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Rosen vs Romney: That's what she saidFollow

#1 Apr 12 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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So this happened, more or less:

Hilary Rosen: Ann Romney has never worked a day in her life.

Ann Rombey: Oh yeah? I CHOSE to work at home and raise five boys!

Audience: Ooooooh!

Hilary Rosen: Okay maybe I didn't mean it quite like that. I'm sorry.

Dems: Wait a minute, so you believe women deserve choices, Mrs. Romney? SO DO WE!

Catholic League: Haha, Ann Romney's a real woman, unlike that **** Rosen who had to ADOPT her kids.

Audience: *gasp*

Mothers of adopted children: What the **** I thought the Catholic church was pro-adoption!

Conclusion: Ann Romney is pro-choice and the Catholic church is now anti-adoption.
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#2 Apr 12 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rosen made some inartful comments that were stupid from the very basic premise that attacking a candidate's wife is rarely fruitful. They were stupid but I doubt a single person on this forum had even heard of her prior to last night.

The Republicans are grasping onto this because they're getting creamed in the "War on Women" arena and need any lifeline they can grab, even if it's just throwing a hissy fit over something stupid a random Democratic strategist said.
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#3 Apr 12 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
They were stupid but I doubt a single person on this forum had even heard of her prior to last night.
I doubt she'll be remembered after this thread devolves into whatever talking point is brought up in the next few hours.
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#4 Apr 12 2012 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not familiar with the Catholic League, but I hardly think that they speak for the Catholic Church.
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#5 Apr 12 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Are we at the point yet where someone's clueless long-lost relative stumbles in and says something incredibly sexist about bikinis and jello wrestling?

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 12:38pm by someproteinguy
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#6 Apr 12 2012 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catholic League wrote:
Unlike Rosen, who had to adopt kids, Ann raised 5 of her own.

Ermmm... hrm. Hmm. Smiley: dubious

Hey, I see these are the same guys who flipped their shit over The Golden Compass.
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#7 Apr 12 2012 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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Romney's wife and that her comments were intended to criticize Mitt Romney's use of Ann as an "expert on women and the economy."


Is Romney's wife actually in some kind of advisor's position, or is this just something Mitt said about her as a compliment?
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#8 Apr 12 2012 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see anything in her portfolio that would make her an expert on either but I'm not the one setting the adviser's bar in Romney's campaign.
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#9 Apr 12 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ann Romney wrote:
My career choice was to be a mother. And I think all of us need to know that we need to respect choices that women make. Other women make other choices, to have a career and raise a family, which I think Hilary Rosen has actually done herself. I respect that. That's wonderful. But you know, there are other people that have a choice. We have to respect women in all those choices that they make.


...as long as those choices match up to what we think is appropriate for women to make.
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#10 Apr 12 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Rosen made some inartful comments that were stupid from the very basic premise that attacking a candidate's wife is rarely fruitful. They were stupid but I doubt a single person on this forum had even heard of her prior to last night.

The Republicans are grasping onto this because they're getting creamed in the "War on Women" arena and need any lifeline they can grab, even if it's just throwing a hissy fit over something stupid a random Democratic strategist said.


You'd have a point, except that pretty much the entire "War on Women" arena was built by random Democratic strategists whom most of us have never heard of and couldn't name if our lives depended on it. Yet we all know the message, don't we? If journalists are going to put these people on their shows as a means of raising awareness of the issue (and presumably influencing public perception about it), then those people and the hosts who put them on their shows should certainly be held accountable for any stupid thing that comes out of their mouths.
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#11 Apr 12 2012 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, the War on Women was started by Republican men deciding that contraceptives were more evil than unwed mothers.

The media just gave it a catchy name.
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#12 Apr 12 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Catholic League wrote:
Unlike Rosen, who had to adopt kids, Ann raised 5 of her own.

Ermmm... hrm. Hmm. Smiley: dubious

Hey, I see these are the same guys who flipped their shit over The Golden Compass.


Totem?
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#13 Apr 12 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
Actually, the War on Women was started by Republican men deciding that contraceptives were more evil than unwed mothers.


I would say that it was Liberal pundits who decided to interpret GOP opposition to mandates about contraceptive coverage as a "war on women", when it was really a "protection of religious freedom" issue. No one's telling women that they can't buy contraception, or even buy insurance which provides contraception. We're saying that the government can't force a religious institution to buy contraception for women (or men for that matter), nor require them to buy insurance which provides those things either.

The whole thing has been spin from day one. The only rights being attacked are those of religious institutions by the Dems.

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The media just gave it a catchy name.


Of course they did. Because a catchy name is a great way to hide the fact that your entire issue is BS.
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#14 Apr 12 2012 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I suppose when you're getting hammered on abortion, contraception and equal wages, throwing a hissy fit over these comments and justifying it with "They started it" is the best you can do.
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#15 Apr 12 2012 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
No one's telling women that they can't buy contraception, or even buy insurance which provides contraception


Not even Rick "contraceptives make me vomit and I want to ban them" Santorum?

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 6:00pm by catwho
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#16 Apr 12 2012 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Not even Rick "contraceptives make me vomit and I want to ban them" Santorum?

Silly Rick, you're not the one who's supposed to be taking the pill.
#17 Apr 12 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, I suppose when you're getting hammered on abortion, contraception and equal wages, throwing a hissy fit over these comments and justifying it with "They started it" is the best you can do.

Public opinion on abortion is still fairly split, and I'm not sure I even understand the third one, except in the context of what Certified Loonypants Scott Walker did earlier this week (notice the Santorum sticker on the Certified Loonypants state senator that made the unfortunate comments about money being more important to men, lulz).

Contraception? According to the first poll linked, most people don't even think it should be part of the national discourse.
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#18 Apr 12 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
catwho wrote:
Not even Rick "contraceptives make me vomit and I want to ban them" Santorum?

Silly Rick, you're not the one who's supposed to be taking the pill.


ITT: We find the real reason why Rick has kids.
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#19 Apr 12 2012 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Public opinion on abortion is still fairly split, and I'm not sure I even understand the third one, except in the context of what Certified Loonypants Scott Walker did earlier this week (notice the Santorum sticker on the Certified Loonypants state senator that made the unfortunate comments about money being more important to men, lulz).

Contraception? According to the first poll linked, most people don't even think it should be part of the national discourse.

Neither of those are broken along gender lines except for a Fox News poll on contraception (in which women side with the Democratic view 67-23). As I noted earlier, the GOP has a big polling issue with women right now. Even the GOP doesn't try to deny this, relying instead on lame "Well, they'll change their minds when they get to know us" hand waves. The issues that keep coming up are what women are getting to know about the GOP thus their attempts at damage control and now trying to claim any slim high ground they possibly can.

Women generally vote at greater rates than men (they cast 53% of the votes in the last presidential election). Having a double digit deficit with them is devastating.

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 7:13pm by Jophiel
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#20 Apr 12 2012 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Even the GOP doesn't try to deny this, relying instead on lame "Well, they'll change their minds when they get to know us" hand waves.

Kind of like Pelosi's argument about Obamacare, amirite?

Quote:
Women generally vote at greater rates than men (they cast 53% of the votes in the last presidential election). Having a double digit deficit with them is devastating.

And yet, the overall general election polls are all fairly close (with Obama winning slightly). There's still a lot of time between now and November.
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#21 Apr 12 2012 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, is Demea a Republican? I'm confused.
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#22 Apr 12 2012 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Wait, is Demea a Republican? I'm confused.


I was under impression that he was one of the non-trollish conservatives.
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#23 Apr 12 2012 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Kind of like Pelosi's argument about Obamacare, amirite?

Let's hope so! Smiley: grin

Quote:
And yet, the overall general election polls are all fairly close (with Obama winning slightly). There's still a lot of time between now and November.

For varying definitions of "slightly" I guess. A seven point margin meant a 365 EV win. I think a five point margin will still be sufficiently comfortable if that's where things still are.

For the next seven months we can repeat "there's time yet" but, at the moment, there's no sane denying that the GOP is in a very poor spot with some important demographics.
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#24 Apr 12 2012 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Wait, is Demea a Republican? I'm confused.


I was under impression that he was one of the non-trollish conservatives.

I tend towards libertarianism (small L), but technically I'm one of those fickle "independents."

I just felt like it was getting a little preemptively self-congratulatory in here. Somebody has to balance out the liberal lefts in here, and Totem isn't around.
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#25 Apr 12 2012 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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I suppose you can't balance all the liberals with a singular extreme conservative, as fun as that method was.
#26 Apr 12 2012 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, I think there's some conservative lurkers running amok, because my posts are actually getting rated up. Usually when I play devil's advocate, I get carpet-bombed by the knee-jerk sandbox crowd.

STOP SENDING MIXED SIGNALS!
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#27 Apr 12 2012 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji wasn't rated up though. Maybe someone here just thinks you're cute.
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#28 Apr 12 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Maybe someone here just thinks you're cute.

Aren't you married?
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#29 Apr 12 2012 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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That wouldn't preclude me from thinking you're cute Smiley: mad

I don't, mind you, but then I didn't rate you up either, dirty fascist-GOP-apologist...
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#30 Apr 12 2012 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Maybe someone here just thinks you're cute.

Aren't you married?


Dirty Hippies Liberals believe in free love.
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#31 Apr 13 2012 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Also, I think there's some conservative lurkers running amok, because my posts are actually getting rated up. Usually when I play devil's advocate, I get carpet-bombed by the knee-jerk sandbox crowd.

STOP SENDING MIXED SIGNALS!


There definitely are, because I've been getting heavily downrated in every other gbaji thread. Usually when I lay on the snark or the expletives thick. Honestly, I don't think that's ever happened before.

I wish they'd post.

Edited, Apr 13th 2012 7:57am by Eske
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#32 Apr 13 2012 at 6:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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They're there frequently. Not consistently mind you, but frequent enough. Personally, as someone who's conservative in many areas, I'm not sure how any other conservative can rate someone arguing with gbaji down since almost every argument is asinine.


Actually, there are two individuals I can think of who are polar to gbaji and are often as asinine as he is. You're not one of them though.
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#33 Apr 13 2012 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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We have a lurker that has a gbaji crush!

Smiley: drool
#34 Apr 13 2012 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, there are two individuals I can think of who are polar to gbaji and are often as asinine as he is. You're not one of them though.

Shadowrelm!
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#35 Apr 13 2012 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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That was a fun game.
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#36 Apr 13 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
I watched a clip of what Rosen said, and I don't see what the big deal is. Perhaps she could have phrased it better, but her point is valid. She's a stay at home mom, while there's nothing wrong with that choice, she certainly isn't qualified to voice her opinion on economic matters when her husband has been bringing home the bacon their entire marriage. Maybe if they weren't multi-centi-millionaires, I'd be able to buy that she might have done some budgeting while raising those kids, and knew what it was like to clip coupons, but I highly doubt that.
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#37 Apr 13 2012 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I watched a clip of what Rosen said, and I don't see what the big deal is. Perhaps she could have phrased it better, but her point is valid. She's a stay at home mom, while there's nothing wrong with that choice, she certainly isn't qualified to voice her opinion on economic matters when her husband has been bringing home the bacon their entire marriage. Maybe if they weren't multi-centi-millionaires, I'd be able to buy that she might have done some budgeting while raising those kids, and knew what it was like to clip coupons, but I highly doubt that.


Yeah, if you told my wife she wasn't qualified to voice her opinion on economic matters there'd be fireworks. She does most of the budgeting, couponing, paying bills, and stuff. She probably has a better grasp of all that economicy mumbo jumbo than the person who's actually bringing home the bacon in the relationship. Smiley: wink
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#38 Apr 13 2012 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, but you also don't have 200 million+ in your bank account and investments. Smiley: tongue Someone in your family has to do budgeting, and I wouldn't assume it was the breadwinner, since it could just as easily be the homemaker.

For someone who doesn't have to budget money, and has never worked a job (so they have no understanding of what it's like to know you make less than the guy next to you, just because he has a penis), to claim to have any sort of expertise when it comes to economic matters, is just ludicrous to me.

Not only that, I wonder how much choice is really involved there. Maybe I just don't know that many Mormons, but every single Mormon mother I have ever known, has been a stay at home mom except for one. And in that case, the dad wasn't in the picture anymore. I'm not sure if he died or if the parents got a divorce, but that particular mom was a nurse of some sort. Mormons are pretty conservative people, so I really wonder if there is in fact, a choice for the wives in whether they have a career or if they are stay at home mom's.
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#39 Apr 13 2012 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, but you also don't have 200 million+ in your bank account and investments. Smiley: tongue Someone in your family has to do budgeting, and I wouldn't assume it was the breadwinner, since it could just as easily be the homemaker.


Coming from someone who's totally out of the loop here (I seriously know nothing about these people, ahhh blissful ignorance...). Does she manage their money, you know stuff like the investments or anything? Or do they just hire people to do that?
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#40 Apr 13 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
I think you're missing the point in why it was a stupid thing to say pigtails.
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#41 Apr 13 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, but you also don't have 200 million+ in your bank account and investments.


Except Rosen's comment wasn't limited to the fact that the Romney's are wealthy, but that she had "never worked a day in her life". A choice which many married women have made. Even one's whose husbands are *not* multi-millionaires.

Quote:
For someone who doesn't have to budget money, and has never worked a job (so they have no understanding of what it's like to know you make less than the guy next to you, just because he has a penis), to claim to have any sort of expertise when it comes to economic matters, is just ludicrous to me.


So because someone doesn't earn money, they know nothing about budgeting money? Again, that's kind of offensive to millions of stay at home moms (and dads). Which is precisely the point. Ann Romney has no less a voice with regards to economic issues than all of those other women, yet Rosen just dismisses her (and by extension them) because they don't earn a salary.

It's one of the flaws in the Left's claim to be strong on women's issues (that all women are free to do what they want, as long as they make the kinds of choices that liberal women think they should), and Rosen stepped right into it.

Quote:
Not only that, I wonder how much choice is really involved there. Maybe I just don't know that many Mormons, but every single Mormon mother I have ever known, has been a stay at home mom except for one.


You don't know that many Mormons. Then again, I may know some a-typical ones too (California is not Arizona or Utah after all).
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#42 Apr 13 2012 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
someproteinguy wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, but you also don't have 200 million+ in your bank account and investments. Smiley: tongue Someone in your family has to do budgeting, and I wouldn't assume it was the breadwinner, since it could just as easily be the homemaker.


Coming from someone who's totally out of the loop here (I seriously know nothing about these people, ahhh blissful ignorance...). Does she manage their money, you know stuff like the investments or anything? Or do they just hire people to do that?


From some of the comments Romney has made, I'm guessing they hire someone to manage their money. Given the fact that he has no idea what companies he has invested money in and all.

I get that Rosen's comments could be taken as insulting to all stay at home mom's, but she's not talking about all of them, she's talking about Ann Romney. She's hardly an example of your average stay at home mom. I just can't picture her sitting in the kitchen balancing a checkbook like a normal person, I guess. But like I said, I don't think you have to earn money to know how to handle it and budget correctly and all that. I just don't picture a family with that much wealth as needing to budget, so I don't follow how she would have experience in economic difficulties.
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#43 Apr 14 2012 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Combined with the leaked Romney interview where he mentions off-handed that Ann's favorite hobby is dressage horse-riding, the known fact that they have many millions, and around live-in five servants.... yeah, Ann Romney doesn't really seem to "work" much at all.

It'd be different if she was involved in some charity organization or something. Generally, if one is a rich housewife and one is not working at all, it's expected that one is involved in a non-selfish hobby as a means of giving back to the community. Even if it was just being a cub scout mom or something.

Instead, her hobby is riding dressage horses. Not helping disabled kids go to horse camp or even running and managing her own horse stables or running a breeding line of the **** things. Nope, just riding them. Presumably handing the reins off to some poor stable boy when she's done and then going to take a shower after her "exhausting workout." (Note: Riding a horse is a bit of a workout, but the horse is the one really getting the exercise, not you.)
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#44 Apr 14 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
But you guys understand why it was a stupid thing to say right?
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#45 Apr 14 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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It was a stupid thing to say in that it did not help her party.

Doesn't dismiss the accuracy of the statement.

A friend of mine who is a SAHM by choice because whatever wages she could earn would be eaten up by childcare costs agrees 100% with Rosen.
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#46 Apr 14 2012 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
As someone else in this thread said, attacking a candidate's significant other is a bad move however you slice it. Keep the focus on the candidates, not on their families. It's not like Romney's wife is running for president.

That said, this comment has been taken completely out of context. For the GOP to spin this as "Democrats attacking stay-at-home moms" is laughable.

This is one person making a very ill-advised but ACCURATE comment that Anne Romney has never had to cope with the daily stresses and pressures that most Americans face every single day. Parenting is a difficult task, for sure... but it's not "work" in the sense of a 40+ hour per week job (in which you'll be fired, and your family up a creek, if you violate office politics or get on your boss' bad side). Being a parent has its own set of pressures, but parenting is apples and oranges when compared to not only working, but being the primary breadwinner of a household.

I work 60+ hours a week and never really get a day off. I'm a stepfather to a 14-year-old girl who is soon to be 15, and each day it's very difficult for me to carve out the time I wish I could spend with her... but I can't, because my family depends on me to work. I have to.

I WISH I could have the luxury of being a stay-at-home parent so I could spend more time with my step daughter! And I know there are thousands upon thousands of other working parents, mothers and fathers alike, who feel the same way.

Being financially stable enough to be a stay-at-home parent is a luxury most people will never have.

Yes, it's a luxury. The only time it's not a luxury is when one parent is forced to stay home because they can't afford daycare costs (like the person mentioned in the post above), but again, I'm certain that's never been a problem for the Romneys.



Edited, Apr 14th 2012 12:24pm by Thayos
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#47 Apr 14 2012 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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This wasn't Rosen attacking the candidate's spouse unprovoked, it was Rosen attacking the person that the candidate claimed was his economic adviser representing women.

Once a candidate admits they take serious policy advice from a spouse, the spouse becomes fair game for criticism as a policy adviser.
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#48 Apr 14 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
They become fair game if you don't want to win maybe. They certainly don't become fair game politically.
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#49 Apr 14 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Once a candidate admits they take serious policy advice from a spouse, the spouse becomes fair game for criticism as a policy adviser.


I remember Ann Coulter making a similar arguement back with Bush and the anti-war soldier wives...

Edit:
To be clear, I'm going for a "Do you want to be like them, or better?" type thing.

Edited, Apr 14th 2012 6:39pm by TirithRR
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#50 Apr 14 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Once a candidate admits they take serious policy advice from a spouse, the spouse becomes fair game for criticism as a policy adviser.


Yeah, don't become a political advice giver. This is pretty much terrible advice no matter how you swing it Smiley: lol
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#51 Apr 14 2012 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
It might not be good advice, but I agree with her.
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