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#1 May 23 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Srsly, so many f's for you.

That's all. If you're confused, go read a newspaper or somethin'.
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#2 May 23 2012 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only things popping up with my Google Fu is that Pakistan convicted the doctor who informed us about Bin Laden for conspiring against the state, and that [link]US drone strikes really tick off Pakistan[/link] despite being rather effective in killing terrorists. Am I missing anything?
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#3 May 23 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Drone kills four, Senate to cut aid to, acid women fear backlash over movie, and negotiations during the Chicago Summit?
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#4 May 23 2012 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was mainly spurred by the doctor situation but I'm willing to say F-You to Pakistan for any number of reasons Smiley: grin
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#5 May 23 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Well, it's not like they haven't been giving an abundance of reasons as of late.

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#6 May 23 2012 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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So, it's ok for America to bomb Pakistani soldiers with no apology for its acitons and to run covert ops, gathering information about an ally's populace (DNA), information America could never legally gather on it's own populace, but it's not ok for that ally to take issue with these items?

Does anyone question what sort of response America would take to an ally gathering DNA on their citizens and bombing American troops with no apology?
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#7 May 23 2012 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know how willingly I'd use the term "ally" to describe Pakistan...
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#8 May 23 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
So, it's ok for America to bomb Pakistani soldiers with no apology for its acitons and to run covert ops, gathering information about an ally's populace (DNA), information America could never legally gather on it's own populace, but it's not ok for that ally to take issue with these items?

Well, they could certainly take a stand by not cashing the checks.
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#9 May 23 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Locke's Article wrote:
He was tried under the Frontier Crimes Regulations, or FCR, the set of laws that govern Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal region. Human rights organizations have criticized the FCR for not providing suspects due process of law. There is no right to legal representation, to present material evidence or cross-examine witnesses.

Sounds peachy.
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#10 May 23 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
So, it's ok for America to bomb Pakistani soldiers with no apology for its acitons and to run covert ops, gathering information about an ally's populace (DNA), information America could never legally gather on it's own populace, but it's not ok for that ally to take issue with these items?

Well, they could certainly take a stand by not cashing the checks.
That was a hopeful comment and not an actual expectation yes? I mean, Republicans show you daily that people don't actually do that.
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#11 May 23 2012 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
That was a hopeful comment and not an actual expectation yes?

More of a dismissal of Pakistan's **** when they're getting billions in aid in exchange for their supposed assistance in the whole "Catch bin Laden and stop Al'Qaeda" thing.
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#12 May 23 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
So, it's ok for America to bomb Pakistani soldiers with no apology for its acitons and to run covert ops, gathering information about an ally's populace (DNA), information America could never legally gather on it's own populace, but it's not ok for that ally to take issue with these items?

Does anyone question what sort of response America would take to an ally gathering DNA on their citizens and bombing American troops with no apology?
This. If Pakistan killed someone who organized a lot of stuff to hurt Pakistan/Pakistani citizens in the US and the US would find out about an American citizen who helped them gather information for the assassination I doubt he'd get treated much better than this doctor.
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#13 May 23 2012 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
This. If Pakistan killed someone who organized a lot of stuff to hurt Pakistan/Pakistani citizens in the US and the US would find out about an American citizen who helped them gather information for the assassination I doubt he'd get treated much better than this doctor.

How many billions of dollars to find this guy is Pakistan paying us in this hypothetical?
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#14 May 23 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't really keep up on America/Pakistan relations. Are you guys still paying them?
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#15 May 23 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:29pm by lolgaxe
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#16 May 23 2012 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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We're seriously considering writing them a very sternly-worded letter.
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#17 May 23 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:29pm by lolgaxe
So their loyalty ended right around the time you guys decided to stop paying for it?


Edited, May 23rd 2012 1:33pm by Uglysasquatch
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#18 May 23 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was pretty sure we had to play nice until we get all our equipment out of Afghanistan; since Pakistan's ports are our best option and what not.
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#19 May 23 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.
So their loyalty ended right around the time you guys stopped paying for it?
Cutting, not stopping.
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#20 May 23 2012 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.
So their loyalty ended right around the time you guys stopped paying for it?
Cutting, not stopping.
No difference really, not when it comes to buying loyalty.
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#21 May 23 2012 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not like giving them more money was making them more loyal though. I guess we got more for our money than we would have out of Iran. There's that at least. Smiley: rolleyes
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#22 May 23 2012 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.
So their loyalty ended right around the time you guys decided to stop paying for it?

Actually, the funding was reduced as a result of "Oh, you mean bin Laden was there all along? Haha... who knew?", restrictions on supply movement, restrictions on intelligence gathering and other odds and ends. We weren't getting our money's worth.

someproteinguy wrote:
I was pretty sure we had to play nice until we get all our equipment out of Afghanistan; since Pakistan's ports are our best option and what not.

Pakistan has blocked land access through to Afghanistan for NATO.
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#23 May 23 2012 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I was pretty sure we had to play nice until we get all our equipment out of Afghanistan; since Pakistan's ports are our best option and what not.

Pakistan has blocked land access through to Afghanistan for NATO.


I could have sworn I was reading the other day about negotiations for transit, I'm guessing that all fell through then? Or never had a chance or something? Smiley: frown

Edit (answering my own question...):

Quote:
The two countries also failed to reach agreement at the Nato summit in Chicago over the supply routes that were closed after a US air strike in 2011 killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

Islamabad is demanding more than $5,000 (£3,200) per lorry, up from its previous rate of $250, to let supplies flow again.


From the bottom of this.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 10:16am by someproteinguy
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#24 May 23 2012 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:29pm by lolgaxe
So their loyalty ended right around the time you guys decided to stop paying for it?


Edited, May 23rd 2012 1:33pm by Uglysasquatch
This latest bit o' news would lead one to believe that the US wasn't really getting their monies worth all along.

caveat emptor
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#25 May 23 2012 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I think the Senate just voted on cutting funding for next year.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:29pm by lolgaxe
So their loyalty ended right around the time you guys decided to stop paying for it?


Edited, May 23rd 2012 1:33pm by Uglysasquatch
This latest bit o' news would lead one to believe that the US wasn't really getting their monies worth all along.

caveat emptor
Or maybe they weren't paying enough to get worthwhile loyalty? The whole point of this is that when buying loyalty, be shocked by nothing, as it's fleeting at best.
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#26 May 23 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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The point is they shouldn't be **** when the money starts to slow down.
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#27 May 23 2012 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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The US was never getting their monies worth. But, since 2009, we've approached it with much more of a "We paid and now we're going to act" attitude and stepped up the drone strikes and actions against the Pakistani protests taking out a considerable number of targets. And, of course, the bin Laden mission. Which is what this doctor thing is really all about -- Pakistan was globally embarrassed over the obvious failures of their intelligence, the probable fact that portions of their government were in collusion with Al'Qaeda to hide/not act on bin Laden's whereabouts and that the US took him out on Pakistani soil unilaterally.
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#28 May 23 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The US was never getting their monies worth. But, since 2009, we've approached it with much more of a "We paid and now we're going to act" attitude and stepped up the drone strikes and actions against the Pakistani protests taking out a considerable number of targets. And, of course, the bin Laden mission. Which is what this doctor thing is really all about -- Pakistan was globally embarrassed over the obvious failures of their intelligence, the probable fact that portions of their government were in collusion with Al'Qaeda to hide/not act on bin Laden's whereabouts and that the US took him out on Pakistani soil unilaterally.
The only thing that surprises me, is that it took this long for Pakistan to openly slap you guys in the face. And that you seem somehow surprised by it.
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#29 May 23 2012 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've been saying Pakistan is shit for years and years. I'm hardly surprised; I'm just taking the time to point it out once again.

If it were up to me, we'd take five years worth of "aid" to Pakistan, put it in a suitcase* with a bow and hand it to India just as a "fuck you". The amusement factor of that alone would exceed any value we get from Pakistan.


*We might need a bigger suitcase

Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:52pm by Jophiel
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#30 May 23 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
I've been saying Pakistan is shit for years and years. I'm hardly surprised; I'm just taking the time to point it out once again.

If it were up to me, we'd take five years worth of "aid" to Pakistan, put it in a suitcase* with a bow and hand it to India just as a "fuck you". The amusement factor of that alone would exceed any value we get from Pakistan.


*We might need a bigger suitcase

Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:52pm by Jophiel


I'm thinking a few steamer trunks would work.
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#31 May 23 2012 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Looking it up, five years worth of aid would look like this times ten..
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#32 May 23 2012 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I vote we fly planes, two at a time, over the country every day. One plane drops armed explosives that detonate when opened, the other food and/or money and whatever other aid. All in similar boxes, and in random patterns. Not just for Pakistan, though.
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#33 May 23 2012 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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I can understand being frustrated with the lack of cooperation coming from Pakistan given their supposedly friendly stance and the fact the US pays them quite a bit of money. I fail to see how this justifies drone strikes either legally or morally. It seems like a pretty bad idea generally, really.

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Well, they could certainly take a stand by not cashing the checks.


Reparations!
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#34 May 23 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Looking it up, five years worth of aid would look like this times ten..


Well then it's settled. Load it onto 10 trucks and pay Pakistan $50,000 to let you drive across their country just to add in extra giggles.
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#35 May 23 2012 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Well then it's settled. Load it onto 10 trucks and pay Pakistan $50,000 to let you drive across their country just to add in extra giggles.

Win.
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#36 May 23 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
I fail to see how this justifies drone strikes either legally or morally.

It's much easier to inform a Predator Drone's next of kin about his horrible, untimely demise than it is for live soldiers.
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#37 May 23 2012 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
I fail to see how this justifies drone strikes either legally or morally.

It's much easier to inform a Predator Drone's next of kin about his horrible, untimely demise than it is for live soldiers.


**** sorry, I forgot that only Americans are people.
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#38 May 23 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't follow. Are you against the drones or the strikes? If a guy in a fighter jet fired off the missiles, would it make a difference?
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#39 May 23 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, because the United States is the only nation in history to incur collateral damage in battle. Smiley: rolleyes
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#40 May 23 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
sh*t, sorry, I forgot that only Americans are people.


Sorry, but the DNA tests were inconclusive. Smiley: frown

Perhaps we didn't get a large enough sample size though; I'm sure this misunderstanding could be cleared up by just swabbing a few more individuals. If you could provide those samples that'd be great. Of course, if you're a little short handed we understand, and could recommend a very good doctor to help you out if you'd like.


Edited, May 23rd 2012 12:18pm by someproteinguy
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#41 May 23 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I don't follow. Are you against the drones or the strikes? If a guy in a fighter jet fired off the missiles, would it make a difference?


Nah, I wouldn't care if the US was using conventional airstrikes to catch criminals. It's the drones' souls I'm worried about.

It's hard enough for a machine to get into heaven as it is.

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Yes, because the United States is the only nation in history to incur collateral damage in battle.


You're not at war with Pakistan.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 7:24pm by Kavekk
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#42 May 23 2012 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Yet.
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#43 May 23 2012 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
Yes, because the United States is the only nation in history to incur collateral damage in battle.


You're not at war with Pakistan.

We're not at war with anyone. The war on terror is over, remember?
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#44 May 23 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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The US has really expensive and ineffective propaganda in the region.
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#45 May 23 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Given his job, I take TLW as a credible guy who's workmate told him what his friend told him what his contact told him on this one.
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#46 May 24 2012 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not at all, it's just common knowledge.
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#47 May 24 2012 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/foreign-aid/229371-senate-cuts-aid-to-pakistan-by-33-million-in-retaliation-for-tribal-court-ruling-in-bin-laden-case

Quote:
Senate appropriators unanimously voted Thursday to cut Pakistani aid by $33 million, or $1 million for every year a Pakistani doctor will spend in prison for helping the CIA find Osama bin Laden.

Finally, strong action in response to Pakisan's shenanigans. Then again...

Quote:
The cut represents about 4 percent of the $800 million set aside for Pakistan next fiscal year...

Smiley: disappointed
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#48 May 24 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: lol
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#49 May 24 2012 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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That'll learn them.
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#50 May 24 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Face it, the USA is pouring trillions of dollars all over the middle eastern and Central Asian region in order to set up the world chess board to secure ongoing flows of crude oil out of and piped across those places.

If only the US was pouring a sizable fraction of that into getting economies of scale in renewable energy alternatives that are source-able within your own nation. For instance, large scale algae farms that can be grown in tanks on marginal land, and directly used in cars, trucks and aeroplanes as an alternative to "gas".

Edited, May 24th 2012 3:55pm by Aripyanfar
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#51 May 24 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Face it, the USA is pouring trillions of dollars all over the middle eastern and Central Asian region in order to set up the world chess board to secure ongoing flows of crude oil out of and piped across those places.

If only the US was pouring a sizable fraction of that into getting economies of scale in renewable energy alternatives that are source-able within your own nation. For instance, large scale algae farms that can be grown in tanks on marginal land, and directly used in cars, trucks and aeroplanes as an alternative to "gas".


Ah yes! The "If only we did <this other thing that I haven't thought through>, everything would be perfect!" argument. An oldie, but a goodie.
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