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What I meant was that I don't find it credible as an actual society. I appreciate that could have been clearer.
Oh, that's true. For one thing, Huxley was unaware of things like DNA and genes, and it turns out that subliminal/subconscious training is not quite as good as they thought it was back then. They thought that the natal environment was all nuture, when in reality nature plays too large a part of it to effectively control and train large swaths of the population.
As vapid and shallow as most Americans today are, they still prize freedom above all other things, and would not let themselves be led to that point.
(Then again, both 1984 and Brave New World were set in England.)
As vapid and shallow as most Americans today are, they still prize freedom above all other things, and would not let themselves be led to that point.
(Then again, both 1984 and Brave New World were set in England.)
Quote:
As vapid and shallow as most Americans today are, they still prize freedom above all other things, and would not let themselves be led to that point.
Unless Rush says so.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
As vapid and shallow as most Americans today are, they still prize freedom above all other things, and would not let themselves be led to that point.
Unless Rush says so.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
As vapid and shallow as most Americans today are, they still prize freedom above all other things, and would not let themselves be led to that point.
Unless Rush says so.
Yeah, people are pretty willing to give up freedom for security when they're feeling threatened. But, even babies leave the womb sooner or later.
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~Kris Kristofferson
Edited, Apr 23rd 2012 6:00pm by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Honestly, if I was just to make an educated guess based strictly on my own gut feelings, I would say the human race continues to get more intelligent. I also think the rate of intelligence increase over time has sped up.
Or, on average people are getting smarter faster.
Or, on average people are getting smarter faster.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
But, even babies leave the womb sooner or later.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2012 9:34am by lolgaxe
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
But, even babies leave the womb sooner or later.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2012 9:34am by lolgaxe
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Quote:
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~KK
FTFY.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~KK
FTFY.
thanksAlma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~KK
FTFY.
thanksCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in a Janis Joplin song first?
Nope, Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster wrote it, Roger Miller performed it first.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
lolgaxe wrote:
Nope, Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster wrote it, Roger Miller performed it first.
Damn, Kris Kristofferson is that old? Or is JJ just that much younger than I thought and she just seems older because she died so long ago?
Edit: Yep, on further review Kristofferson will turn 76 this year, 7 years older than Joplin would be. And Joplin will have been dead 42 years in October.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2012 12:40pm by Bigdaddyjug
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~KK
FTFY.
thanksCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in a Janis Joplin song first?
Kris Kristofferson wrote a lot of songs that others made famous.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~KK
FTFY.
thanksCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in a Janis Joplin song first?
Kris Kristofferson wrote a lot of songs that others made famous.
I've already been corrected once and admitted my musical noobiness!!!!!
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose...~KK
FTFY.
thanksCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in a Janis Joplin song first?
Kris Kristofferson wrote a lot of songs that others made famous.
I've already been corrected once and admitted my musical noobiness!!!!!
Eh, I made the initial boo-boo.
I'm listening this right now...
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
catwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I think the missing link to the issue is that Huxley's future didn't necessarily require that the people became less intelligent. Quite the opposite (for the most part). It was that with sufficient diversions provided and priorities reinforced, the very intelligent would accept authoritarian rule, and even argue for it strongly and passionately.
Uh, it totally did in Brave New World. 75% of the population had deliberately induced Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to keep them as Gammas, Deltas, or Epsilon Semi-Morons. Only 25% of the population was allowed to stay "average" (betas) or above average (alphas and alpha plus.)
It didn't "necessarily" require it though. The people who were not artificially made less intelligent were just as conditioned to accept the world around them. I wasn't speaking just of the actual book and the details in it, but the concept of controlling the population via granted pleasures and diversions (and a healthy dose of conditioning) rather than via fear, force, and punishment. We were discussing Orwell vs Huxley, right?
Kavekk wrote:
What I meant was that I don't find it credible as an actual society. I appreciate that could have been clearer.
Exactly as written? Maybe not. But there's pretty strong evidence that the sorts of social techniques used in the book are far more effective at controlling populations in wealthier western nations than the more Orwellian ones. We do use media to influence people's opinions on things. We use advertising to influence their decisions. We use PSA campaigns to influence how they think about certain issues over time. There are a number of examples of social concepts that have shifted pretty radially just in the last few generations which can be traced to these sorts of influences. Opinions towards smoking is just one really obvious example. There are others.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
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