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Dragon Age 2, still not riftFollow

#1 Apr 16 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Because we like Eske so much, we'll grant his request.

I haven't played dragon age 2 yet though, so I'm going to ask about Origins

So I've done mage tower, and the redcliff quest lines, should my characters all be madly in love with me, or is neutral to warm feeling normal?

Edited, Apr 16th 2012 2:16pm by Xsarus
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#2 Apr 16 2012 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: confused

Smiley: bah
Smiley: mad
Smiley: motz
Smiley: banghead

Smiley: deadhorse

Smiley: cry

Smiley: lol

We need an "acceptance" smiley to complete my stages of Dragon Age thread related grief.

Edited, Apr 16th 2012 3:18pm by Eske
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#3 Apr 16 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
So I've done mage tower, and the redcliff quest lines, should my characters all be madly in love with me, or is neutral to warm feeling normal?


I hope so. My dog is the only one who's friendly with me. I've been giving the gifts that say things like "hunk of meat on bone" to Alistair.


Edited, Apr 16th 2012 12:23pm by someproteinguy
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#4 Apr 16 2012 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
We need an "acceptance" smiley to complete my stages of Dragon Age thread related grief.


Smiley: rolleyes is usually appropriate.

Smiley: nod
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#5 Apr 16 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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For all the hate DA2 gets, I did still like it for the most part. Sure there are lots of things that sucked about it, but I finished it and I don't finish many games these days. I'm just really hoping the next game takes a step back towards DA:O in complexity.
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#6 Apr 16 2012 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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You can get them pretty high just by talking to them. But if you are relying solely on their approval gains during conversations with other people, then yeah--they shouldn't be past warm by that point. You really need to give them gifts or speak with them/ask them questions to get higher.

Of course, depending on your choices, they could end up hating you. Smiley: wink But since you have the ultimate edition, you have access to special gifts (Bodhan sells for 0 coin) that can give huge approval gains/losses. Giving Shale the pet rock will give +50 (or 100, I don't remember), but giving her the Uncrushable Pigeon will be a huge approval loss.

I've only finished Ostagar and I got through Lothering this morning. I'll be going to the Mage Tower tonight, and will probably finish it (since I installed Skip the Fade). Have to write a paper, though, so we'll see.
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#7 Apr 16 2012 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
Smiley: rolleyes is probably an appropriate response to my shenanigans.

That's good to hear protein, I was worried that I was missing something. I did sleep with the elf chick. having full coercion is awesome.
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#8 Apr 16 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Also, I hope Dragon Age 3 has co-op.
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#9 Apr 16 2012 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I can't stand playing without Coercion. IIRC, you're playing a Mage, so this won't apply to you. But just so you know, if you play a Rogue you'll only need 3 Coercion in Origins and 2 Coercion in Awakenings, to never fail a check.

Coercion = 25 Cunning per point (for purposes of conversation checks).

So if you have over 25 Cunning, which you should if you play a Rogue, then you won't need higher. I usually prioritize Rogue cunning until this point, because of that.

In Awakening, you'll almost certainly end up over 50 Cunning. If you have a respec mod, might as well change it up. Not worth losing for DA:O, if you aren't going to respec, though.

Deft Hands is similar, but it's in multiples of 10. 40 Cunning and you won't need it at all. I don't think Awakening added another difficulty tier. I never take it, to be honest. You might miss a few chests, but you can get to 40 fast enough. Definitely wouldn't toss more than 1 point.
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#10 Apr 16 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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DA2 was not nearly as good a game as DA:O. That said, it was the only game since Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare that actually made me put down my controller and say "holy **** I can't believe that just happened." Anybody who has played either game will know exactly the points in each which elicit said response, and they are shining examples of how video games can contain sincere, emotional experiences.

Of course, the Modern Warfare series then proceeded over the next several games to turn this singularly transcendental moment into a ubiquitous calling card of sorts, which kind of ruins the initial experience in hindsight. But whatever; this thread isn't about the sterilization of the video games industry (much like the movie industry: **** you, Michael Bay).
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#11 Apr 16 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, because someone shamelessly locked the other thread.

Xsarus wrote:
I just got owned by the werewolves you get after talking to the trio. Ugh


Which one is that, is that where they come charging down the hill? Or another place? Because if it's the one where they're at the top of the hill I want to say I pulled them one or two at a time for a bit. Everyone using ranged weapons and spells to mow them down at first, until the numbers got up and I moved to CCing them.

Anyway on that thought Morrigan set as a "controller" has been awesome (Thanks Joph). I don't have sleep yet (probably next level as I only need like 2 more magic IIRC, can't wait), but glyph of paralysis (have Wynne with it too now), horror, mind blast, Winter's Grasp. Pretty much enjoying the whole CC chaining thing. Also those NPC mages I was complaining endlessly about convinced me to throw some AoE down when my tank was still at full health. An acid flask under her while all the baddies circled around seems to help things go faster. Smiley: nod

TL:DR I'm actually kind of glad I started over, things are going much smoother this time... Smiley: lol

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#12 Apr 16 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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(much like the movie industry: @#%^ you, Michael Bay).
Thank you.
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#13 Apr 16 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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You want your party to at least be Neutral to you. It's better to have them liking you since they'll gain stat bonuses as the in-game way of demonstrating what a great leader you are. I wouldn't sweat the minor disapproval you may gain from dialogue choices as you adventure (i.e. Morrigan giving you -3 for pausing the quest to help a townsfolk NPC) since you'll gain a fair amount of approval by completing people's side-quests (Flemeth, Alistar's sister, Margolaine, etc) and through gifts. Even if you don't want to 'cheat' with the big gifts, you'll come across all manner of lesser gifts in your travels.

Two notes worth mentioning...
(1) Racing through Leliana's approval can cause her to miss dialogue options with you as she goes straight into being infatuated with you. She'll skip past telling you about her past with Margolaine if her approval is too high which means you can't do her side quest (or properly fall in love with her). You can fix this by giving her the gag gift from the dwarf in camp (ugly shoes) for -50 approval, have the talk about Margolaine then give her the Fat Lute to restore her feelings (+50).

(2) Spoiler regarding Zevran If you have a low/moderate approval, he will betray you in Denerim and side with the Antivan Crows. With a high approval, he'll side with you and fight against them when they come looking for you.

Also some characters will straight up leave you if you make choices completely counter to their personality, no matter how you were previously seen in their eyes. Shale if you fight to preserve the Anvil with her in your party, Wynne if you elect to destroy the Mage Circle*, Wynne & Leliana if you defile the Sacred Urn, Alister if you make Loghain a Grey Warden. *There's a way to thread the needle and keep Wynne but generally she'll fight you.

In general, provided you chat with your party semi-regularly and don't say anything obviously stupid (telling Alister to stop crying, calling Morrigan a **** you should be fine.

Edited, Apr 16th 2012 3:33pm by Jophiel
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#14 Apr 16 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
In general, provided you chat with your party semi-regularly and don't say anything obviously stupid (telling Alister to stop crying, calling Morrigan a **** you should be fine.

Although, ironically, telling Morrigan to STFU is basically the way to get to that sweet "friends with benefits" spot in her romance where you can have wild apostate **** all you want without any of the emotional attachment (and later reservation).

Smiley: schooled
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#15 Apr 16 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's a neat exploit you can use to tease Zevran to gain as much approval from him as you want. Well, I say exploit; but he's such a slut, who knows? Maybe it's intended.
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#16 Apr 16 2012 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
There's a neat exploit you can use to tease Zevran to gain as much approval from him as you want. Well, I say exploit; but he's such a slut, who knows? Maybe it's intended.

There are also some infinite +approval dialogue options with Oghren and Sten. Sten in the cage, and Oghren... either as a regular conversation or maybe it's in the bar with his lady friend. I kinda forget.

Ok, on topic. DAII or MEII? I loved DA:O sooo much more than Mass Effect (Mass Effect was rought equivalent to DA: Awakening... in both playtime and overall game), and I love the DA universe lore. But everyone and their mother says ME2 is the best game EVERRR. Thoughts?
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#17 Apr 16 2012 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Samira wrote:
There's a neat exploit you can use to tease Zevran to gain as much approval from him as you want. Well, I say exploit; but he's such a slut, who knows? Maybe it's intended.

There are also some infinite +approval dialogue options with Oghren and Sten. Sten in the cage, and Oghren... either as a regular conversation or maybe it's in the bar with his lady friend. I kinda forget.

Ok, on topic. DAII or MEII? I loved DA:O sooo much more than Mass Effect (Mass Effect was rought equivalent to DA: Awakening... in both playtime and overall game), and I love the DA universe lore. But everyone and their mother says ME2 is the best game EVERRR. Thoughts?

I like them both, but Mass Effect wins hands down. It's the reason I bought an XBox.
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#18 Apr 16 2012 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Samira wrote:
There's a neat exploit you can use to tease Zevran to gain as much approval from him as you want. Well, I say exploit; but he's such a slut, who knows? Maybe it's intended.

There are also some infinite +approval dialogue options with Oghren and Sten. Sten in the cage, and Oghren... either as a regular conversation or maybe it's in the bar with his lady friend. I kinda forget.

Ok, on topic. DAII or MEII? I loved DA:O sooo much more than Mass Effect (Mass Effect was rought equivalent to DA: Awakening... in both playtime and overall game), and I love the DA universe lore. But everyone and their mother says ME2 is the best game EVERRR. Thoughts?
ME2, if you're asking what to play next. ME2 is a clear improvement over ME1, whereas DA2 is a step backwards in many respects from DA:O.
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#19 Apr 16 2012 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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DA2 was an odd sequel. In some ways, it made huge steps forward. In others, its like they completely forgot what made DA:O great.

If you compile a list of the stronger and weaker points of one game, you can pretty much just flip it to find the same for the other.

I think DA2 had better characters (and definitely did a better job at building them), but DA:O had the better story. DA2 had more exciting combat, but DA:O's was much more strategic. DA:O had several environments, DA2 only had one. But DA2 more thoroughly fleshed out the feeling of that one area than you see in anything in DA:O (including Awakening, which heavily features just the keep and Amaranthine). Art is better in DA2, but they used many of the models from DA:O (particularly because DA:O required more new models). DA2 will send you to the same dungeon map nonstop, which was less egregious in DA:O.

Only thing that's a solid pro for both, imo, is that the music is great.

So which game you think is better is going to depend on what value you place on various aspects (along with the cons, for instance). The main reason I play RPGs is for the characters, so I like DA2 a lot more than many other people do. The loss of some of the strategy wasn't such an issue for me, because that wasn't my favorite aspect of DA:O. Repeating the same dungeon was irritating, but not something I personally hated enough to detract points for.

I DO think the narrative of DA:O was better overall, primarily because it is a unified plot. DA2's is mainly just about the protagonist, which makes it feel like cobbled together short stories.

But I also prefer Hawke to the Warden by a significant portion. I like how they went out of the way to create 3 distinct personalities for him/her. I like that I have free choice there, and the fact that I actually felt way more like I was making real decisions about characterization.

It's just not as significant to go through DA:O going "lolchantry" or "Die mage!" at every opportunity as it is in DA2, especially if you replay it. Diplomatic Hawke and Sarcastic Hawke actually feel like completely distinct characters.

So, if what you like is the strategic gameplay, diversity of the environment, overarching narrative, ability to choose your Origin (/play as a Dwarf or Elf), and a non-voiced protagonist, you'll prefer DAO.

If what you like is the character development, art, ability to choose your personality, faster combat (like at lower difficulties in DA:O), and a deeper investment into the story of the main character, you'll prefer DA2.

As for the two of them vs. ME2, IDK. I love both series. I guess I'd favor ME, but I have to say that a huge part of my love for the games are because they filled a significant Space-RPG void in my heart. I love DA, but fantasy RPGs are much more common.
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#20 Apr 16 2012 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
I have ME on my computer right now, which I'll probably play when I'm done my first play through of DA:O. My friend has a copy of ME2 for ps3, which I'll play after that. I'm looking forward to that, because my ps3, unlike my computer, is connected to a projector Smiley: thumbsup
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#21 Apr 17 2012 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
I have ME on my computer right now, which I'll probably play when I'm done my first play through of DA:O. My friend has a copy of ME2 for ps3, which I'll play after that. I'm looking forward to that, because my ps3, unlike my computer, is connected to a projector Smiley: thumbsup


I'd really recommend continuing on the PC, because only a few main plot choices will be offered to you (through the Genesis DLC) if you play on the PS3. And everything else defaults to Renegade (as opposed to the "good" Paragon), or isn't transferred at all.

That said, you'd only be missing out on the color stuff. The core game+DLC will give a complete experience. Still, it's nice to see the full spectrum of things, imo.

But if you're opposed to buying ME2 for the PC for the $15 to 20 bucks it will cost you, it isn't going to ruin your experience.
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#22 Apr 17 2012 at 12:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Well, I had ME lying around, but never played it, otherwise I'd get it for ps3. Honestly, the projector makes it a really easy call.
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#23 Apr 17 2012 at 1:13 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Well, I had ME lying around, but never played it, otherwise I'd get it for ps3.
No you wouldn't. There is no PS3 version of ME1.
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#24 Apr 17 2012 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
But I also prefer Hawke to the Warden by a significant portion. I like how they went out of the way to create 3 distinct personalities for him/her. I like that I have free choice there, and the fact that I actually felt way more like I was making real decisions about characterization.


I may be the only one, but I found Hawke MORE restrictive. My DA:O character was fully fleshed out in my mind, back story and all. In comparison, Hawke felt a bit too pat.

I did like the voice acting for Hawke, though, especially the sarcastic female.
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#25 Apr 17 2012 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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Kirkwall just feels so dead, though. They really should have included more city traffic.
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#26 Apr 17 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
Kirkwall just feels so dead, though. They really should have included more city traffic.

That's probably my biggest complaint, to tell the truth. It needs more people doing things, rather than just standing around. This was an issue in DA:O, too, but you spent way less time in each area, so it was easier not to notice until replays.

They need people moving around town, they need dialogue for you to overhear, they need npcs to travel from one area to the next, they need to differentiate between the acts more significantly, they need shops to open and close, etc.
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#27 Apr 17 2012 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
they need shops to open and close, etc.

Oh God no. I HATE that in the Elder Scrolls games. I want to sell my shit and move on, not stand around tapping my foot and waiting for the weapon merchant to finish eating breakfast at the inn and meander on down to his shop. I actually find it LESS immersive than if the shops were always open because it pulls me out of the game and into thinking "Fuck, which key wastes time again?"

Speaking of merchants, I'm always a little disappointed that I can't interact more with the Orlesian flower/perfumes merchant in Denerim or even browse her wares. Seems like it would be an excellent place to buy gifts for female party members, maybe herbs, etc. She just tells you her sad story and gets the vapors. I'd at least hoped Leliana would have something to add to her fellow expat.
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#28 Apr 17 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, I actually meant that from act to act. The game takes place over a 10 year period, but all the same merchants are in business the whole time. None close, none open. It makes it hard to believe 3 years have passed when the city doesn't seem to have really changed at all.
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#29 Apr 17 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, okay. I still haven't gotten around to DA2 so assumed you meant the whole day/night thing. I'm about wrapped up with my mage so maybe I'll try DA2 afterward. I'm not real optimistic but I guess I'll try to keep an open mind.

I'll stay on the record as hating day/night routines in RPGs anyway unless it's explicitly needed for the plot, like sneaking into a castle or robbing a house.
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#30 Apr 17 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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In DA2, you choose whether or not you're heading into an area at day or night, and that only applies for 3 of them. During the day, they'll have merchants. At night, they'll have gangs looking to rob you. But it's not like standing around will make that vendor leave.
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#31 Apr 17 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Night time in Castlevania made my palms sweat bad.
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#32 Apr 17 2012 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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I hate nighttime in the legend of zelda, ocarina of time. It is just annoying to have all those zombies erupt from the ground.
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#33 Apr 17 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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The worst was when you were JUST out of range to make it over the drawbridge to Castle Town in time, so you spent the night just hanging outside the gate, killing skeletons.
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#34 Apr 17 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can get a mod for DA:O to make the world more realistic. Just the sort of thing you're talking about - people standing around gossiping in Denerim, people wearing different styles of clothing, more dogs and cats under foot, even changed a few NPC locations to make encounters more challenging. For instance, picking the pocket of the silver smith in the Crime Wave series - he's moved, and his guards are always in your way.
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#35 Apr 17 2012 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I did download that, It makes a HUGE difference. But I've still only seen a handful of the areas for PC DA:O. Everything else was stationary in the PS3 version, where the only moving NPCs were the patrolling guards in the Denerim market.
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#36 Apr 18 2012 at 12:05 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
Kirkwall just feels so dead, though. They really should have included more city traffic.

That's probably my biggest complaint, to tell the truth. It needs more people doing things, rather than just standing around. This was an issue in DA:O, too, but you spent way less time in each area, so it was easier not to notice until replays.

They need people moving around town, they need dialogue for you to overhear, they need npcs to travel from one area to the next, they need to differentiate between the acts more significantly, they need shops to open and close, etc.
Considering that DA:O is the game where you have to sit through a load screen to see the 4th room in a particular home(the one in Redcliff), I think they were worried about system graphical resources or something.
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#37 Apr 19 2012 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Change **** temporarily to pass gender checks in dialog. Meaning you can fool Morrigan and romance her with a female character. Or, Alistair with a male if that's your flavor. You can also marry a certain queen with a female character. --Changing **** also changes body appearance so it looks goofy - to hide this the item will transform you into a Skeleton or a Dryad based on the new gender (see screenshots).
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#38 Apr 19 2012 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Avoiding Alistair flirting with you is the best reason to play as a male.

Edited, Apr 19th 2012 3:09pm by Jophiel
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#39 Apr 19 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
I like Alistair's flirting. Smiley: grin There's this one conversation he and Leliana have when you're exploring, where he asks her for wooing tips, and she says that his awkwardness is endearing. That is so true for me. I think he's adorable.
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#40 Apr 19 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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To be fair, I may not be the best judge of how adorable a guy is when he's awkwardly trying to get into my pants.
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#41 Apr 19 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I like Alistair's flirting. Smiley: grin There's this one conversation he and Leliana have when you're exploring, where he asks her for wooing tips, and she says that his awkwardness is endearing. That is so true for me. I think he's adorable.


I love his "oops, now I've lost my train of thought" moments. Smiley: lol

For better or for worse though, my initial assessment of him was closer to Morrigan's. Granted I haven't played though all of his character development yet.
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#42 Apr 19 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'm generally attracted to guys like Alistair. Smiley: lol

I actually already downloaded a mod to bypass gender restrictions for Alistair, but if I get the desire to take Morrigan's disdain of men one step further, I'll check that out. :P

Right now, I'm playing a Rogue who's going to be queen.
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#43 Apr 19 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Quote:
Meaning you can fool Morrigan and romance her with a female character. Or, Alistair with a male if that's your flavor. You can also marry a certain queen with a female character. --Changing **** also changes body appearance so it looks goofy - to hide this the item will transform you into a Skeleton or a Dryad

I'm sure that if there's one thing hotter than awkward Uncanny Valley underwear sex, it's awkward Uncanny Valley underwear **** with a skeleton.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#44 Apr 19 2012 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:


That has some weird screenshots.
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#45 Apr 19 2012 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
Oh my... I didn't see that one lol.
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#46 Apr 19 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
someproteinguy wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I like Alistair's flirting. Smiley: grin There's this one conversation he and Leliana have when you're exploring, where he asks her for wooing tips, and she says that his awkwardness is endearing. That is so true for me. I think he's adorable.


I love his "oops, now I've lost my train of thought" moments. Smiley: lol

For better or for worse though, my initial assessment of him was closer to Morrigan's. Granted I haven't played though all of his character development yet.


Well, he is a bit of a doofus, but he's not a moron like she seems to think. There was one argument between the two of them not too long ago where he protested that he was smart because to be a Templar you had to have a pretty extensive education. It's essentially the same as the sisters for the Chantry go through. I think that's a pretty fair assessment. I do love the antics between the two of them though. I'm not generally a big fan of conflict, but the conflict between them is pretty funny. Oh and once you develop a relationship with Alistair, and you talk to Morrigain, her responses are pretty funny. She makes a comment about how she doesn't get what I see in him because he's such an idiot. One of the options is to reply, "He may be an idiot, but he's my idiot." I picked that one. Smiley: grin It gave me a good chuckle.
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#47 Apr 19 2012 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
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11,625 posts
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Well, he is a bit of a doofus, but he's not a moron like she seems to think. There was one argument between the two of them not too long ago where he protested that he was smart because to be a Templar you had to have a pretty extensive education. It's essentially the same as the sisters for the Chantry go through. I think that's a pretty fair assessment. I do love the antics between the two of them though. I'm not generally a big fan of conflict, but the conflict between them is pretty funny. Oh and once you develop a relationship with Alistair, and you talk to Morrigain, her responses are pretty funny. She makes a comment about how she doesn't get what I see in him because he's such an idiot. One of the options is to reply, "He may be an idiot, but he's my idiot." I picked that one. Smiley: grin It gave me a good chuckle.


Smiley: lol

Yeah Morrigan's and Alistair's interactions have to be about my favorite so far. The two personalities just bounce off of each other so well it's entertaining to watch. Admittedly Alistair is growing on me the more time I spend around him. I'm not sure if that's due to anything he's doing, or if it's simply the fact the only other male romance option recently tried to kill me. Smiley: rolleyes

Though I'll have to romance him and talk to Morrigan now. That sounds like fun. Smiley: grin
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#48 Apr 19 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
Oh, I like Zevran quite a bit too. His over the top flirting makes me giggle. Kind of reminds me of Harold from BBT, except a lot more suave and a lot less awkward. But the flirting style is about the same, he just pulls it off a lot better than Harold does.
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Grakine, 32 Hunter
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#49 Apr 19 2012 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
11,625 posts
Well heck I'll have to give him another look too then. Is there anyone who you didn't like? Smiley: wink It just seemed like a weird transition with him to go so quickly from "i'm going to kill you" to "let's mash nasties eh?" I mean I get the whole back story where he was kind of forced into the crows at a young age, etc. etc. But it seemed like a weird leap of faith to take with a character.

I dunno, maybe I have trust issues... Smiley: lol
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#50 Apr 19 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
There was one argument between the two of them not too long ago where he protested that he was smart because to be a Templar you had to have a pretty extensive education. It's essentially the same as the sisters for the Chantry go through. I think that's a pretty fair assessment.

The fact that he thought "I'm smart enough for the Chantry" would impress Morrigan is reason enough to call him an idiot.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#51 Apr 19 2012 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
28,187 posts
It's fun to be in a romance with either Alistair or Zev and go somewhere with Oghren in the party. He's such a nosy wheedler.
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