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Obama comes out in support of *** marriage...Follow

#1 May 09 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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...way to balls up! Obama says same-*** marriage should be legal

Nexa
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#2 May 09 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Woo election year statements!
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#3 May 09 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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hahaha, oh fox news: OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

It's like the Onion.

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#4 May 09 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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Nexa wrote:
hahaha, oh fox news: OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

It's like the Onion.

Nexa
If only they had a clip of him windsurfing.
#5 May 09 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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This news made my day.
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#6 May 09 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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"Obama" you say, eh? I may have to check this chap out.
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#7 May 09 2012 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was wondering if this was coming, or if Grandpa Joe was just letting his mind wander off-message again this past weekend.

Good on you, Obama. Now if only his track record of delivering on election-year promises was slightly better (see: Bay, Guantanamo).
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#8 May 09 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
This news made my day.
I know my day was boring, but ****.
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#9 May 09 2012 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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He "ended" the Iraq thing. I have no idea what the current situation is like over there, but that was what was promised. Healthcare reform turned out to be a fiasco, he extended the Patriot Act and put that new thing into place that allows for indefinite detention. I'm not sold.
#10 May 09 2012 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
(see: Bay, Guantanamo).

(see: Congress)
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#11 May 09 2012 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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"It's not my fault I made promises I couldn't keep" isn't exactly a resounding excuse.
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#12 May 09 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: laugh
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#13 May 09 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
(see: Bay, Guantanamo).

(see: Congress)


Did you mean the Congress the Democrats had control of for the first 2 years of his presidency, or was this some fictional Congress you imagined up as being anti-Obama?
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#14 May 09 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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When you learn more about Congress, let me know Smiley: laugh
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#15 May 09 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Even when all 100 members of the Senate actually sort of agree on something, they'll split themselves down party lines half the time simply because they have a pathological inability to admit the other guy might be right.
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#16 May 09 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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When you learn more about Congress, let me know Smiley: laugh


catwho wrote:
Even when all 100 members of the Senate actually sort of agree on something, they'll split themselves down party lines half the time simply because they have a pathological inability to admit the other guy might be right.


You mean the Senate which is STILL controlled by the Democrats?

Or are you and Jophiel somehow backhandedly implying that not all of the Democrats in Congress actually support the Democrat currently serving as President. Perish the thought!!!
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#17 May 09 2012 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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Does a super majority support the president 100% of the time? I hope not. If I wanted unthinking partisan loyalty, I'd vote Republican.
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#18 May 09 2012 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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Or be a Marine.
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#19 May 09 2012 at 5:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Long overdue, and glad that he was able to have that personal growth. Not sure how much he can do at the executive level, if anything. A federal law would have to be passed by Congress, and I know we're not there yet. I hope when we do get there that there is a sympathetic President in office who won't veto. So much needs to line up to give people a right that they should have never been denied in the first place.
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#20 May 09 2012 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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'Bout damned time. I wonder if they were using Biden's coming out as a way of 'testing the waters'?
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#21 May 09 2012 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent
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What a surprise! It's almost like no one predicted this like 5 years ago or anything. I mean, what are the odds that Obama would insist he holds one position when he wants to avoid political conflict over it and instead focus on the economic record of the opposing party, but then switches to the exact opposite position when he's desperate for an issue, any issue to be the focus instead of his massively horrible economic record. Shocking I say. Shocking!


Partisan sniping aside, I understand why he felt had to make this move, but I don't think it's a good one. The folks he appeases with this were going to vote for him anyway. But there are a lot of Dem voters who aren't as on board with the whole *** marriage thing and most of them were folks he was in danger of losing already (mostly blue collar workers who've been hit hard economically as it is). This could tip a lot of votes away from him with little or no gain. I'm just not sure how much value they'll really get by putting this issue on the table. Sure, they get to zero in on the most extreme responses from the right and paint the GOP as *** haters, but they do that already. The concern is that now they'll be applying that label to folks who might otherwise have voted for them.

Just seems like this is the wrong issue and the wrong time to pull a "you're either with us or against us" move.
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#22 May 09 2012 at 7:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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What a surprise! Gbaji thinks this was a terrible move for Obama. No one could have predicted that, not even five years ago...
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#23 May 09 2012 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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No one could have predicted that, not even five years ago...
Pretty sure there's a cave painting of it somewhere.
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#24 May 09 2012 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shocking!
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#25 May 09 2012 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I think this will excite the base a bit. By base, I mean all those college kids he had out stomping around for him in 07/08. This should level into more of a positive than a negative with more fundraising and a higher excitement level than the recent "ho-hum" attitude. Especially when Romney inserts his foot in his mouth by stating he supports DOMA. I would think due to previous arguments gbaji, you almost have to support Obama at the poll due to Mittens clearly overstepping his bounds in what the right views as a states issue.
#26 May 09 2012 at 9:18 PM Rating: Default
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I think this will excite the base a bit. By base, I mean all those college kids he had out stomping around for him in 07/08. This should level into more of a positive than a negative with more fundraising and a higher excitement level than the recent "ho-hum" attitude. Especially when Romney inserts his foot in his mouth by stating he supports DOMA.


I agree that this is what they're trying to do. I'm just not sure that it'll work. I really don't think that Obama's getting a relatively ho-hum attitude from college students this time around because he failed to do enough to push *** marriage forward. Or at least I don't think that's enough of the reason to increase their support at the polls anywhere near the number he'll lose among blue collar working class Dems. Gaining a small amount of excitement among a group that has one of the lowest voter turnout rates in return for alienating another group that has a much higher rate seems like a bad idea.

Maybe the Obama administration is seeing much more alarming numbers than I think though. I just kinda see this as a desperation move. To do so this early in the election process seems really strange. But it's not like I'm a political operative or anything, so what do I know?

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I would think due to previous arguments gbaji, you almost have to support Obama at the poll due to Mittens clearly overstepping his bounds in what the right views as a states issue.


Really? Do you have any clue how old and tired the whole "You should support someone whose policies you disagree with nearly 100% because the guy in your own party kinda sorta did something this one time that you might not agree with 100%"? It's really pretty moronic. Doubly so when I actually have no clue which thing you're trying to claim I should disagree with Romney on in the first place.

Care to elaborate?

Edited, May 9th 2012 8:19pm by gbaji
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#27 May 09 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm beginning to think that there are a lot of things that neither the feds NOR the states really have jurisdiction over (e.g. my ovaries.) **** states rights, what about human rights?
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#28 May 09 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Gaining a small amount of excitement among a group that has one of the lowest voter turnout rates in return for alienating another group that has a much higher rate seems like a bad idea.

It's a hedge against the economy. It's a high interest issue that isn't particular bad for either candidate to discuss. If voter impressions of our economic state are positive closer to the elections, he'd like to steer the discussion that way. If voter impressions are negative, he'll be offering up other topics such as *** marriage as alternatives to help define the race. It's an issue conservatives could strongly latch on to and allow to dominate the news cycle.
#29 May 09 2012 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tweet I got wrote:
NYT: Pollster Andrew Kohut of nonpartisan Pew Research Ctr says nationwide,a plurality of swing voters favors same-*** marriage 47%-39%.

Working class Democrats aren't honestly going to care about this. They'll care about the direction the economy is headed, the unemployment rate and potentially things like who wants to cut their benefits or attack their union status. The Democratic-voting group most opposed to *** marriage is African Americans and Obama will still take them over 9:1 versus Romney. Voting wise, I expect it'll be a wash. Donation-wise, it'll appeal to progressives and the "elite" which I expect is more why it happened than an expectation for big returns in the voting booth.
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#30 May 10 2012 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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#31 May 10 2012 at 6:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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I salute your courageous use of such homoerotic imagery.
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#32 May 10 2012 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Supposedly (heard on radio), the campaign received over a million dollars in donations within 90 minutes of Obama's statement so there's something.
Paskil wrote:
you almost have to support Obama at the poll due to Mittens clearly overstepping his bounds in what the right views as a states issue.

Gbaji also contorts himself to avoid admitting that Romney would, in Romney's own words, be "delighted" and think it "terrific" to sign a federal ban on all abortions. Gbaji's interest in state's rights begins and ends with what which issues Gbaji supports and which he doesn't.
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#33 May 10 2012 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
RaiseIII wrote:
A drowning man grabs even the tip of a sword.



I salute your courageous use of such homoerotic imagery.


Here-in Timelordwho fails to make a joke relating the title Nixnot: "Sword-swallower" and the phrase said by Nixnot: "S-word, swallow!" referring to an unfortunate incident with a bird.
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#34 May 10 2012 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nexa wrote:

To be perfectly clear, the president said "At a certain point, I've just concluded, that for me, personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-*** couples should be able to get married."

I'm not sure that I would call this a resolute statement of anything.

On the other hand, the presumptive Republican nominee's response, "I've had the same position I've had since, well, since I ran for office," doesn't exactly stoke warm fuzzies.
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#35 May 10 2012 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
On the other hand, the presumptive Republican nominee's response, "I've had the same position I've had since, well, since I ran for office," doesn't exactly stoke warm fuzzies.


At least Obama now favors your right to have those warm fuzzies stoked by whomever you choose.
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#36 May 10 2012 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's a statement of what he personally thinks. He also said it should be a state issue and didn't indicate that he was going to push to legalize it or amend the Constitution or anything.

I think it'll be good for some extra checks at Clooney's house and be old news by November. The only ones who'll be "swayed" by it are those who already hold strong opinions and weren't going to cross aisles no matter what.
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#37 May 10 2012 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Gbaji also contorts himself to avoid admitting that Romney would, in Romney's own words, be "delighted" and think it "terrific" to sign a federal ban on all abortions. Gbaji's interest in state's rights begins and ends with what which issues Gbaji supports and which he doesn't.
States' rights have been used to cover up such a multitude of crap over the years that I can't help but shrug. Is anyone really making this their pivotal issue?
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#38 May 10 2012 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Do you have any clue how old and tired the whole "You should support someone whose policies you disagree with nearly 100% because the guy in your own party kinda sorta did something this one time that you might not agree with 100%"? It's really pretty moronic.
"You should support someone no matter what their policies are 100% of the time because they're with the political label you place on yourself" is clearly the only intelligent way to look at candidates.
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#39 May 10 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Now, I don't know anything about government, but this whole states rights thing confuses me. How can states have laws that contradict each other, and even at the federal level? That seems to weaken the whole national identity and continuity. Like marijuana. How can it be legal in one state, then the Feds come in and bust legal operations? How does it make sense to make SSM legal in some states, but not recognized in others, or even nationally?
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#40 May 10 2012 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I genuinely do not understand why *** marriage is even being debated. Didn't we go through this second-class citizen ******** with black people already? What's to debate? *** citizens are still citizens and shouldn't be treated any differently, yet here we are hashing out issues I thought our country had already resolved decades ago.
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#41 May 10 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:
I genuinely do not understand why *** marriage is even being debated. Didn't we go through this second-class citizen bullsh*t with black people already? What's to debate? *** citizens are still citizens and shouldn't be treated any differently, yet here we are hashing out issues I thought our country had already resolved decades ago.

My best understanding of the opposition to "*** marriage" is the use of the term "marriage", which has religious meaning in addition to the legal definition. I'll bet that if you asked people if they supported "civil unions" for *** couples, the response would be much more favorable than asking if they supported "*** marriage."

But then we've already had 50-page threads debating this.
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#42 May 10 2012 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Now, I don't know anything about government, but this whole states rights thing confuses me. How can states have laws that contradict each other, and even at the federal level? That seems to weaken the whole national identity and continuity. Like marijuana. How can it be legal in one state, then the Feds come in and bust legal operations? How does it make sense to make SSM legal in some states, but not recognized in others, or even nationally?

Federal law trumps state law which is why the feds can do drug busts even if the state doesn't actively arrest/prosecute for it. There is no overarching federal marriage law that defines it for the states (DOMA only applies to federal benefits and definitions) and states have been broadly left to define definitions, legal age, etc for themselves.
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#43 May 10 2012 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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An NBC poll from March asked if people would be more/less likely to vote for a candidate who supported SSM. 25% More so, 20% Less so, remainder no difference.

I suspect most of that 25/20 comes from people who are already strongly for/against the issue and saying you'd be 10% more likely to vote for someone you were 99% likely to vote for anyway isn't especially earth-shattering.

Edited, May 10th 2012 10:08am by Jophiel
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#44 May 10 2012 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
I genuinely do not understand why *** marriage is even being debated. Didn't we go through this second-class citizen bullsh*t with black people already? What's to debate? *** citizens are still citizens and shouldn't be treated any differently, yet here we are hashing out issues I thought our country had already resolved decades ago.

My best understanding of the opposition to "*** marriage" is the use of the term "marriage", which has religious meaning in addition to the legal definition. I'll bet that if you asked people if they supported "civil unions" for *** couples, the response would be much more favorable than asking if they supported "*** marriage."

But then we've already had 50-page threads debating this.

My best understanding of the opposition to "*** marriage" is the "***" part. Some folks just don't like homosexual activity. They'll use any multitude of reasons for it: religion, tradition, word usage, moral decay; but in the end it's usually "I find homosexuality icky and don't want it around or accepted in any way, shape, or form."
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#45 May 10 2012 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Demea wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
I genuinely do not understand why *** marriage is even being debated. Didn't we go through this second-class citizen bullsh*t with black people already? What's to debate? *** citizens are still citizens and shouldn't be treated any differently, yet here we are hashing out issues I thought our country had already resolved decades ago.

My best understanding of the opposition to "*** marriage" is the use of the term "marriage", which has religious meaning in addition to the legal definition. I'll bet that if you asked people if they supported "civil unions" for *** couples, the response would be much more favorable than asking if they supported "*** marriage."

But then we've already had 50-page threads debating this.

My best understanding of the opposition to "*** marriage" is the "***" part. Some folks just don't like homosexual activity. They'll use any multitude of reasons for it: religion, tradition, word usage, moral decay; but in the end it's usually "I find homosexuality icky and don't want it around or accepted in any way, shape, or form."

Even that's just a little too broad. They don't mind lesbians, especially the hot kind. They can do whatever they want. It's the icky men who put ***** in their mouths that really just turn stomachs.
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#46 May 10 2012 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Nexa wrote:

To be perfectly clear, the president said "At a certain point, I've just concluded, that for me, personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-*** couples should be able to get married I just got trolled by Biden."

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#48 May 10 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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#49 May 10 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Romney says the definition of marriage hasn't changed for over 3,000 years.

Andrew Sullivan points out that, a century ago, Romney's great-grandparents were fleeing to Mexico to escape an oppressive US government which disagreed with the (then) Romney definition of marriage: that it's between a man and a woman and a woman and a woman and a woman and a woman and a...

Edited, May 10th 2012 11:42am by Jophiel
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#50 May 10 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Romney says the definition of marriage hasn't changed for over 3,000 years.

Andrew Sullivan points out that, a century ago, Romney's great-grandparents were fleeing to Mexico to escape an oppressive US government which disagreed with the (then) Romney definition of marriage: that it's between a man and a woman and a woman and a woman and a woman and a woman and a...

Edited, May 10th 2012 11:42am by Jophiel

Not to be the pedant, but all of those marriages were between 1 man and 1 woman. The 1 man simply had several instances saved.
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#51 May 10 2012 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not to be the pedant, but all of those marriages were between 1 man and 1 woman. The 1 man simply had several instances saved.

If that's what makes you feel better Smiley: laugh
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