Private sector has officially recoveredFollow

Actually, I don't know that. The data I've seen doesn't explicitly state that there are fewer total K-12 teachers employed in the US today than there were in Jan 2009.



Not "as well as", the link in the OP simply says "public-sector jobs". I don't see a break down of which areas of the public sector have X jobs compared to Y jobs back when. Do you? So how about we not make assumptions about the data?



The point of contention is when someone reads something that simply says "There are X number fewer public sector jobs today than in 2009", and then states that the jobs that were lost were teachers, firefighters, police, and construction workers (although that last one feels kinda tossed in as well). I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask for actual data regarding the total number of teachers, firefighters, and police employed today versus back then. Since that would be relevant in terms of determining whether the shrinking of the public sector (which I happen to agree with) is actually most affecting teachers and firefighters and cops, or whether it's most affecting mid level bureaucrats, superfluous civil servants, or represent cuts in wasteful projects which perhaps should not have existed in the first place.



I said that they were "affected". But so has the private sector jobs. I know lots of people who lost their jobs and had to get another one, or who weren't able to transfer to a better paying position, or had their wages frozen, reduced bonuses, etc. The OP is not saying that no one in the private sector was "affected". It's saying that 4.2 million jobs were lost, but then 4.2 million new jobs were created and concludes that this means that the private sector has recovered.

So... If we focus just on say teachers, we could measure whether they are still being adversely affected using the same methodology, right? So let's just count the total number of teaching jobs back then and compare it to right now and see if they are higher, lower, or the same. Then we're measuring both groups by the same yardstick. If we fail to do this, then we're playing a bait and switch game and are being dishonest.


Do you honestly know what the total number of employed teachers in the US is right now compared to 3.5 years ago? If you don't, then you can't actually say that we've lost teacher jobs, can you? It certainly may be true, but absent numbers, forgive me for not just accepting all the people who say this, but who are also just assuming without looking at the numbers either. Certainly, it's ridiculous to measure one set by one method, and another by a different one, and then think we're making some kind of rational point.

Edited, May 7th 2012 3:01pm by gbaji

You obviously haven't driven from Corvallis to Newport in the last few years on Hwy 20 then. Maybe someday they'll get it right.

I'd say creative math at the very least.

Corvallis? Newport? Everyone knows no one in Multnomah county cares about the rest of the state.

Still will take it over N. Seattle roads though... *shiver*

And yet, you prefaced those numbers with the statement that "Another article gave clearer numbers from 2010" right in the midst of a conversation about the number of teachers *actually* laid off. So either you didn't realize that receiving a pink slip and actually being laid off are not the same thing *or* you were being deliberately misleading with your response. The numbers you choose to quote are not "clearer numbers (of teacher layoffs) for 2010" as you claimed.

Edited, May 8th 2012 3:55pm by gbaji

Corvallis? What is this Corvallis you speak of? Everyone knows Eugene is the only college town in Oregon worth mentioning.

You and your liberal war on religion.

You want drama? Switch sides for a week and argue the conservative side of every discussion. That would cause some drama.

I'd say we could have Gbaji argue the liberal side, but he's already hard enough to understand when he's arguing for things he actually believes. My head is threatening to explode just thinking about him trying to argue the liberal side of anything.

Edited, May 9th 2012 10:55am by Bigdaddyjug

Yeah, I know. Read the rest of my post.

College...

The important thing about Eugene is that it's a really long drive from anywhere.

It's not too far from the Bandon Dunes golf complex, which is the only thing in Oregon that matters to me.