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A Look @ LookismFollow

#1 Apr 18 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I got an advertising email attempting to sell me access to an audio seminar titled Is Lookism Illegal? Appearance Discrimination at Work

Here's the seminar description:
Quote:
More and more frequently, the argument is made that there should be a law against 'lookism,' or appearance discrimination, in the workplace. This live audio conference will explore whether appearance discrimination is a significant problem, which laws already address it, and how a law might be written to outlaw it specifically. This program will better equip managers and human resources professionals to understand what an employer may lawfully require regarding employees' appearance, such as dress codes and grooming requirements and prohibitions against visible piercings and tattoos, to what extent beards and religious dress must be accommodated, and how to avoid hiring discrimination claims based on appearance.


Lol, should there be a law against lookism or are the current discrimination laws sufficient?

Can bias based on visual appearance be legislated out of the workplace? This seminar seems focused on hiring, but can you imagine what it could mean to be able to claim lookism in the workplace based on a pimple or a bad hair day or sweaty armpits?

Should there be laws against smellism or hearism?

Do you think anyone will pay $209.00 (US) to listen to this audio-seminar (visuals could lead to Lookism)?










Edited, Apr 18th 2012 5:49pm by Elinda
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#2 Apr 18 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Do you think anyone will pay $209.00 (US) to listen to this audio-seminar (visuals could lead to Lookism)?
Fat ugly dumb people who don't understand just how stupid a concept as "Self Help" publications really are.
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#3 Apr 18 2012 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do you think anyone will pay $209.00 (US) to listen to this audio-seminar (visuals could lead to Lookism)?
Fat ugly dumb people who don't understand just how stupid a concept as "Self Help" publications really are.

Fat and ugly are lookist! Dumb is dumb.
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#4 Apr 18 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kinda interesting. I do think that there are some occasions where an employers do themselves a disservice by not considering people because they've got weird piercings, hair, or tats. Particularly so when their appearance has no effect on the company's ability to do its job. I do understand the other side of things, where a company's image might be important.

Also, I suppose there's a difference between things that we can reasonably control about ourselves (like piercings and hair, which are pretty darn easy to remove/change), and our physical form.

Is it something we really need legislation for? Dunno about that. Seems like things are loosening up fairly quickly on their own as far as workplace appearance goes, to me. Though I work in NYC, and we're apparently the Sodom to San Fran's Gomorrah, according to the varus's of the world. I'd love to see the standards for appearance loosen up more...things are so much more interesting when people are free to dress as bizarrely as they'd like. Smiley: grin

Edited, Apr 18th 2012 10:53am by Eske
#5 Apr 18 2012 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Given the problems with discrimination against groups that already have legal protection I don't see those with stinky armpits or Elvis tattoos achieving equality anytime soon.

Seminar sounds like a great way to make money off of clueless or paranoid management types though. Smiley: nod
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#6 Apr 18 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I recently heard this story on the radio.

For people who don't want to click the link: a Texas hospital has instituted a hiring ban on obese people, claiming that obese people do not fit a "representational image or specific mental projection of the job of a healthcare professional."

The hospital also claims that this is part of a personal appearance policy.

So far, the law has not been deemed illegal. It is worth noting that morbidly obese people are protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

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#7 Apr 18 2012 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Inasmuch as visible personal expressions (piercings, tattoos, etc.) are indicative of personality traits, I don't see much of an issue with employers setting requirements for potential hires. It's akin to requiring a bachelor's degree for certain positions: possession of one doesn't automatically imply the ability to perform specific job duties, but it does correlate to the ability and willingness to put forth the effort to obtain it. And last time I checked, "educationism" was not a recognized form of discrimination.
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#8 Apr 18 2012 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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I've read your post several times now, Demea, and I'm not sure what you are saying. Which I'm sure is at least partly because I was out of coffee this morning.
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#9 Apr 18 2012 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Inasmuch as visible personal expressions (piercings, tattoos, etc.) are indicative of personality traits, I don't see much of an issue with employers setting requirements for potential hires.


They could be considered unprofessional, like jeans or t-shirts, and I imagine a dress code might allow or disallow them, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any correlation between piercings/tattoos and job performance.

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#10 Apr 18 2012 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I've read your post several times now, Demea, and I'm not sure what you are saying. Which I'm sure is at least partly because I was out of coffee this morning.

How is it you're able to type at all?
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#11 Apr 18 2012 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think that if a position requires a person to project an appearance of professionalism, then they can cite the need to hire someone that cleans up well.

Consider the difference between inside sales and outside sales. Inside sales = sitting in a call center talking with people you'll probably never see. I had green hair at one point when I was doing this. Outside sales = going door to door, meeting clients, shaking hands, going to lunches, etc. For the latter, if you have green hair and you're trying to sell medical equipment, it probably isn't going to work.

Our big clients, which are medical offices, have a fitness requirement but it has nothing to do with hiring. Everyone is required to wear a pedometer and walk a minimum number of steps a day depending on their fitness level (can be achieved by running, jogging, however someone wants.) Those who achieve their fitness goals over a certain period of months get a discount on their insurance.
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#12 Apr 18 2012 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I recently heard this story on the radio.

For people who don't want to click the link: a Texas hospital has instituted a hiring ban on obese people, claiming that obese people do not fit a "representational image or specific mental projection of the job of a healthcare professional."

The hospital also claims that this is part of a personal appearance policy.

So far, the law has not been deemed illegal. It is worth noting that morbidly obese people are protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act.


The link is being long in loading. Does the hospital weigh potential hires to see if they fall into the obese range?

What if you get hired when not obese then get obese, can they fire you?

Do they also not hire other people that might engage in unhealthy activities like skateboarding, suntanning, eating at mickeyD's, or playing video games?

Weight seems so random. Obesity is usually an outcome of over-eating but not always...and people who over-eat or eat badly aren't always obese.
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#13 Apr 18 2012 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Demea wrote:
Inasmuch as visible personal expressions (piercings, tattoos, etc.) are indicative of personality traits, I don't see much of an issue with employers setting requirements for potential hires.


They could be considered unprofessional, like jeans or t-shirts, and I imagine a dress code might allow or disallow them, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any correlation between piercings/tattoos and job performance.

How do jeans or t-shirts affect job performance? The only way I can see those making an impact on you is in the eyes of your customers and whatever perceptions they may have about jeans or t-shirts are likely similar for piercings and tattoos.
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#14 Apr 18 2012 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Do they also not hire other people that might engage in unhealthy activities like skateboarding, suntanning, eating at mickeyD's, or playing video games?
Since when is skateboarding or playing video games unhealthy? ****, skateboarding is a physical activity.
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#15 Apr 18 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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You simply can't have ridiculous activist rhetoric without some logical fallacy.
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#16 Apr 18 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do they also not hire other people that might engage in unhealthy activities like skateboarding, suntanning, eating at mickeyD's, or playing video games?
Since when is skateboarding or playing video games unhealthy? ****, skateboarding is a physical activity.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a fat skateboarder, come to think of it. Huh.

Edited, Apr 18th 2012 11:54am by Eske
#17 Apr 18 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do they also not hire other people that might engage in unhealthy activities like skateboarding, suntanning, eating at mickeyD's, or playing video games?
Since when is skateboarding or playing video games unhealthy? ****, skateboarding is a physical activity.
Since when is eating unhealthy? Skateboarding causes lots of injuries, and playing video games is sedentary and makes you violent. Also video-game players are notorious consumers of junk food and they're often spreading the *** and they're alcoholics too. Gamers are just bad all around. I'd not blame a company for screening them out.

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#18 Apr 18 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do they also not hire other people that might engage in unhealthy activities like skateboarding, suntanning, eating at mickeyD's, or playing video games?
Since when is skateboarding or playing video games unhealthy? ****, skateboarding is a physical activity.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a fat skateboarder, come to think of it. Huh.

Edited, Apr 18th 2012 11:54am by Eske

Is it about fat? Then it's lookism. The hospital claims it's about being healthy. Well you go find a group of hard-core skateboarders and I bet at least one of them will be sporting a cast, a sling, crutches or bandages.
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#19 Apr 18 2012 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
[Well you go find a group of hard-core skateboarders and I bet at least one of them will be sporting a cast, a sling, crutches or bandages.
And otherwise, be in better shape than probably 85% of the population.
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#20 Apr 18 2012 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
The hospital claims it's about being healthy.
No it doesn't.
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#21 Apr 18 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
[Well you go find a group of hard-core skateboarders and I bet at least one of them will be sporting a cast, a sling, crutches or bandages.
And otherwise, be in better shape than probably 85% of the population.

What do you mean by better shape?

If you're an nurse in a hospital do you think you could do your job better with a twisted ankle or a big ****?



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#22 Apr 18 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
The hospital claims it's about being healthy.
No it doesn't.

You're right I misread bigdaddys post. The hospital admits it's all about looks. Hah. Wonder if they do lots of plastic surgery.



Edited, Apr 18th 2012 6:10pm by Elinda
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#23 Apr 18 2012 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
If you're an nurse in a hospital do you think you could do your job better with a twisted ankle or a big ****?
Twisted ankle goes away after two days. One if you actually do something for it. And, you know, much easier to take health advice from someone with a twisted ankle than someone that has to walk sideways through doors.
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#24 Apr 18 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
[Well you go find a group of hard-core skateboarders and I bet at least one of them will be sporting a cast, a sling, crutches or bandages.
And otherwise, be in better shape than probably 85% of the population.

I'm assuming there is a study that both defines 'better shape' and provides reliable data?

What about fat kids that skateboard, are they in better shape than fat kids that don't skateboard or are they in better shape than skinny kids that don't skateboard?
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#25 Apr 18 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If you're an nurse in a hospital do you think you could do your job better with a twisted ankle or a big ****?
Twisted ankle goes away after two days. One if you actually do something for it. And, you know, much easier to take health advice from someone with a twisted ankle than someone that has to walk sideways through doors.

I doubt everyone in the medical field. Have you seen the diets of most doctors?

Not good. Smiley: disappointed
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#26 Apr 18 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Elinda wrote:
[Well you go find a group of hard-core skateboarders and I bet at least one of them will be sporting a cast, a sling, crutches or bandages.
And otherwise, be in better shape than probably 85% of the population.

I'm assuming there is a study that both defines 'better shape' and provides reliable data?

What about fat kids that skateboard, are they in better shape than fat kids that don't skateboard or are they in better shape than skinny kids that don't skateboard?


Skateboarders smoke more pot. That helps them keep the weight off.
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