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Rosen vs Romney: That's what she saidFollow

#152 Apr 20 2012 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
lolgaxe wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
When Obama wins the election, I'll stop worrying about how Mitt manages his finances.
Why worry? It doesn't matter what someone runs as, once they're in office they become homogenized right into the middle and the only difference is the self-imposed label of the people praising and scapegoating them.


Bush sure as hell didn't go center. It anything, he seemed to get more crazy conservative as time went on, compared to what he originally said he was going to do when he was running back in 2000.
#153 Apr 20 2012 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
When Obama wins the election, I'll stop worrying about how Mitt manages his finances.
Why worry? It doesn't matter what someone runs as, once they're in office they become homogenized right into the middle and the only difference is the self-imposed label of the people praising and scapegoating them.


Bush sure as hell didn't go center. It anything, he seemed to get more crazy conservative as time went on, compared to what he originally said he was going to do when he was running back in 2000.


Bush was kind of crazy period.

If anything though, my impression (rightly or wrongly) of Mitt was that he would be more likely to trend centrist as opposed to trending conservative if left to his own devices.
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#154 Apr 20 2012 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Mitt will always trend towards capitalist and that's about it.
#155 Apr 20 2012 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm less worried about the ideas coming from his own head than I am about him being a rubber stamp president for a batshit-conservative Congress. Not that I have any great faith in his own ideas, of course. They just worry me less.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#156 Apr 20 2012 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
When Obama wins the election, I'll stop worrying about how Mitt manages his finances.
Why worry? It doesn't matter what someone runs as, once they're in office they become homogenized right into the middle and the only difference is the self-imposed label of the people praising and scapegoating them.


Looks like we've got ourselves a badasscynic over here...


Burn him! How dare he suggest that our mighty mighty political battles are meaningless! Smiley: mad Die!
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#157 Apr 20 2012 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
When Obama wins the election, I'll stop worrying about how Mitt manages his finances.
Why worry? It doesn't matter what someone runs as, once they're in office they become homogenized right into the middle and the only difference is the self-imposed label of the people praising and scapegoating them.


Bush sure as hell didn't go center. It anything, he seemed to get more crazy conservative as time went on, compared to what he originally said he was going to do when he was running back in 2000.


I'm honestly curious for examples of what Bush said prior to taking office compared to what he did afterwards, but your statement absolutely applies to Obama. Remember the whole reaching across the aisle, post-partisan, post-racial, bit? Remember the whole limiting lobbyist access, cleaning up Washington bit? Hell. Obama somehow managed to fail to meet nearly every public promise he made during the campaign. Now, to be fair to him, no one on the right or left believed that what he said publicly was what he would actually do, but that just made it more amusing:

Obama makes promise to do X
Conservative: He's not going to do X! He's going to do Y instead.
Liberal: No he's not. You just heard him promise. He's going to do X. So why are you opposing him?
Conservative: Because he's not going to do X. Hell. You don't want him to do X. You want him to do Y. You're just saying that so that he'll get elected and then do Y instead.
Liberal: That's crazy! You're a crazy stupid racist person. You know that (insert laughter here).

Obama gets elected and does Y instead of X
Conservative: See! He did Y instead of X, just like I said!
Liberal: Well, of course he did Y. That was the right thing to do. Why would you think otherwise?
Conservative: But... You. Gah!!!


Yeah. That's pretty much how it's gone.
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#158 Apr 20 2012 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
When Obama wins the election, I'll stop worrying about how Mitt manages his finances.
Why worry? It doesn't matter what someone runs as, once they're in office they become homogenized right into the middle and the only difference is the self-imposed label of the people praising and scapegoating them.


Bush sure as hell didn't go center. It anything, he seemed to get more crazy conservative as time went on, compared to what he originally said he was going to do when he was running back in 2000.


I'm honestly curious for examples of what Bush said prior to taking office compared to what he did afterwards, but your statement absolutely applies to Obama. Remember the whole reaching across the aisle, post-partisan, post-racial, bit? Remember the whole limiting lobbyist access, cleaning up Washington bit? Hell. Obama somehow managed to fail to meet nearly every public promise he made during the campaign. Now, to be fair to him, no one on the right or left believed that what he said publicly was what he would actually do, but that just made it more amusing:

Obama makes promise to do X
Conservative: He's not going to do X! He's going to do Y instead.
Liberal: No he's not. You just heard him promise. He's going to do X. So why are you opposing him?
Conservative: Because he's not going to do X. Hell. You don't want him to do X. You want him to do Y. You're just saying that so that he'll get elected and then do Y instead.
Liberal: That's crazy! You're a crazy stupid racist person. You know that (insert laughter here).

Obama gets elected and does Y instead of X
Conservative: See! He did Y instead of X, just like I said!
Liberal: Well, of course he did Y. That was the right thing to do. Why would you think otherwise?
Conservative: But... You. Gah!!!


Yeah. That's pretty much how it's gone. always gone.


FIFY
#159 Apr 20 2012 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: laugh You so cute, Gbaji
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Belkira wrote:
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#160 Apr 20 2012 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Smiley: laugh You so cute, Gbaji


Do you see how I didn't just put your name in there and wrote "liberal" instead? Cause I'm subtle like that! Smiley: nod
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#161 Apr 20 2012 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Subtle like Glenn Beck. And sharp as Sarah Palin! Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#162 Apr 20 2012 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Subtle like Glenn Beck. And sharp as Sarah Palin! Smiley: laugh


I'm not sure whether to pull my glasses off and cry, or exclaim "Yeah sure, Yabetcha!".
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#163 Apr 20 2012 at 6:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is gbaji drunk? He seems almost normal tonight.
#164 Apr 21 2012 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to give Obama a pass on the whole reaching across the aisle bit. That needs to work both ways, and when one side refuses to budge, the other can't be blamed for not making a compromise.
#165 Apr 21 2012 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
I totally agree. And the fact remains that he DID reach across the aisle. More than he should have, I think. With the healthcare bill, he could have left the public option in. There was a small enough amount of republicans in both the house and the senate, that it would have gone through without a filibuster. It still ticks me off when I think about it.
#166 Apr 21 2012 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Um, the GOP did filibuster the bill. It only passed the Senate during the short window where they had sixty votes. Then they lost that when Kennedy died and the House had to pass the Senate version because a compromise version would have been blocked when it came back to the Senate with Brown in office.
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#167 Apr 22 2012 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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xantav wrote:
I'm going to give Obama a pass on the whole reaching across the aisle bit. That needs to work both ways, and when one side refuses to budge, the other can't be blamed for not making a compromise.


And when one side insists on pushing an agenda that they know is 100% in opposition to the other side's principles, that other side can't be blamed for not making a compromise either. To reach across the aisle means that you have to actually propose something the other guy wants/likes. Obama not only did not do this, he arguably did the exact opposite of it.


What the Dems did was the equivalent of taking a vegetarian out to a steak restaurant, ordering the porterhouse for them, then getting angry at them for refusing to pay their half of the bill.
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#168 Apr 22 2012 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
What? Didn't the healthcare bill get passed before the 2010 elections? I could have sworn it did. And with the 2008 elections, I'm almost positive we had a filibuster proof house and senate.
#169 Apr 22 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
What? Didn't the healthcare bill get passed before the 2010 elections? I could have sworn it did. And with the 2008 elections, I'm almost positive we had a filibuster proof house and senate.


As Joph said. Kennedy died and the GOP picked up his seat. Honestly though, the very idea that the only way to pass something is with a filibuster proof majority should be your first hint that what you're doing is extremely partisan.
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#170 Apr 22 2012 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
Yeah, and like I said, I thought that happened after the health care bill got passed.

And frankly, I don't give a **** if putting the public option in the health care bill would have been partisan or not. It should have been in there. A lot of people wanted it, and it would have been a nice middle ground for those of us who wanted universal health care and those of us who didn't.
#171 Apr 22 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, and like I said, I thought that happened after the health care bill got passed.


A version which was not intended to be the final version passed in the Senate. A different version passed in the House. Normally, you have a back and forth process as they determine the final version of the bill which can pass both houses, but when the Dems lost that seat, they realized they couldn't do this, and used a questionable reconciliation process to just make the bill that passed the senate the final version, massive flaws and all. At the end of the day, it was more important for the Dems to pass something called "health care reform" than to pass an actual working bill into law.

Which speaks volumes about their mindset.

Quote:
And frankly, I don't give a sh*t if putting the public option in the health care bill would have been partisan or not. It should have been in there. A lot of people wanted it, and it would have been a nice middle ground for those of us who wanted universal health care and those of us who didn't.


I find it telling that you admit that you don't care if it would be partisan, but then declare it a "nice middle ground". That statement is why claims that Obama reached across the aisle are pretty laughable.


I'll also point out that the inclusion or not of a public option was only one of a long long list of things that conservatives disliked about the health care reform bill. The mandates were a bigger issue. In keeping with my vegetarian served steak theme, the public option was like wanting to put bacon on top of the steak, then taking it off and wondering why the vegetarian is still not happy with his meal.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2012 12:25pm by gbaji
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#172 Apr 22 2012 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
It is the middle ground. It's also still partisan, because Republicans no longer have any claim to any part of the middle ground.
#173 Apr 22 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
As Joph said. Kennedy died and the GOP picked up his seat. Honestly though, the very idea that the only way to pass something is with a filibuster proof majority should be your first hint that what you're doing is extremely partisan.

When you need a filibuster proof majority to pass a bill largely based on a GOP model from the 1990s and put into effect by a Republican governor, it's totally because it's so extremely partisan Smiley: laugh
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#174 Apr 22 2012 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
It is the middle ground.


How? How the hell can you declare something that is 5 steps past anything the GOP is willing to accept as the "middle ground".

Quote:
It's also still partisan, because Republicans no longer have any claim to any part of the middle ground.


Um... You apparently have failed to grasp the concept of "middle ground".
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#175 Apr 22 2012 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
catwho wrote:
It is the middle ground.
How? How the hell can you declare something that is 5 steps past anything the GOP is willing to accept as the "middle ground".
If the GOP adamantly refuses to be taxed in any way to pay for health care for those who cannot afford it, well then there can't BE any middle ground can there? There can't BE any compromise can there? You can't reach across the aisle if the other guys are walled up in their "no-fort" CAN you?

The current GOP is NOT representative of anything even close to the middle. How can you possibly rationalize otherwise?
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#176 Apr 22 2012 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
Seriously. There's a reason liberal pundits are calling them "the party of No." They don't seem to care two ***** about improving the lives of their constituents. They just are hell bent on saying no to anything the Democrats put forth, no matter what it is. It's pretty messed up when you can't even get the Violence Against Women Act renewed.
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