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#1 May 16 2012 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's a couple groups in Illinois saying that a select group of prisoners should be released. The group? People convicted of rape or murder who have served more than 30 years in prison and who are over 50 years old. The reason? Cost:Benefit. To wit:

-- It costs $75,000 per prisoner annually to house and feed and provide medical care
-- There are about 220 prisoners who meet the above "qualifications"
-- The recidivism rate for these prisoners (30+ years in, 50+ years old) is about 2%

So we're spending around $15 million a year to keep these people in when 98% of them don't pose a threat.

The flip side, of course, is that statistically four or five of them would commit new crimes after their release and the crimes they're in for aren't petty ones.

Not that I think these guys are getting any traction but do they have a point?
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#2 May 16 2012 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe if their point is to bring back the death penalty.
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#3 May 16 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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How does the recidivism rate get calculated? 2% would commit a similar crime (rape or murder) or would commit a crime?

If it is commit a crime, I say let them out. If it is commit a similar crime, I think it's tough to justify.
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#4 May 16 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm pretty sure it's "commit the same/similar crime they were imprisoned for". So going to jail for murder and going back for drug possession doesn't count.

Edit: Here's an article about it. Not a great article but best I saw on short notice (I originally got my stats from the radio this morning; they're pretty close to the ones here).
Quote:
Ryan said that the recidivism rate, the rate which an inmate is likely to repeat the offense they were imprisoned for, for C-Number inmates in Illinois is about two or three percent. The overall recidivism rate for all Illinois prisoners is higher than 50 percent.


Edited, May 16th 2012 9:39am by Jophiel
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#5 May 16 2012 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Let them out, but surgically attach small yield explosives to a major organ. If a crime happens near where they are living the collar is remotely armed, and they have 24 hours to turn themselves into the local police station for questioning before it detonates. The prisons now have vacancies to fill, and the released prisoners can still be monitored.
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#6 May 16 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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I really dislike the notion of forgoing justice because it's cheaper not to chase it. That is, of course, just using the assumption that their sentences resemble the just course of action in the first place. I may not agree, but a jury ruled that it was the just course of action, and it shouldn't be deviated from because it would be cheaper not to.

Really, I just don't see much reason to be spending money fixing the symptoms, not the problem. At least not here.

Plus, in my opinion, every victim of those 4 or 5 released convicts is on the state in this situation. They chose to release people they knew could be dangerous, and they did it in service of their budget, not justice. The state would owe those families compensation. Doesn't hold a candle to the savings, of course, but does mitigate them somewhat.

If the state wants to save money whilst ensuring justice is served, then they should give these men an appeal that would evaluate their original crimes against time spent, and evaluate their threat to society. If they are deemed safe, and their punishment sufficient, by a jury of their peers then I have no issue with them being released.
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#7 May 16 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wasn't really a big fan of Justice. He was kind of a prick at times, IMO.

This thread is about Dragon Age, right?
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#8 May 16 2012 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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This thread is about Dragon Age, right?


Isn't every thread?
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#9 May 16 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Plus, in my opinion, every victim of those 4 or 5 released convicts is on the state in this situation. [...] The state would owe those families compensation. Doesn't hold a candle to the savings, of course, but does mitigate them somewhat.

Give each family fifteen mil and after four years it's all profit.
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#10 May 16 2012 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Drop 'em off at a corner gas station in the next state with a $20 bill and a new pair of pants. Say you'll be rooting for 'em.
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#11 May 16 2012 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm lazy and can't be **** to read the article, but did it say anything about the poverty/employment status of these gentlemen should they be released? It would be kind of silly to let them out of prison to save money only to turn around and put them on welfare or unemployment benefits.

I say chemically castrate them, then release them.
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#12 May 16 2012 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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It did not. The general opinion on the radio was that, even if they went on public assistance, it was unlikely that they would cost the state as much money. That would certainly cut the "savings" though and while it might sound okay to someone for $15mil a year, they'd be less apt to do it for $6mil.
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#13 May 16 2012 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Drop 'em off at a corner gas station in the next state with a $20 bill and a new pair of pants.

This would give Indiana a sense of purpose beyond annoying me en route to Ohio.
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#14 May 16 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stick them in an arena. Last man standing gets his freedom. Film it all and sell the footage on pay-per-view. If the one guy set free kills/rapes anyone after being released, give the victim's family half of the proceeds from the pay-per-view event.

I don't know why you guys aren't already doing this. America is really **** at this whole Capitalist thing.
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#15 May 16 2012 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Stick them in an arena. Last man standing gets his freedom.
TWO MAN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVE!
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#16 May 16 2012 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Stick them in an arena. Last man standing gets his freedom.

Battle Royale is such a badass fucking movie.
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#17 May 16 2012 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Stick them in an arena. Last man standing gets his freedom.
TWO MAN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVE!
Now I'm going to want to watch that all day. Smiley: mad
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#18 May 16 2012 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
50 doesn't seem quite old enough to warrant releasing violent criminals to me. Wait another 15 or 20 years, until they're old and feeble and not likely to be physically capable of hurting anyone, and then you might have a good idea.
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#19 May 16 2012 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wouldn't it be safer, cheaper, and overall more cost effective to release everyone convicted of smoking pot?

I mean, yeah they'll probably go right back on the weed again, but most stoners I know wouldn't hurt a kitten.
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#20 May 16 2012 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Wouldn't it be safer, cheaper, and overall more cost effective to release everyone convicted of smoking pot?

I mean, yeah they'll probably go right back on the weed again, but most stoners I know wouldn't hurt a kitten.


Unless they had a serious case of the munchies and the local convenience store was out of Funyuns.
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#21 May 16 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Wouldn't it be safer, cheaper, and overall more cost effective to release everyone convicted of smoking pot?

Probably. But I'm sure there's already some Occupy Chicago'ers carrying that banner so you don't need to worry.
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#22 May 16 2012 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
catwho wrote:
Wouldn't it be safer, cheaper, and overall more cost effective to release everyone convicted of smoking pot?

I mean, yeah they'll probably go right back on the weed again, but most stoners I know wouldn't hurt a kitten.


There's that too. I'd be a lot happier releasing pot heads (dealers too most likely, as long as they have no history of violent crimes) than old **** murderers and rapists.
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#23 May 16 2012 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I see the pot argument has already been made for me...
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#24 May 16 2012 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I dunno. Aside from serials, gangsters and hit men, murderers have a very low recidivism rate. If those can be filtered out, I'd probably be okay with releasing the rest.

Rapists, though, no way. High recidivism and high chance of escalating to great bodily harm if they're thwarted or feel endangered. I don't even know why they're lumped in the same category.

Put me down for clearing out the dopers first.
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#25 May 16 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
catwho wrote:
Wouldn't it be safer, cheaper, and overall more cost effective to release everyone convicted of smoking pot?

Probably. But I'm sure there's already some Occupy Chicago'ers carrying that banner so you don't need to worry.

Speaking of whom, they put up "construction barriers" around the Sears Tower, and there were two burly men in security jackets standing at the entrance when I walked by this morning. Like those dirty hippies are going to be up at a decent, God-fearing hour of the day. Smiley: rolleyes

Some of the precautions that property managers have been giving to their residents in the Loop neighborhoods and Streeterville/Gold Coast are just silly.
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#26 May 16 2012 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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We had a property manager call for a place we maintain and she asked us to remove any stones from the property and hold them until next week Smiley: laugh
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#27 May 16 2012 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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hold them where?
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#28 May 16 2012 at 7:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Beats me. In our yard, I guess or in the back of a truck. Somewhere where anarchists wouldn't be throwing them at her building.
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#29 May 16 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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"Okay, I'm keeping Keith Richards in my basement. Tell me when I can let him out - he's way expensive to keep."
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#30 May 16 2012 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
"Okay, I'm keeping Keith Richards in my basement. Tell me when I can let him out - he's way expensive to keep."

$75,000 a year!
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#31 May 16 2012 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure we could hold people for cheaper than 75k/yr, perhaps if we cordoned off an area, such as a city, where laws did not apply and let them just live there?

Something like New York.
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#32 May 17 2012 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Stick them in an arena. Last man standing gets his freedom. Film it all and sell the footage on pay-per-view. If the one guy set free kills/rapes anyone after being released, give the victim's family half of the proceeds from the pay-per-view event.

I don't know why you guys aren't already doing this. America is really sh*tty at this whole Capitalist thing.
Naturally, we're waiting until we can build some kind of Matrix-like system. That way, the death matches can be done in impossible locales for viewer enjoyment without the ridiculous costs of actually transporting inmates to those locales.

Then, the winner gets released into the Matrix, only thinking he's free.
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#33 May 17 2012 at 5:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
"Okay, I'm keeping Keith Richards in my basement. Tell me when I can let him out - he's way expensive to keep."

$75,000 a year!


Please, that wouldn't cover the booze.
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#34 May 17 2012 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Something like New York.
Best solution:

NSFW
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#35 May 17 2012 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Best solution:

NSFW


Precisely.
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#36 May 17 2012 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
"Okay, I'm keeping Keith Richards in my basement. Tell me when I can let him out - he's way expensive to keep."

$75,000 a year!


Pfft! He goes throw that much blow in a week. On the bright side, if he dies while in your custody, you can incinerate him and get 13 differint kinds of high by smoking his ashes.
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#37 May 17 2012 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
hold them where?

I want you to hold them between your knees.
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#38 May 17 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Rapists, though, no way. High recidivism and high chance of escalating to great bodily harm if they're thwarted or feel endangered. I don't even know why they're lumped in the same category.
This.
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#39 May 17 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Atomicflea wrote:
Samira wrote:
Rapists, though, no way. High recidivism and high chance of escalating to great bodily harm if they're thwarted or feel endangered. I don't even know why they're lumped in the same category.
This.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't rape usually stem from a pathological issue with the convict? A need to dominate and demean the other? I seriously doubt any stint in prison led them to respect women to any degree significant enough to prevent future rapes, which really just leaves you with the hope that time spent would temper their desire to commit the crime.

But since it's not a rational decision to rape someone, I really doubt that they'd stop to think about that when their urges were hitting breaking point.

[EDIT]

I realize quoting the way I did made this seem like a counter, which wasn't what I meant. This is an open question that I'm wondering because of those quotes.

Edited, May 17th 2012 12:08pm by idiggory
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#40 May 17 2012 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Beats me. In our yard, I guess or in the back of a truck. Somewhere where anarchists wouldn't be throwing them at her building.

Forget the stones; hide the pies!

Everything about that article is sublimely awesome.
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#41 May 17 2012 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Well and it also doesn't help when rapists only get 5 years in prison. It's bad enough that so few people who are even charged with rape get convicted, but they get slaps on the wrist too.
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#42 May 17 2012 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Beats me. In our yard, I guess or in the back of a truck. Somewhere where anarchists wouldn't be throwing them at her building.

Forget the stones; hide the pies!

Everything about that article is sublimely awesome.


I think you mean sub(key)limely awesome.
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#43Almalieque, Posted: May 17 2012 at 1:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Seems like the most obvious answer is to determine a cheaper way to house criminals.
#44 May 17 2012 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?
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#45 May 17 2012 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but isn't it more related to the medical care costs than the housing costs?


I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.
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#46 May 17 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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#47 May 18 2012 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.


This is a stunning insight. I'm blown away. This high level of conceptual thinking leads to dozens of breakthrough ideas. To wit:

Find ways to stop people from committing crimes.
Find ways to prevent death from aging.
Find ways to make everyone happy, all the time.
Find ways to change car exhaust into clouds of clean water that fly to drought stricken areas.

This is amazing. Have you contacted any university philosophy departments? Once Peter Singer and Bernard-Henri Lévy hear about it, they'll doubtless kill themselves in shame and disgrace.
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#48 May 18 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

I'm using that term inclusively. Maybe that was the wrong word to use. In other words, find ways to spend less on criminals as opposed to releasing criminals.


This is a stunning insight. I'm blown away. This high level of conceptual thinking leads to dozens of breakthrough ideas. To wit:

Find ways to stop people from committing crimes.
Find ways to prevent death from aging.
Find ways to make everyone happy, all the time.
Find ways to change car exhaust into clouds of clean water that fly to drought stricken areas.

This is amazing. Have you contacted any university philosophy departments? Once Peter Singer and Bernard-Henri Lévy hear about it, they'll doubtless kill themselves in shame and disgrace.
Never change, you sublime ass.
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#49Almalieque, Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sounds like ignorant laziness to me. It's called budget cuts. I don't have to know anything about the prison system to know that it isn't necessary to spend $15 million dollars a year on these criminals. If you think otherwise, then it's people like you that create these problems.
#50 May 18 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Responding to him won't be as fun as you think it will, so just ignore him Smash.
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#51 May 18 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some people have to learn the hard way.
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