained you wouldn't blow the hip in the first place because it would never have degraded. Of course I didn't provide a link so you wouldn't have known that :).


The first one I could see, since growing another organ seems to be something me may well get the hang of, and we've been making progress in that arena. You're still looking at surgery and a transplant though, which comes with it's own inherent risks. Certainly better than dying due to organ failure though. As for the things like bones breaking down I'm a little more skeptical. You are going to have inevitable wear and tear like you see in any mechanical system. You can't really fight physics there. I guess you'd be looking at some enhanced system to help repair damage and generate new bone or something?

Well I suppose either way we'll see. Or at least our kids will... Smiley: lol


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#21 Jun 20 2012 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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All of the problems are solvable, it's just a matter of when. :)
#22 Jun 20 2012 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I fear it's not a matter of whether or not the problems are solvable, but whether or not we can afford to solve the problems. Research is expensive, and we're not only forging new frontiers, but increasingly also fighting threats that are re-emerging (like antibiotic resistant strains of whatever). While people are generally willing to fund medical research well, there's a point where society just won't be willing to keep throwing money at the problem. Now I'm imagining a sci-fi film where a small subsection of the population are the only ones who could afford to expand their lifespan dramatically. Smiley: lol

Also consider there's good evolutionary reasons for us to die and invest in a new generation with remixed genes. Not only is upkeep of the younger model easier, but you're also hedging your bets against future problems with good gene flow.

Edited, Jun 20th 2012 2:30pm by someproteinguy
#23 Jun 22 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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But we're totally almost there!.

:)

Cost will certainly be a huge issue but I think the bigger issue is going to be space and resources. Once we hit a certain point what do you do with all of the undying people? Unless we have some pretty miraculous advances in space sciences we'll be into some pretty tough moral dilemmas.

What I expect will happen is cost of treatment will be artificially inflated to control the population. Immortal ruling class kind of stuff.
#24 Jun 22 2012 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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After seeing things like Forks Over Knives and reading other modern research on the subject, I've attempted to extend my immortality with veganism. It makes far too much sense. Giving up animal products I find to be akin to giving up cigarettes, like I did earlier this year - it's a hedonistic activity that I really enjoy, but if my quality of life improves without it I can't really imagine going back.

And honestly, the primary motivation for my decision was selfish. I want to live longer and healthier. I want to experience more from life than the food coma we've come to love and depend upon. The next and pretty much final vice I need to get rid of is caffeine, but it's been a part of my life almost as long as butter and cheese, and I doubt it'll ever entirely get eliminated. A more encompassing switch to drinking brewed tea from drinking coffee is what I'm working towards. But goddamn lattes are so easy and delicious. Smiley: mad I thought I would like them less with soy milk, but of course they're just as addictive.
#25 Jun 22 2012 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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RE: living forever.

That's why you download yourself into an Android body. Duh.
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#26 Jun 22 2012 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
RE: living forever.

That's why you download yourself into an Android body iBod. Duh.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2012 10:39am by Jophiel
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#27 Jun 22 2012 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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I'm holding out for a jacked up healing factor.
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#28 Jun 22 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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#29 Jun 22 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
RE: living forever.

That's why you download yourself into an Android body iBod. Duh.


Android would cost less and probably let you google.
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#30 Jun 22 2012 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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iBod wouldn't let you run really really fast, either.
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#31 Jun 22 2012 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
Seriously, you need to keep at least ONE vice that is unhealthy. That's part of the fun of living.
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#32 Jun 22 2012 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: rolleyesSmiley: mad




Smiley: laugh
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#33 Jun 22 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not even a comic book fan, but it bothers me that they mixed Marvel with DC. Just from a laziness in joke-crafting standpoint.

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#34 Jun 22 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:

I'm not even a comic book fan, but it bothers me that they mixed Marvel with DC. Just from a laziness in joke-crafting standpoint.

nerd
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#35 Jun 22 2012 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
I'm not even a comic book fan, but it bothers me that they mixed Marvel with DC. Just from a laziness in joke-crafting standpoint.

How do you feel about the poorly resized animation still?
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