Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

When Kids Break the Law.....Follow

#52 Apr 19 2012 at 7:03 AM Rating: Excellent
******
43,630 posts
Or penguins with rulers.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#53 Apr 19 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
15,813 posts
Subjugated penguins, hmmm.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#54 Apr 19 2012 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
******
21,717 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Schools should come equipped WITH staffs to deal with problem children. Preferably ones with man-catchers on the end. Cheap and effective.


Staffs with man-catchers, or children with man-catchers? Choose your path wisely...
____________________________
R.I.P. Jessica M. 5/3/2010
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#55 Apr 19 2012 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Maybe schools could be staffed with children with man-catcher staffs.

Where's your God now, roid-raging six year old girl???
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#56 Apr 19 2012 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,045 posts
Staves.

Smiley: mad
____________________________
Almalieque wrote:
I'm biased against statistics

#57 Apr 19 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Demea wrote:
Staves.

Free Dictionary wrote:
staff 1 (stf)
n. pl. staffs or staves (stvz)
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#58 Apr 19 2012 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
****
6,470 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Free Dictionary wrote:
staff 1 (stf)
n. pl. staffs or staves (stvz)


Who does their pronunciation guides, and why does he hate vowels?
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#59 Apr 19 2012 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
He was raging the day they taught vowels in kindergarten and had to be arrested. Now the phrase "...and sometimes y" is hollow and empty to his soul.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#60 Apr 19 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
643 posts
Smasharoo wrote:

Yeah. CYA and policy IMO. The laws have shifted so far from the corporal punishment days. Teachers and administrators are pretty much not allowed to touch any of the children at all without subjecting themselves to lawsuit.


Nope. The conservative echo chamber has ginned up a lot of imaginary outrage about this, though, so I can see why drooling simpletons would think it was the case.


That goes double for restraining an unruly child. Unfortunately, this means that they have to call the police to deal with situations which the schools used to be able to handle (unless the school has on campus security for just this purpose, which is usually only the case in special schools for troubled kids).


Again, no. No school has a policy that staff can't restrain a child acting out. What a huge fucking sucker you'd have to be to buy that. Amazing. Anyway, the reality is much more likely that the staff who contacted police thought the child was too dangerous to restrain and didn't want to risk injury to themselves or her. Not because of liability, because they didn't want to get smashed in the face with a chair. I think perhaps you people without children forget how old six years is. A six year old could probably kill you fairly efficiently with a hatchet. They aren't toddlers.

Are you arguing this just because Gbaji made the original post? I have to ask what a teacher would use to restrain a 6 year old child? Only thing that comes to mind is to either lock them in a room or put them in a bear-hug. But physical contact would be a huge no-no in this day and age, especially with the child being a girl. In case you weren't aware, there are people out there who think school districts are one big lottery, hence the CYA actions.
#61 Apr 19 2012 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I have to ask what a teacher would use to restrain a 6 year old child?


My Mom, whom was a special Ed teacher in the 90s, learned all sorts of restraints & holds after a kid 'sperged out & bit her. She learned them on the taxpayers dime, too, since they were skills she needed to know to effectively deal with some of her Autistic students. While I'm sure a potential lawsuit was very much on the school districts minds, they also have to make sure their teachers are safe too, right?

I chalk this up to no one in the school district wanting to get their hands dirty, or no one on site was properly trained on how to safely restrain a child. They should fix that.
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the **** out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#62 Apr 20 2012 at 6:00 AM Rating: Default
Lunatic
******
29,290 posts

Are you arguing this just because Gbaji made the original post? I have to ask what a teacher would use to restrain a 6 year old child? Only thing that comes to mind is to either lock them in a room or put them in a bear-hug. But physical contact would be a huge no-no in this day and age, especially with the child being a girl. In case you weren't aware, there are people out there who think school districts are one big lottery, hence the CYA actions.


Horsesht. You're a fucking sucker. Alarmist news stories don't reflect reality, moron. In case you weren't aware, you know absolutely nothing about this subject matter. NOTHING. The useless drivel you pass off as being plausibly well informed among your peer group is fiction. Understand? Teachers aren't "afraid to ever touch students for fear of being sued". **** media construct. While we're here:

Strangers aren't driving around waiting to kidnap children. Your child is 10000 more likely to die in a car crash than to be kidnapped by a stranger.
CPR almost never works.
Hospital defibrillators work even less often.
The amount of children punished by "zero tolerance" rules in public schools for bringing a toy gun or drawing a picture of a sword, or whatever the **** the tune the idiot band is banging out this week, is roughly 1 in 1,000,000. You're 50 times more likely to be the parent of **** albino twins than for your kid to suffer this sort of punishment.
You won't be sued for negligence if you leave a skateboard on the stairs and an intruder injures himself on it during a home invasion.
No one "does their own stunts". Well, Jackie Chan, maybe.
Anti-Oxidants do nothing.
"Barefoot" running shoes correlate with a *much* higher rate of injury.
Forensic science is almost useless as an evidence gathering tool.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#63 Apr 20 2012 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,917 posts
As far as I know CPR has a 5% success rate. As far as I know there are instances of medical personnel or civilians working for up to hours to resuscitate drowned or otherwise dead people. In the cases where brain injury is highly likely, I don't know whether that's a good thing. But in the cases of very cold water or other bodily preservatives, I really respect the people who can go at a corpse for more than a few minutes, for that magic 5% chance of reviving them and saving their life.
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#64 Apr 20 2012 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
643 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
Horsesht. You're a fucking sucker. Alarmist news stories don't reflect reality, moron. In case you weren't aware, you know absolutely nothing about this subject matter. NOTHING. The useless drivel you pass off as being plausibly well informed among your peer group is fiction. Understand? Teachers aren't "afraid to ever touch students for fear of being sued". Bullsh*t media construct. While we're here:

Good to know. I'll make sure to pass this along to my brother (a teacher) that his district has the wrong information and he can run around putting his hands on his students because lawsuits don't happen and are just made up to get ratings.
#65 Apr 20 2012 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
15,813 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Schools should come equipped WITH staffs to deal with problem children. Preferably ones with man-catchers on the end. Cheap and effective.
Avoid frivolous lawsuits. Child-catchers are made specially for school-kids - they leave no marks and are bubblegum flavored.

____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#66 Apr 20 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
******
43,630 posts
The correct answer is that schools faculty should be equipped with shotguns with beanbag munitions.

Children love beanbags.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#67 Apr 20 2012 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
15,813 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
As far as I know CPR has a 5% success rate. As far as I know there are instances of medical personnel or civilians working for up to hours to resuscitate drowned or otherwise dead people. In the cases where brain injury is highly likely, I don't know whether that's a good thing. But in the cases of very cold water or other bodily preservatives, I really respect the people who can go at a corpse for more than a few minutes, for that magic 5% chance of reviving them and saving their life.

In these cases the CPR isn't performed to revive them. It's done to keep blood going to the brain until advanced medical care arrives - to revive them.

____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#68 Apr 20 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Default
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
15,813 posts
xantav wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

Yeah. CYA and policy IMO. The laws have shifted so far from the corporal punishment days. Teachers and administrators are pretty much not allowed to touch any of the children at all without subjecting themselves to lawsuit.


Nope. The conservative echo chamber has ginned up a lot of imaginary outrage about this, though, so I can see why drooling simpletons would think it was the case.


That goes double for restraining an unruly child. Unfortunately, this means that they have to call the police to deal with situations which the schools used to be able to handle (unless the school has on campus security for just this purpose, which is usually only the case in special schools for troubled kids).


Again, no. No school has a policy that staff can't restrain a child acting out. What a huge fucking sucker you'd have to be to buy that. Amazing. Anyway, the reality is much more likely that the staff who contacted police thought the child was too dangerous to restrain and didn't want to risk injury to themselves or her. Not because of liability, because they didn't want to get smashed in the face with a chair. I think perhaps you people without children forget how old six years is. A six year old could probably kill you fairly efficiently with a hatchet. They aren't toddlers.

Are you arguing this just because Gbaji made the original post? I have to ask what a teacher would use to restrain a 6 year old child? Only thing that comes to mind is to either lock them in a room or put them in a bear-hug. But physical contact would be a huge no-no in this day and age, especially with the child being a girl. In case you weren't aware, there are people out there who think school districts are one big lottery, hence the CYA actions.
I made the original post. I'm not gbaji. Why would it be a big no-no for a teacher to touch a child but not the police, or their doctor, or their karate instructor, or their grandma? You're playing into irrational fears. Don't do that.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#69 Apr 20 2012 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
Quote:

Good to know. I'll make sure to pass this along to my brother (a teacher) that his district has the wrong information and he can run around putting his hands on his students because lawsuits don't happen and are just made up to get ratings.


Teachers can't punch their kids in the face, but can and should be able to restrain a 6 year old safely (And often times Do) if the child is a danger to themselves or others.

They won't win a lawsuit, in this instance. It just shows incompetence on a bunch of levels.

____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the **** out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#70 Apr 20 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,288 posts
Don't you know? EVERY time an adult touches a child, it's molestation. We should all be alarmed. All the time.
#71 Apr 20 2012 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
28,220 posts
BAD TOUCH! Smiley: eek
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#72 Apr 20 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
14,787 posts
Samira wrote:
BAD TOUCH! Smiley: eek


You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals...
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#73 Apr 20 2012 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
31,541 posts
Elinda wrote:
Why would it be a big no-no for a teacher to touch a child but not the police, or their doctor, or their karate instructor, or their grandma?


Because none of the others (except perhaps the grandmother) take on a legal responsibility for the child as a pseudo-guardian and therefore are held to even the most absurd standard that any random parent might insist that their child must receive in terms of treatment norms. Add to that the fact that K-12 education is mandated. Parents must send their child to school (or meet homeschooling requirements). So unlike a doctor which you might choose, or karate instructor, or even a trip to grandma's, the parents are effectively being forced to hand their children over to the school for a period of time.

Quote:
You're playing into irrational fears. Don't do that.


Do what? Do you know any K-12 teachers? Go ask them what the rules are in terms of touching students. And I don't mean molesting. Can't touch them on the shoulder. Can't touch them when consoling them. Certainly, can't touch them as any part of any discipline. One of the hardest things for grade school teachers to deal with is the fact that kids in those grade levels (especially about 2-5) love to run up and hug their teachers. But every one of those teachers knows that they are subject to potential lawsuit every single time it happens. What are they supposed to do? Push the child away?

And physical contact during any form of discipline is right out the window. You can do this if you are handling special ed kids (sometimes), but the school knows it's a risk. For random teachers? Bad idea. Even in situations where two kids are in a fight and a teacher attempts to pull them apart, they're setting themselves up for risk of lawsuit. I didn't respond to Smash's little diatribe because I assumed that everyone could see he's just BSing. Sometimes it's easier to just let him continue with his little delusions. But don't for a moment think that teachers are not under extreme pressure from the schools to avoid physical contact with students at all costs.


And that's exactly why we have schools calling the police. The police department is far more protected from lawsuit for engaging in actions like this than the schools. That sucks and all, but that's just the way things are.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#74 Apr 21 2012 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
Gbaji wrote:
Do what? Do you know any K-12 teachers? Go ask them what the rules are in terms of touching students. And I don't mean molesting. Can't touch them on the shoulder. Can't touch them when consoling them. Certainly, can't touch them as any part of any discipline. One of the hardest things for grade school teachers to deal with is the fact that kids in those grade levels (especially about 2-5) love to run up and hug their teachers. But every one of those teachers knows that they are subject to potential lawsuit every single time it happens. What are they supposed to do? Push the child away?


Not get a Husband Bulge.

Quote:
And physical contact during any form of discipline is right out the window. You can do this if you are handling special ed kids (sometimes), but the school knows it's a risk. For random teachers? Bad idea. Even in situations where two kids are in a fight and a teacher attempts to pull them apart, they're setting themselves up for risk of lawsuit. I didn't respond to Smash's little diatribe because I assumed that everyone could see he's just BSing. Sometimes it's easier to just let him continue with his little delusions. But don't for a moment think that teachers are not under extreme pressure from the schools to avoid physical contact with students at all costs.

And that's exactly why we have schools calling the police. The police department is far more protected from lawsuit for engaging in actions like this than the schools. That sucks and all, but that's just the way things are.


I find it strange that we live in the same country yet somehow your America is perceived to be completely different than mine.

Edited, Apr 21st 2012 3:19am by Omegavegeta
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the **** out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#75 Apr 21 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Caffeine Queen
*****
14,446 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
I have to ask what a teacher would use to restrain a 6 year old child?


My Mom, whom was a special Ed teacher in the 90s, learned all sorts of restraints & holds after a kid 'sperged out & bit her. She learned them on the taxpayers dime, too, since they were skills she needed to know to effectively deal with some of her Autistic students. While I'm sure a potential lawsuit was very much on the school districts minds, they also have to make sure their teachers are safe too, right?

I chalk this up to no one in the school district wanting to get their hands dirty, or no one on site was properly trained on how to safely restrain a child. They should fix that.

My mom, also a special education teacher, learned the same holds, same way. In fact, in her school, and I believe in my children's school down here, only those teachers who are trained in these holds are allowed to try and restrain an out of control child. Hence, why, if there are no teachers who know these holds, the police can be called.
____________________________
Uglysasquatch wrote:
DSD kicked Alma in the **** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

Suburban Rebel Mom Blog
#76 Apr 22 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
31,541 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:
I find it strange that we live in the same country yet somehow your America is perceived to be completely different than mine.


And the fact that events like the one in the OP match my perception while countering yours should be a great clue as to which of our perceptions better matches the actual reality of the world we live in. What I find "strange" is when people run through life eternally confused or outraged when things in the world don't match their assumptions, but it never occurs to them to adjust or correct those assumptions.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#77 Apr 22 2012 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,470 posts
gbaji wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I find it strange that we live in the same country yet somehow your America is perceived to be completely different than mine.


And the fact that events like the one in the OP match my perception while countering yours should be a great clue as to which of our perceptions better matches the actual reality of the world we live in.


That's completely fallacious.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#78 Apr 22 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
31,541 posts
Eske Esquire wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I find it strange that we live in the same country yet somehow your America is perceived to be completely different than mine.


And the fact that events like the one in the OP match my perception while countering yours should be a great clue as to which of our perceptions better matches the actual reality of the world we live in.


That's completely fallacious.


No. It's only somewhat fallacious. Smiley: tongue

You've got several people in this thread who personally know people in the education industry who are saying one thing (that rank and file teachers are instructed not to physically restrain unruly students), and a case where a school called police rather than deal with an unruly student who would have required physical restraint. While that's not proof of anything, it is, as I said earlier "a great clue".
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#79 Apr 22 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,470 posts
Smiley: oyvey
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#80 Apr 22 2012 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Caffeine Queen
*****
14,446 posts
gbaji wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
I find it strange that we live in the same country yet somehow your America is perceived to be completely different than mine.


And the fact that events like the one in the OP match my perception while countering yours should be a great clue as to which of our perceptions better matches the actual reality of the world we live in.


That's completely fallacious.


No. It's only somewhat fallacious. Smiley: tongue

You've got several people in this thread who personally know people in the education industry who are saying one thing (that rank and file teachers are instructed not to physically restrain unruly students), and a case where a school called police rather than deal with an unruly student who would have required physical restraint. While that's not proof of anything, it is, as I said earlier "a great clue".


Special ed teachers take a class to learn these restraining holds. Not all teachers have access to these classes, and IIRC my mother was one of three teachers in an entire school who had the training and was allowed to try and restrain violent children. If teachers are not certified and current on these classes, most schools will not allow anyone but the police to interfere if it gets as bad as this case was. It's pretty simple to understand why this is, given to happy lawsuit US. Not all teachers can take these courses as they are costly and (surprise surprise) schools don't have enough in their budget to pay for all teachers to have these courses.
____________________________
Uglysasquatch wrote:
DSD kicked Alma in the **** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

Suburban Rebel Mom Blog
#81 Apr 23 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
******
43,630 posts
DSD wrote:
It's pretty simple to understand why this is,
You would think so.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#82 Apr 23 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
***
2,798 posts
My soon-to-be-ex-wife is a (currently unemployed) teacher. In her last teaching job, she was teaching 1st grade and her kids loved to run up and give her hugs. She said she basically had to stand there and let them hug her and could not reciprocate at all. Luckily, she never had to restrain an unruly child or separate two children who were fighting. the worst she had was a kid who threw something at her, but all she did to him was send him to the principal's office and call his parents in for a discussion.
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#83 Apr 23 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
31,541 posts
DSD wrote:
gbaji wrote:
You've got several people in this thread who personally know people in the education industry who are saying one thing (that rank and file teachers are instructed not to physically restrain unruly students), and a case where a school called police rather than deal with an unruly student who would have required physical restraint. While that's not proof of anything, it is, as I said earlier "a great clue".


Special ed teachers take a class to learn these restraining holds. Not all teachers have access to these classes, and IIRC my mother was one of three teachers in an entire school who had the training and was allowed to try and restrain violent children. If teachers are not certified and current on these classes, most schools will not allow anyone but the police to interfere if it gets as bad as this case was. It's pretty simple to understand why this is, given to happy lawsuit US. Not all teachers can take these courses as they are costly and (surprise surprise) schools don't have enough in their budget to pay for all teachers to have these courses.


Exactly. And while you're likely to have those resources at the high school level, it's not hard to believe that many grade schools may not have anyone who's trained/qualified to do that. It depends on how the state system is set up, and even how the districts are set up, but unless they have some kind of early immersion program in place, it's not uncommon for special needs and/or critical skills kids to be in separate grade schools. And in those cases, the regular grade schools will not have the means to deal with the rare unruly kid except to call the police (or take action and risk lawsuit).


I just think that many people have no clue what sorts of constraints are placed on teachers these days.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#84 Apr 23 2012 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
Under A Thumb...
*****
10,008 posts
Teachers claim to not be able to touch kids so they can call the cops, with the hopes that the officer bugs out and maces the little basterds.
____________________________
Quote:
I would imagine that if you could understand Morse code, a tap dancer would drive you crazy.
Lebowski Fest | Church of the Latter-Day Dude | Nick And Dooie!
#85 Apr 24 2012 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
******
43,630 posts
Cause a lot less potential permanent damage if they just tase them.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#86 Apr 24 2012 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
15,813 posts
gbaji wrote:

I just think that many people have no clue what sorts of constraints are placed on teachers these days.

Do enlighten us.....
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#87 Apr 24 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
***
1,087 posts
Well, I believe Duct tape is out.................I miss the good old days
____________________________
[99WAR,99BLM,99DRK,99BST,99PLD,99MNK,99SMN75RDM49THF45NIN/WHM/DNC
/SAM,,~] Galka

BASTOK:10 SKY: O SEA: O DYNAMIS: O
SIREN srvr
YARP !!!
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 53 All times are in CDT