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#102 Apr 24 2012 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
I haven't had my game crash at all.
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#103 Apr 24 2012 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you're playing a rogue, you're pretty much Leliana's replacement already. Or start allocating Zevran's skills towards the same goals (although you'll be at a disadvantage given his base skills unless you mod him). I usually go two melee/tank, one ranged (bow) and one mage but that's just me. When I played a rogue, I think I just left out the archer and still did okay.
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#104 Apr 24 2012 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I'm not so much concerned at the idea of losing Leliana, as I am losing out on two potential ranged characters, given that I don't think there are any others. Zevran is the backstabbing variety of rogue, Alistair is a tank, Sten and Oghren are both dps warriors (although Sten could be used as a tank as well I suppose) and I'm not sure what Shale does since I haven't gotten her yet. Waiting until after I finish Orzammar so I don't have to worry about her getting **** at me. I was actually thinking of making Sten my tank, since he's not a goody goody like Alistair, so I guess if I felt particularly strong about having three ranged, I could either respec Zevran or Oghren. I'll probably just stick to doing half and half though, that way my play style will be a bit different.
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#105 Apr 24 2012 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I do like the current party set up I have now, of the tank and three ranged people, as it makes it a lot easier to avoid AoE damage and stuff like that. But I guess having two melee and two ranged wouldn't be that bad.


Given Wynne's tendency to hang out next to my tank, she get's reluctantly referred to as my 2nd melee... Smiley: grin

Also I'm struggling to figure out what Leliana actually does well. I mean the massively long range is nice, and she picks locks. But she doesn't have any great CC, and doesn't seem to do a lot of damage. Her buffing is nice, but I'm just get the feeling it's not that great.
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#106 Apr 24 2012 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shale has capable ranged attacks and a combat mode where nearby ranged characters are buffed.

Zevran already has the Dexterity to work as an archer. You probably won't fill out all the archery skills by the end of the game with him but that's not important. I've seen people report that sustained plink-plink-plinking with Rapid Aim is actually better DPS than using things like Critical Shot or Arrow of Slaying due to their activation times. Plus Zevran sort of sucks as a melee due to the AI not really understanding how rogues should work.

Herbalism can negate some of the need for a healer; just crank out the poultices. Morrigan can spot heal as required in tougher fights. I made it through the last game with my character just using Heal & Group Heal (yeah, had to take the healer spec for that). Maybe add Revive to the mix. Unless you wanted to spec Morrigan as a blood mage you shouldn't need Wynne at all.

Can Morrigan spec as Arcane Warrior? I never bothered to look at it for her. Morrigan dressed in Warden Commander armor and swinging that Arcane sword would be pretty lulzy.

Edited, Apr 24th 2012 2:05pm by Jophiel
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#107 Apr 24 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I never played Morrigan as an arcane warrior either, but I bet she could.

Sten is not a great tank, not saying it can't work but he only gets one spec, which is a little bit of a handicap. Watch out with the evil choices with Sten, as well - he's not evil, per se.

If you want to go evil but keep Alistair as your tank, you can do that. He'll disapprove but he won't leave. He pretty much can't, since it's his quest you're on in the long term.
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#108 Apr 24 2012 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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#109 Apr 24 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Can Dog tank?

I remember him being squishier than Alistair early on, and actually switched him out for bear-form-Morrigan. Not that I knew what the heck I was doing or anything. Smiley: um
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#110 Apr 24 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
Oh I know Sten isn't evil, but he's not as goody goody as Alistair is. He comes with the Champion specialization though, doesn't he? That's the default tanking tree, so I'm not too worried about it. Does seem kind of odd that he's the only humanoid who only gets one specialization though. I'm pretty sure there's a mod out there to fix that, so if it ends up being an issue it's not a big deal.

Oh and protein, if you change Wynne's "mode" in the tactics menu to Ranged instead of Default, she won't follow your tank around so much. You want to do that with all your ranged toons really.
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#111 Apr 24 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've no idea as I rarely used him. But he'll never stop loving you.

Actually, I thought he started with a pretty high Constitution score.
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#112 Apr 24 2012 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Also, I've been thinking about what kind of set up to do in a second run through as a rogue. I'm curious to see what would happen choosing some of the more "evil" plot options, like killing off the mages instead of helping them, and siding with the Andraste cult and stuff like that. However, I know if I do that I'll only have Morrigan as a mage/healer, and I'll lose Leliana as well. I do like the current party set up I have now, of the tank and three ranged people, as it makes it a lot easier to avoid AoE damage and stuff like that. But I guess having two melee and two ranged wouldn't be that bad.


Annulling the circle will lose you Wynne, but I'm pretty sure you can get around losing Leliana as long as she isn't with you for her crisis points (though she might leave later, if you don't choose the right dialogue options).
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#113 Apr 24 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:

Oh and protein, if you change Wynne's "mode" in the tactics menu to Ranged instead of Default, she won't follow your tank around so much. You want to do that with all your ranged toons really.


Ahhh ok.

I have her set as 'defensive' at the moment, Morrigan is set there too. I'll have to give ranged a try then. Smiley: grin

Jophiel wrote:
I've no idea as I rarely used him. But he'll never stop loving you.

Actually, I thought he started with a pretty high Constitution score.


I think so too. I don't think he had other things the tanks do, such as the different shield techniques and what not. He didn't seem to have as many stuns and other things too. Plus no using potions for emergencies (right?). I dunno, it was like level 10ish or something though, so I didn't use him for long either. Smiley: frown

Maybe if I just concentrate on raising that score? Seems like that would require a lot of mana to heal.

And he can't taunt?

I have no idea if any of that really matters though... Smiley: lol

Edited, Apr 24th 2012 2:40pm by someproteinguy
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#114 Apr 24 2012 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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The dog can use potions, but he doesn't taunt very well. He is always on your side, though.

I usually set him to defend the healer/mage.

Sten is unspecced to begin with, and can use any of the warrior specs - but only one. I haven't seen a mod to fix that, but I haven't looked that hard. His two-hander damage is too good to pass up.
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#115 Apr 24 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Give Sten 2 specs, give Sten 2 specs, mister
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#116 Apr 24 2012 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
The dog can use potions, but he doesn't taunt very well. He is always on your side, though.

I usually set him to defend the healer/mage.

Sten is unspecced to begin with, and can use any of the warrior specs - but only one. I haven't seen a mod to fix that, but I haven't looked that hard. His two-hander damage is too good to pass up.


Is it? I never used him, actually. Don't like his personality, didn't like him only having one spec. *shrug*
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#117 Apr 24 2012 at 5:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I set Sten up as a Berserker and he did fine by me. As mentioned, not a great tank (Alistair seems best for that) but does good damage.

You can actually thread the needle and kill off the Circle without losing Wynne. Don't ask me for the exact path to take in the dialogue tree but I did it last game without intending to. I was actually surprised to find that I had inadvertently killed them all since I had planned to save them to avoid angering Wynne. Of course, if you continue to act like a **** I'm pretty sure she leaves anyway (i.e. if you defile the Urn).

Edited, Apr 24th 2012 6:01pm by Jophiel
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#118 Apr 24 2012 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I set Sten up as a Berserker and he did fine by me. As mentioned, not a great tank (Alistair seems best for that) but does good damage.

You can actually thread the needle and kill off the Circle without losing Wynne. Don't ask me for the exact path to take in the dialogue tree but I did it last game without intending to. I was actually surprised to find that I had inadvertently killed them all since I had planned to save them to avoid angering Wynne. Of course, if you continue to act like a **** I'm pretty sure she leaves anyway (i.e. if you defile the Urn).

Edited, Apr 24th 2012 6:01pm by Jophiel


I think I do remember thinking about that, actually, thinking about it. Just looked it up on the wiki:

1. Recruit her after you defile the urn. Doesn't seem like you can reason with her about this, even if she's not in the party.
2. You let Uldred kill Irving, but don't openly agree to Annul the circle when Cullen asks. Whether or not you actually try to save them doesn't matter, as long as you promise to. So the circle gets destroyed, but Wynne stays with you. Without Irving, you get Templar support.

I haven't actually Annulled the Circle, so no clue what happens to the other mages. I really need to get around to trying that out...
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#119 Apr 24 2012 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Never occured to me to recruit her after the Urn since the Urn is usually the last thing I do before the final chapters.
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#120 Apr 24 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Did she not turn on you there? The wiki page might be missing something, then, or poorly worded.

And yeah, I always get her before the Urn. Not because the Urn is always last, but because I always do the Mage Tower first. Access to those stats is just nifty, particularly so I don't have to invest in Cunning for non-Rogues, or as much in Dex for my Arcane Warriors. Also helps me meet stat reqs for gear/skills.

After that, I almost always go to Redcliffe, to the point where you get to Connor.

Next is either Brecilien Forest or Haven.

Orzammar is pretty much always last, which is actually what the Devs "intended" because the minimum level for mobs there, iirc, is 10-15.
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#121 Apr 24 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't defile the Urn. I wasn't saying I kept Wynne and acted 'evil' throughout, just that I accidentally-successfully kept her while killing the Circle.
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#122 Apr 24 2012 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I set Sten up as a Berserker and he did fine by me. As mentioned, not a great tank (Alistair seems best for that) but does good damage.

You can actually thread the needle and kill off the Circle without losing Wynne. Don't ask me for the exact path to take in the dialogue tree but I did it last game without intending to. I was actually surprised to find that I had inadvertently killed them all since I had planned to save them to avoid angering Wynne. Of course, if you continue to act like a **** I'm pretty sure she leaves anyway (i.e. if you defile the Urn).

Edited, Apr 24th 2012 6:01pm by Jophiel
I just did it as well, and like you, have no idea how. I didn't even mean to kill them all off, but apparently that's the route I took. Then when it was over, she still asked Gregoir to let her go with me.
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#123 Apr 24 2012 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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If you don't use the Littany, he'll turn them into abominations. If you do, you'll "save" them (or at least Irving).
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#124 Apr 24 2012 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I used it (multiple times in fact) and they all got Abominitized. Sucked to be them.

It was amusing to go back and ask about Whats-her-dwarf-face (Dagna?) joining the (non-existent) Circle. Gregoir was not down with that.
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#125 Apr 25 2012 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
If you don't use the Littany, he'll turn them into abominations.
Uhm, yea. That would be what I didn't do. I was wondering why the fight seemed a bit harder this time around.
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#126 Apr 25 2012 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Doesn't Wynne shout at you a couple times mid-fight to use it?
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#127 Apr 25 2012 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
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Who knows, I have a 4 and 5 year old running around in the background.
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#128 Apr 25 2012 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Doesn't Wynne shout at you a couple times mid-fight to use it?

Pffttt... broads say a lot of things. Who can keep track?

I'm playing Awakenings and feeling the lack of decent NPC personalities. Whatever core Oghren had that made me like him in DA:O was stripped out and now he's the comic-tard that others say they hate him for in Origins. The apostate mage isn't fit to carry Morrigan's socks. I picked up some rogue so maybe he'll be bearable. This seems to be a theme in the DLC as I can't think of a single NPC outside the core game that was memorable, much less likable. The elf from Witch Hunt had one good line...
Ask her about my book!
...and that was it. I'd rather travel with Wynne, Alistair and Zevran than this bunch of losers.

Also, as long as I'm **** I picked some power that enhanced my Arcane Shield and now it throws off giant blackish waves of energy. Unless I stop and turn off my sustainables talking to anyone is like watching them from across a large grill between the smokey particle effects and "air ripples". If they can lose my helm during those scenes, they should be able to lose the spell effects.

Edited, Apr 25th 2012 7:54am by Jophiel
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#129 Apr 25 2012 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that Awakenings lacks the character depth of Origins. I liked Anders as a healer, and he was probably my favorite of the new characters that you can recruit. I'm not sure why you couldn't choose which Origins companion to bring with you. Oghren was my least favorite, maybe because I tend to recruit him last. Or maybe because the drunken dwarf thing is just kinda overdone.

I like the dwarf rogue you can recruit in Awakenings, though. At least she has a little bit of depth.
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#130 Apr 25 2012 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Also, as long as I'm **** I picked some power that enhanced my Arcane Shield and now it throws off giant blackish waves of energy. Unless I stop and turn off my sustainables talking to anyone is like watching them from across a large grill between the smokey particle effects and "air ripples". If they can lose my helm during those scenes, they should be able to lose the spell effects.


I pretty much got into the habit of stripping 2-3 specific sustainables on my Arcane Mage for converstaions. It actually got me dizzy if the conversation was too long. I wonder if there's a mod to turn the effects off?

Quote:
I agree that Awakenings lacks the character depth of Origins. I liked Anders as a healer, and he was probably my favorite of the new characters that you can recruit.


I hated Anders in Awakening, but it made me like him in DA2 (because I realized how much less annoying he became).

And yeah, Awakenings characters are the primary reason I found the expansion completely disappointing. The only characters I kinda liked were Justice and Sigrun. Except she didn't really have much of a character beyond "Can I go die now? Smiley: smile" and I only liked him for letting me learn about the Fade/Spirits.

Ohgren was especially bad. They not only vamped up his lecherous drunkenness, but they also added abandonment of family to the mix. Every single time he talked in Awakening, I had to suppress my desire to facepalm.
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#131 Apr 25 2012 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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I've enjoyed Anders so far (which isn't long since i decided to go back and reply Origins). I've spent a fair bit of time laughing at him. I enjoy pulling out the Sir Pounce-A-Lot gift.
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#132 Apr 25 2012 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I felt that Origins Oghren at least had some depth. He's lost his wife and House and knows that he's a big fuck up but tries to soldier on the only way he knows how: booze, bluster and crude jokes. You end the game feeling like he's on the cusp of at least solving the "big fuck up" part and making a new start on the surface.

In Awakenings, he's just Beavis but with red hair.

I did like in Origins how he said that dwarven booze sucks compared to surface booze. At least that old trope was reversed.

I'm also still annoyed at Alistair's cameo which amounts to "Oh, uh, hey... I know you... I guess. Ok, gotta run." Speaking of, what's with the king humping all the way out there from Denerim just to spend two minutes before turning around to go home? Are they the only place that sells the cigarettes he likes or something?

Edit: I'm still early in so haven't met some of the NPCs others referenced. Just me, Anders, Howe, pseudo-Oghren and the memories of Mhaririranaiaiai. You will not be forgotten.

Edited, Apr 25th 2012 9:08am by Jophiel
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#133 Apr 25 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Alistair is dead. The queen rules.
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#134 Apr 25 2012 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Huh. She really let herself go in that case. Her new haircut does NOT do her justice.
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#135 Apr 25 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Just me, Anders, Howe, pseudo-Oghren and the memories of Mhaririranaiaiai.

I loathe Anders.

My biggest complaint about DA2 is that he's a primary party member, and the primary healer (unless you play Hawke as one, which is uberlame).
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#136 Apr 25 2012 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Huh. She really let herself go in that case. Her new haircut does NOT do her justice.


Don't tell Justice that. He'll kill her stylist.
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#137 Apr 25 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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You all have got me playing through again. Bastards.

This time I'm making all the choices I didn't make before. I've destroyed the tower, killed the elves, and when I get to the end.... well, I'm gonna do something radical.
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#138 Apr 25 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Join the blight!
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#139 Apr 25 2012 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
when I get to the end.... well, I'm gonna do something radical.
Something like dying because you can't solo the end?
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#140 Apr 25 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Possibly! Or maybe I WILL solo the end, you don't know. Smiley: mad

And Joph - there is a mod to remove annoying effects. It's called something like Annoyance Remover.
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#141 Apr 25 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
You all have got me playing through again. Bastards.

This time I'm making all the choices I didn't make before. I've destroyed the tower, killed the elves, and when I get to the end.... well, I'm gonna do something radical.


You aren't going to make Alistair kill the demon, are you? Smiley: frown
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#142 Apr 25 2012 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to make Dog-Dog kill the archdemon. And then grab that sword in his mouth and run under its neck. I figure he's bitten enough darkspawn to be a Grey Warden.
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#143 Apr 25 2012 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Samira wrote:
You all have got me playing through again. Bastards.

This time I'm making all the choices I didn't make before. I've destroyed the tower, killed the elves, and when I get to the end.... well, I'm gonna do something radical.


You aren't going to make Alistair kill the demon, are you? Smiley: frown
How else would you get the queen to come visit you in Vigil's Peak in Awakenings?
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#144 Apr 25 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can force Alistair to leave the party prior to the ending battles. I suppose that would do it.
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#145 Apr 25 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ohhh, there are options. If you spare Loghain, Alistair will leave the party for good. If he's hardened, and he's already agreed to marry Anora, he will do that but if not then he just leaves, and Anora retains the throne. If that's the way you go, Alistair will show up in DA2 as a Grey Warden (hardened) or a drunk (not hardened).
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#146 Apr 25 2012 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Too late. He's dead for my DW War. Maybe he'll survive my AW.
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#147 Apr 25 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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I feel like I remember a way to have him appear in DA2 as a warden, but still in a romance with the Warden. But I'm pretty sure sparing Loghain automatically terminates a relationship. The Wiki says there's a fix you can apply to make him acknowledge his relationship with the Warden, as well as his/her final fate, but it doesn't go into more detail.
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Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

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#148 Apr 25 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can do that. Kill Loghain, leave Anora on the throne. The Warden and Alistair will still be Grey Wardens.
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#149 Apr 25 2012 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
You can do that. Kill Loghain, leave Anora on the throne. The Warden and Alistair will still be Grey Wardens.

Really? I thought Anora always ordered his execution if he was hardened. I need to experiment with that. :P
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#150 Apr 25 2012 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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I never hardened him and she didn't kill him. No idea how hardening him changes that.
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#151 Apr 25 2012 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tougher to cut his head off, obviously. Duh. Smiley: rolleyes
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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