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#52 May 18 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:

Sounds like ignorant laziness to me. It's called budget cuts. I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals.

What happens when you run out of budget to cut?
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#53 May 18 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't know, that was a pretty brilliant response. I'll bet it was tons of fun to write.
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#54 May 18 2012 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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cidbahamut wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

Sounds like ignorant laziness to me. It's called budget cuts. I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals.

What happens when you run out of budget to cut?

Fire more teachers, firefighters, and union laborers.

Obviously.
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#55 May 18 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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We could spend less on guards if we just went with the panopticon route.

Fuck off, Firefox, it's a word. I wasn't trying to say "optician".
#56Almalieque, Posted: May 19 2012 at 12:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) When that situation is in the planning range, then we should address that situation then based on the current situation. As of now, the simple fact that there are luxuries in the prison systems is a dead giveaway that there are plenty room for budge cuts.
#57 May 19 2012 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

Sounds like ignorant laziness to me. It's called budget cuts. I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals.

What happens when you run out of budget to cut?
Starving prisoners start eating each other until the problem has fixed itself?
#58 May 19 2012 at 4:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

Sounds like ignorant laziness to me. It's called budget cuts. I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals.

What happens when you run out of budget to cut?


When that situation is in the planning range, then we should address that situation then based on the current situation. As of now, the simple fact that there are luxuries in the prison systems is a dead giveaway that there are plenty room for budge cuts.
So, your view on prison is as a punishment system, not a rehabilitation system I take it?
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#59 May 19 2012 at 4:52 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

Sounds like ignorant laziness to me. It's called budget cuts. I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals.

What happens when you run out of budget to cut?


When that situation is in the planning range, then we should address that situation then based on the current situation. As of now, the simple fact that there are luxuries in the prison systems is a dead giveaway that there are plenty room for budge cuts.
So, your view on prison is as a punishment system, not a rehabilitation system I take it?


Ideally, I would prefer the latter. However, if money is an issue, then the two should be separated but present. If one of the two has to go, it should be the rehabilitation and not the prison time.

Edited, May 19th 2012 12:53pm by Almalieque
#60 May 19 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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1 Shoot the murderers.
2 Cut the rapists junk off, then shoot em.
3. Then set them free and turn them all lose to their families.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Statistically there will be -0- repeat offenders and all the tax money (well, ok, less the cost of a little ammo which I bet would be donated) will be saved.

Any more problems to deal with? Bout time for lunch here.
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#61 May 19 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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RaiseIII wrote:
1 Shoot the murderers.
2 Cut the rapists junk off, then shoot em.
3. Then set them free and turn them all lose to their families.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Statistically there will be -0- repeat offenders and all the tax money (well, ok, less the cost of a little ammo which I bet would be donated) will be saved.

Any more problems to deal with? Bout time for lunch here.


Simplistic solutions are always the bestest.
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#62 May 19 2012 at 12:20 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
RaiseIII wrote:
1 Shoot the murderers.
2 Cut the rapists junk off, then shoot em.
3. Then set them free and turn them all lose to their families.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Statistically there will be -0- repeat offenders and all the tax money (well, ok, less the cost of a little ammo which I bet would be donated) will be saved.

Any more problems to deal with? Bout time for lunch here.


Simplistic solutions are always the bestest.


Even more funner would be to chat with Charlie Manson and the like, or even better the victims of their crimes and then try to justify a fringe position where the rights of a very, very few should hold hostage the rights and public safety of an entire nation. Blame the prosecutor, the lack of a proper defense or an over zealous judge, but not the rest of us.
I suspect you have never been a victim of a crime as heinous as these folks are capable of. Some of us have. Lose a loved one and it will change an idealistic view in a heartbeat.

Simple works.
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#63 May 19 2012 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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#64 May 19 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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I suspect you have never been a victim of a crime as heinous as these folks are capable of. Some of us have. Lose a loved one and it will change an idealistic view in a heartbeat.

Simple works.


Anything short of executing all suspected criminals is not an idealistic view.
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#65 May 19 2012 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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RaiseIII wrote:
I suspect you have never been a victim of a crime as heinous as these folks are capable of. Some of us have.

Which is why you'd be disqualified from a jury about a similar crime. Your objectivity is compromised.
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#66 May 21 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?


I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.

The incarceration rate in the US has skyrocketed in the last three decades. The US incarceration rates are two to three times those of other western countries. The violent crime rate in the US, on the other hand, has been dropping steadily since the 90's.

Also, black men and Hispanic men over-overwhelmingly make up the majority of our prison population. You hardly have to look to find a study pointing to the conclusion that black and Hispanic men are arrested and/or incarcerated more frequently than white men for similar crimes.

...and you think spending less per prisoner is the solution? Smiley: oyvey







Edited, May 21st 2012 3:12pm by Elinda
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#67 May 21 2012 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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RaiseIII wrote:
Samira wrote:
RaiseIII wrote:
1 Shoot the murderers.
2 Cut the rapists junk off, then shoot em.
3. Then set them free and turn them all lose to their families.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Statistically there will be -0- repeat offenders and all the tax money (well, ok, less the cost of a little ammo which I bet would be donated) will be saved.

Any more problems to deal with? Bout time for lunch here.


Simplistic solutions are always the bestest.


Even more funner would be to chat with Charlie Manson and the like, or even better the victims of their crimes and then try to justify a fringe position where the rights of a very, very few should hold hostage the rights and public safety of an entire nation. Blame the prosecutor, the lack of a proper defense or an over zealous judge, but not the rest of us.
I suspect you have never been a victim of a crime as heinous as these folks are capable of. Some of us have. Lose a loved one and it will change an idealistic view in a heartbeat.

Simple works.
[:loony:]

Gees, who's been guarding the door around here?
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#68 Jun 02 2012 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?


I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.

The incarceration rate in the US has skyrocketed in the last three decades. The US incarceration rates are two to three times those of other western countries. The violent crime rate in the US, on the other hand, has been dropping steadily since the 90's.

Also, black men and Hispanic men over-overwhelmingly make up the majority of our prison population. You hardly have to look to find a study pointing to the conclusion that black and Hispanic men are arrested and/or incarcerated more frequently than white men for similar crimes.

...and you think spending less per prisoner is the solution? Smiley: oyvey


Edited, May 21st 2012 3:12pm by Elinda


Uhhhh.. I fail to see the connection. If the problem is money and the desired solution is to reduce money, then the solution must involve a reduction on money. Your response appears to focus on reducing crime. That's a completely different issue.
#69 Jun 02 2012 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?


I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.

The incarceration rate in the US has skyrocketed in the last three decades. The US incarceration rates are two to three times those of other western countries. The violent crime rate in the US, on the other hand, has been dropping steadily since the 90's.

Also, black men and Hispanic men over-overwhelmingly make up the majority of our prison population. You hardly have to look to find a study pointing to the conclusion that black and Hispanic men are arrested and/or incarcerated more frequently than white men for similar crimes.

...and you think spending less per prisoner is the solution? Smiley: oyvey


Edited, May 21st 2012 3:12pm by Elinda


Uhhhh.. I fail to see the connection. If the problem is money and the desired solution is to reduce money, then the solution must involve a reduction on money. Your response appears to focus on reducing crime. That's a completely different issue.
No, my solution would be to reduce incarceration.
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#70 Jun 02 2012 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals. If you think otherwise, then it's people like you that create these problems.


Aren't you the same person who defended the government spending a ton of money on arbitrary things, saying that if you don't "understand the military and how it works" you can't start making arguments about cutting the budget....?
#71 Jun 04 2012 at 6:18 AM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?


I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.

The incarceration rate in the US has skyrocketed in the last three decades. The US incarceration rates are two to three times those of other western countries. The violent crime rate in the US, on the other hand, has been dropping steadily since the 90's.

Also, black men and Hispanic men over-overwhelmingly make up the majority of our prison population. You hardly have to look to find a study pointing to the conclusion that black and Hispanic men are arrested and/or incarcerated more frequently than white men for similar crimes.

...and you think spending less per prisoner is the solution? Smiley: oyvey


Edited, May 21st 2012 3:12pm by Elinda


Uhhhh.. I fail to see the connection. If the problem is money and the desired solution is to reduce money, then the solution must involve a reduction on money. Your response appears to focus on reducing crime. That's a completely different issue.
No, my solution would be to reduce incarceration.


My solution is to the problem of reducing the amount of money spent in incarceration. Reducing the amount of incarcerations doesn't justify the amount of money spent on them. Once again, these are two different scenarios.

Belkira wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals. If you think otherwise, then it's people like you that create these problems.


Aren't you the same person who defended the government spending a ton of money on arbitrary things, saying that if you don't "understand the military and how it works" you can't start making arguments about cutting the budget....?


What? Spend what money? I was against the US wasting money on politically driven bogus studies. This is consistent to my previous claim. I'm not suggesting the US to make any specific changes, I'm merely pointing out that there are obvious things available to cut. I don't know the effects nor am I demanding what to cut. You just can't say that there aren't room for cuts.
#72 Jun 04 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?


I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.

The incarceration rate in the US has skyrocketed in the last three decades. The US incarceration rates are two to three times those of other western countries. The violent crime rate in the US, on the other hand, has been dropping steadily since the 90's.

Also, black men and Hispanic men over-overwhelmingly make up the majority of our prison population. You hardly have to look to find a study pointing to the conclusion that black and Hispanic men are arrested and/or incarcerated more frequently than white men for similar crimes.

...and you think spending less per prisoner is the solution? Smiley: oyvey


Edited, May 21st 2012 3:12pm by Elinda


Uhhhh.. I fail to see the connection. If the problem is money and the desired solution is to reduce money, then the solution must involve a reduction on money. Your response appears to focus on reducing crime. That's a completely different issue.
No, my solution would be to reduce incarceration.


My solution is to the problem of reducing the amount of money spent in incarceration. Reducing the amount of incarcerations doesn't justify the amount of money spent on them. Once again, these are two different scenarios.
If the problem is not enough space or money to house prisoners then my solution addresses the problem as much as yours - more so, as it would actually help with the crowding issues. Besides, if you're going to run a low-budget dungeon you'd best make sure the folks you throw in there to rot are really the worst-of-the-worst society has to offer and not just a bunch of negro street-loiterers in hoodies and illegal immigrant look-alikes.

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#73 Jun 04 2012 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
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If the problem is not enough space or money to house prisoners then my solution addresses the problem as much as yours - more so, as it would actually help with the crowding issues. Besides, if you're going to run a low-budget dungeon you'd best make sure the folks you throw in there to rot are really the worst-of-the-worst society has to offer and not just a bunch of negro street-loiterers in hoodies and illegal immigrant look-alikes.


Unless I'm mistaken, the concern was releasing people from jail to prevent spending the money to house them. It's simply a problem of justice vs money, hence the title of the thread. It's not about the lack of space or lack of money. If anything, spending less per prisoner would allow you to house more prisoners under the same budget.

I don't consider not having flat screen televisions, weights, etc as a "dungeon". As children, we have access to less than that under punishment from our parents. I do not have any sympathy for the lack of entertainment for prisoners.

If there's a percentage of prisoners who are "negro street-loiters in hoodies" and "illegal immigrant look-alikes", then yet again, that's an entire different issue. That has no bearing on the quality of prison of life because the prisons weren't made for the innocent. If the innocent are being thrown in jail, then that's another social issue that needs to be addressed.
#74 Jun 04 2012 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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I recently heard that the State of Louisiana was offering job skill training to prisoners who were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. I couldn't help but facepalm for the stupidity of the state I called home.

I think prisoners should be forced to work. Prisons should be as close to self-sufficient as possible. Make the prisoners grow their own vegetables, raise and slaughter their own livestock, and cook their own food. They already have prison laundries, why not prison farms and prison cattle ranches?
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#75 Jun 04 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Quote:
If the problem is not enough space or money to house prisoners then my solution addresses the problem as much as yours - more so, as it would actually help with the crowding issues. Besides, if you're going to run a low-budget dungeon you'd best make sure the folks you throw in there to rot are really the worst-of-the-worst society has to offer and not just a bunch of negro street-loiterers in hoodies and illegal immigrant look-alikes.


Unless I'm mistaken, the concern was releasing people from jail to prevent spending the money to house them. It's simply a problem of justice vs money, hence the title of the thread. It's not about the lack of space or lack of money. If anything, spending less per prisoner would allow you to house more prisoners under the same budget.

I don't consider not having flat screen televisions, weights, etc as a "dungeon". As children, we have access to less than that under punishment from our parents. I do not have any sympathy for the lack of entertainment for prisoners.

If there's a percentage of prisoners who are "negro street-loiters in hoodies" and "illegal immigrant look-alikes", then yet again, that's an entire different issue. That has no bearing on the quality of prison of life because the prisons weren't made for the innocent. If the innocent are being thrown in jail, then that's another social issue that needs to be addressed.

You're the one who made this about the 'quality of life' in prison. You sound jealous of the prisoners. The OP was simply a discussion about releasing some of the longtime low-risk prisoners as a cost saving measure.

If the powers that be are debating this one-time release of prisoners, then it should be acknowledged that perhaps they were sentenced too long to begin with or that perhaps incarceration isn't getting us the best bang for our corrections buck, and ergo a policy review is in order.





Edited, Jun 4th 2012 7:55pm by Elinda
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#76 Jun 04 2012 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I think prisoners should be forced to work.
They'll need job skill training.






Edited, Jun 4th 2012 7:54pm by Elinda
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