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#27 Apr 17 2012 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Demea wrote:
The real question is whether or not the school policy is appropriate. Realistically, probably not; as a legal protection, probably.
Is there, where if I were an American conservative, I'd start shouting about Tort Reform?
You'd also need to lament the deterioration of the atomic family unit and talk about how Ayn Rand was totally right.

Edited, Apr 17th 2012 12:54pm by Demea
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#28 Apr 17 2012 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not the job of the police to discipline children. That being said it seems obvious that the child is lacking discipline in general, calling the police was a bit much. The police handcuffing her and removing her from the school then placing her in a cell, while still handcuffed is ******* insane.
Parents are at fault.
Schools should be better equipped with trained staff to deal with problem children.
Police should not be anywhere near the situation.
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#29 Apr 17 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Peimei wrote:
It's not the job of the police to discipline children. That being said it seems obvious that the child is lacking discipline in general, calling the police was a bit much. The police handcuffing her and removing her from the school then placing her in a cell, while still handcuffed is @#%^ing insane.
Parents are at fault.
Schools should be better equipped with trained staff to deal with problem children.
Police should not be anywhere near the situation.
Just wait til the girl gets her first PMS.
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#30 Apr 17 2012 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Peimei wrote:
It's not the job of the police to discipline children. That being said it seems obvious that the child is lacking discipline in general, calling the police was a bit much. The police handcuffing her and removing her from the school then placing her in a cell, while still handcuffed is @#%^ing insane.
Parents are at fault.
Schools should be better equipped with trained staff to deal with problem children.
Police should not be anywhere near the situation.
Just wait til the girl gets her first PMS.
She'll probably drive a car into someone's house and severely injure an entire family, and the parents and bleeding hearts will all be outraged that she was charged for it because she was "just having a bad day."
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#31 Apr 17 2012 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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When I was about that age, my mother left me at the park next to the bank with some other parents, but forgot to tell me that she was going to the bank, even though her friends were watching me. I wandered off to the other side of the park, got confused and panicked when I couldn't find my my mother, freaked out and started crying in the middle of the parking lot, and had some nice police officers have to come "arrest" my hysterical self, seat belting me into the back of the police car.

My mother came out of the bank and had a conniption. Smiley: lol

It's standard operating procedure in Georgia to call the police in when a child is having a tantrum that could be injurious to itself or to others. The officers are also usually the ones giving us "stealing is bad" lectures in elementary school, and giving demos of handcuffs and stuffs.

Actually not a bad idea, it instills a semi-trust of law officials into us at an early age.

That was the only time I've ever been inside a police car, though.
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#32 Apr 17 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
That was the only time I've ever been inside a police car, though.

But not the only time you've been in handcuffs? Smiley: sly
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#33 Apr 17 2012 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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I think I had some toy ones once.

I fail the kink test Smiley: frown
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#34 Apr 17 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Peimei wrote:
It's not the job of the police to discipline children. That being said it seems obvious that the child is lacking discipline in general, calling the police was a bit much. The police handcuffing her and removing her from the school then placing her in a cell, while still handcuffed is @#%^ing insane.
Parents are at fault.
Schools should be better equipped with trained staff to deal with problem children.
Police should not be anywhere near the situation.
Just wait til the girl gets her first PMS.
She'll probably drive a car into someone's house and severely injure an entire family, and the parents and bleeding hearts will all be outraged that she was charged for it because she was "just having a bad day."
...or she could enter a nunnery. And when god questions her faith she can claim she was just having a bad day.


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#35 Apr 17 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
I think I had some toy ones once.

I fail the kink test Smiley: frown
They just use those fancy twist ties now anyways.


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#36 Apr 17 2012 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Updates from CNN:

Quote:
The six-year-old was initially charged as a juvenile with simple battery of a school teacher and criminal damage to property, but a police spokesman said at a news conference Tuesday the girl would not be charged due to her age.

Police have also notified the Department of Family and Children's Services about the incident.


Edited, Apr 17th 2012 12:43pm by someproteinguy
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#37 Apr 17 2012 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Outbursts of such a severe nature usually indicate some sort of mental instability or illness. I have no problem with the initial handling of the case as presented by the story. At the very worst, the kid needs help and the incident has brought that to light for all who are involved to recognize and take action. At the very least, a badly behaved child got an up front look at the criminal justice system well before her actions could have had a lasting impact on her life or the lives of others. Call it a blessing in disguise, a learning opportunity.
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#38 Apr 17 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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My sister nannies a family where the father is shy and retiring, the mother has straight out Aspergers, all the four kids have aspergers, and the 7 year old eldest is so bad he's tipping into the Autism range: the violent Autism range. But the mother cannot see it, or won't see it, or can't cope with seeing that her eldest son, is at fault for beating on other kids, violently slapping or punching adults, screaming tantrums and general rudeness. She can only see the other side of the coin, which is also true: her son is feeling awful, and tired, and put upon, and not coping. But she's so busy trying to soothe her eldest, she's not seeing or addressing the real damage he's doing to his younger siblings, other people's children, or the nasty behaviour he has towards adults that's just not going to be tolerated when he's older.

My sister is privileged in that the parents love and trust her, she's widely sought and generously paid. It helps a lot that the mother works from home so my sister is theoretically overseen, even if she's mostly not overlooked. They trust her disciplining methods, which include a loose wrist lock to lead him to a time-out room, the one pulled slap she delivered one of the times he punched her, and her flicking him with water (which he hates) when he's violent. When out she's had to bodily pick him up and carry him away from situations, which she won't be able to physically do much longer.

Teachers are much more hampered, I would imagine, by tight disciplinary rules and consciousness of paedophilia charges if they're on their own with a child. Maybe they can't trust a violently distraught child alone in Time-out, but can't spare two teachers to monitor her, or one teacher with a door open and a child determined to escape. Maybe if they have a struggling child in a temper tantrum they can't constrain her without either allowing the child to injure them, or choosing restraint holds that tip over into the "child-abuse" or "illegal physical discipline" range. It's true physical discipline of children used to be too harsh and very abusive. But we're in the stage where we're overcompensating for that by not letting teachers physically discipline out of control children, and ALSO not giving them the resources to give them considered, psychological tools to handle problems in a structured way. So turning to the police it is.

I was arrested and charged for shoplifting as a tween, and for my punishment was called back in and given a stern talking to about what was acceptable and not acceptable, from a senior officer in a room, and let off with a warning. It was effective in my case. Obviously I would prefer really well resourced schools rather than teachers having to resort to police. But the police need to be there as a last resort. Finally: funding schools at a state level REALLY helps equalise school resources.
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#39 Apr 18 2012 at 3:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think we should go back to letting schools paddle the kids. Nothing a good, solid spanking with a wooden paddle can't fix.
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#40 Apr 18 2012 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is being discussed on a parenting forum I frequent. general feeling is that this child has severe issues that are either ot being disclosed to the public, or the parents are refusing to acknolwedgte that this is not typical behavior. Someone brought up a good point that sometimes when you are trying to find out what is wrong with your child in regards to special needs, ALL documentation is good. And if it takes charging a 6 year old to have that documentation, it will ultimately help the child in the end. It's not like it's going to stay on her permanent adult record.

Also, there are guidelines involved when dealing with viloent kids, and at least in our area, if there is no adult around who can use the proper straining methods, police are called. It's a safety factor, pure and simple. Safety for the child, the teachers, the staff, etc. You cannot allow a violent anyone to be loose and throwing furniture around. Unfortunately, this kind of violence is not unheard of.

As a parent with a child with special needs, it sounds to me as if the parents are in complete denial about what's going on, and the news really spun this hard in the parents favor. And that doesn't do the child any good. In the end all, whatever is going to get this child help is what matters most. and it sounds like even a trip to downtown wasnt enough for these parents to wake up and wonder how many other 6 year olds have this happen to them Smiley: frown
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#41 Apr 18 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
I think we should go back to letting schools paddle the kids. Nothing a good, solid spanking with a wooden paddle can't fix.


A lot of area's in the US have abstinence only education.
#42 Apr 18 2012 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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DSD wrote:
As a parent with a child with special needs, it sounds to me as if the parents are in complete denial about what's going on, and the news really spun this hard in the parents favor.
Gotta get those ratings from the easily manipulated twits somehow. Smiley: schooled
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#43 Apr 18 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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DSD wrote:
It's not like it's going to stay on her permanent adult record.


I can't for certain say what the state of the internet will be in 10 years, but my guess is that when this little girls applies for jobs in the future that google will make sure that this incident is permanently recorded.
#44 Apr 18 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I think we should go back to letting schools paddle the kids. Nothing a good, solid spanking with a wooden paddle can't fix.


A lot of area's in the US have abstinence only education.
Improper use of apostrophes? That's a paddlin'.
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#45 Apr 18 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Guenny wrote:
DSD wrote:
It's not like it's going to stay on her permanent adult record.


I can't for certain say what the state of the internet will be in 10 years, but my guess is that when this little girls applies for jobs in the future that google will make sure that this incident is permanently recorded.

I honestly don't think that's going to be an issue. And if a future employer holds it against her for something she did at six, I have a feeling there would be legal discrimination ramifications. In essence, I don't think this would hold water. And again, if it's the only way to keep people safe, and to be a major wake up call that a child needs HELP, any documentation is good. It sucks it had to happen, but obviously they did not have properly trained special ed teachers available trained in safe detaining techniques, and the school did what it had to do. The police did as well. It just sucks that the parents still don't admit that this child needs help.
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#46 Apr 18 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure at least part of the reasoning behind calling the police in was to avoid the sh*tstorm that would occur if school workers had physically restrained the kid.

Edited, Apr 18th 2012 4:37pm by Spoonless
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#47 Apr 18 2012 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
I'm sure at least part of the reasoning behind calling the police in was to avoid the sh*tstorm that would occur if school workers had physically restrained the kid.


Yeah. CYA and policy IMO. The laws have shifted so far from the corporal punishment days. Teachers and administrators are pretty much not allowed to touch any of the children at all without subjecting themselves to lawsuit. That goes double for restraining an unruly child. Unfortunately, this means that they have to call the police to deal with situations which the schools used to be able to handle (unless the school has on campus security for just this purpose, which is usually only the case in special schools for troubled kids). And when the police show up, they have their own policies they have to follow.


As long as we don't allow the schools to deal with these situations themselves, we should not be surprised or shocked whenever one of these "OMG! They called the cops on a 6 year old" things happen.
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#48 Apr 18 2012 at 11:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is being discussed on a parenting forum I frequent. general feeling is that this child has severe issues that are either ot being disclosed to the public, or the parents are refusing to acknolwedgte that this is not typical behavior. Someone brought up a good point that sometimes when you are trying to find out what is wrong with your child in regards to special needs, ALL documentation is good. And if it takes charging a 6 year old to have that documentation, it will ultimately help the child in the end. It's not like it's going to stay on her permanent adult record.

Also, there are guidelines involved when dealing with viloent kids, and at least in our area, if there is no adult around who can use the proper straining methods, police are called. It's a safety factor, pure and simple. Safety for the child, the teachers, the staff, etc. You cannot allow a violent anyone to be loose and throwing furniture around. Unfortunately, this kind of violence is not unheard of.

As a parent with a child with special needs, it sounds to me as if the parents are in complete denial about what's going on, and the news really spun this hard in the parents favor. And that doesn't do the child any good. In the end all, whatever is going to get this child help is what matters most. and it sounds like even a trip to downtown wasnt enough for these parents to wake up and wonder how many other 6 year olds have this happen to them Smiley: frown


Just, for the love of all that's holy, do not have your own child arrested. Sure, you might think they'll learn a lesson, turns out that lesson will be that you, as parents, have to pay all court fees etc. This happened to my sister growing up, & on top of the court fees they had to pay for her to do some sort of after school program (that usually revolved around basketball.)

Total cost all said & done, in the late 90s mind you, just under $100K...
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#49 Apr 19 2012 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. CYA and policy IMO. The laws have shifted so far from the corporal punishment days. Teachers and administrators are pretty much not allowed to touch any of the children at all without subjecting themselves to lawsuit.


Nope. The conservative echo chamber has ginned up a lot of imaginary outrage about this, though, so I can see why drooling simpletons would think it was the case.


That goes double for restraining an unruly child. Unfortunately, this means that they have to call the police to deal with situations which the schools used to be able to handle (unless the school has on campus security for just this purpose, which is usually only the case in special schools for troubled kids).


Again, no. No school has a policy that staff can't restrain a child acting out. What a huge fucking sucker you'd have to be to buy that. Amazing. Anyway, the reality is much more likely that the staff who contacted police thought the child was too dangerous to restrain and didn't want to risk injury to themselves or her. Not because of liability, because they didn't want to get smashed in the face with a chair. I think perhaps you people without children forget how old six years is. A six year old could probably kill you fairly efficiently with a hatchet. They aren't toddlers.


And when the police show up, they have their own policies they have to follow.


Which is fine. Again, six years old isn't six months old. They should restrain an acting out child. They should take her to the hospital, obviously, as at six years, the child's brain literally hasn't developed sufficiently to comprehend most of what happens in a jail.


As long as we don't allow the schools to deal with these situations themselves, we should not be surprised or shocked whenever one of these "OMG! They called the cops on a 6 year old" things happen.


Yeah, no. As usual, everything actually can't be solved by some simple ******** thing that aligns with your worldview. Teachers in schools that allow corporal punishment still call police if they feel in danger. They should. Of course this situation happens so rarely anywhere (almost never) that police don't have protocols. They shouldn't need to. I'm sure some day, someone will be hit by a comet and some first responder will show up and not have a protocol. That will probably be a news story, too.

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#50 Apr 19 2012 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Schools should be better equipped with trained staff to deal with problem children.


With what budget? If teachers aren't equipped to handle a kid that's throwing crap around, then exactly how much extra staff do you think the average school has standing around waiting for problems to happen? Why do you think schools beg parents to volunteer to take up the slack in day to day classroom activities? Because they can't afford even the minimum staff, often.
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#51 Apr 19 2012 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Schools should come equipped WITH staffs to deal with problem children. Preferably ones with man-catchers on the end. Cheap and effective.
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