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#152 Apr 12 2012 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
8. If most (ie. non-late term) abortions were performed prior to any real development of cranial tissue and organ growth, would you still be against them, conceptually? I ask this, because most are performed prior to this point. Anything in the first trimester is basically just a cellular mass, 2nd has appearance of form, but still nothing really concrete, and 3rd clearly has vital working components. Based on this, would you revise your position to something more akin to putting a prohibition on abortions performed after say, somewhere in the 12-18 weeks range (Which still allows abortions in the vast majority of current cases, but would curb the abuse potential)?


Convince liberals of this though. That's the problem. Just a couple days ago:

Quote:
Today the AZ House voted to ban all abortions after 20 weeks.

Meanwhile the GOP keeps saying that women will come around once they realize this Republican "War on Women" thing is all drummed up by the media.


The reasonable compromise that you propose (actually something that acts later in pregnancy) is flatly labeled by Joph as proof of the GOP engaging in a "War on Women". At what point do we get to point out the absurdly unfair criteria which the GOP must meet in order to *not* be accused of engaging in a war on women?
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#153 Apr 12 2012 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Convince liberals of this though. That's the problem. Just a couple days ago:


Yeah, It's partially because people have been heavily sold a controversy of "No Abortions ever vs Every baby gets aborted" and partly due to zero-sum politics that this happens, The remainder is mostly media compensation structures.

To your other point, the time window wasn't the bulk of the material that he passed, so it's disingenuous to try to interpret it as such.

The bill components such as "State insurance structures (including mandated exchanges) not being allowed to cover the procedure", Solo taped medical consultations, infringements on patient-doctor confidentiality arrangements, abstinence only sex-ed, repealing the equal-pay law, and a bunch of other things included in the bills were the real components that make up the "War on Women".

24->20 Wk term limitations is just the innocuous tip of a very large iceberg of sh*tty laws.

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 8:07pm by Timelordwho
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#154 Apr 12 2012 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
At what point do we get to point out the absurdly unfair criteria which the GOP must meet in order to *not* be accused of engaging in a war on women?

Like allowing access to it as was decided in Roe vs Wade is "absurdly unfair"?

Huh. Well, good luck with the chick vote come November.
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#155 Apr 12 2012 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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Kastigir wrote:
catwho wrote:
You've just described menstruation pretty accurately.

Really? A woman has to take a spatula to clean that sh*t out? Man, the textbooks have been lying to me all this time.

Sure as hell feels like it sometimes. And not just a spatula, but more like a paring knife. And the clots... don't get me started on the clots...
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#156 Apr 12 2012 at 6:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:

Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!". It's all the other stupid stuff too, like no marital benefits for anyone because single people get screwed, and the several paragraphs about how we should spend more money on outer space and airplanes that make it apparent that there is very little room left for a vagina in the wacky world of Kaolian.


1. Space is awesome, anyone who says otherwise is a dirty communist.
2. Airplanes are awesome, anyone who says otherwise is a dirty communist.
3. The point about marital benefits is in line with my previously noted stance that government should stay the @#%^ out of meddling with things that aren't related to their core purposes,
4. See 1 and 2.

I happen to know quite a few married Aerospace Engineers who would agree with points 1 and 2. My stance on marriage benefits is probably less popular with the married folk, but I really don't give a sh*t if anyone agrees with it. Anyways, is this the part of the thread where you try and explain your vague and irrational point, or the part where I start with the "your mother says Hi" retorts? I forget.
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#157 Apr 12 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Call him a rapist!
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#158 Apr 12 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I think that most people would say you just answered your own question. The death of a fetus that would otherwise develop into a human is what's bad about it and what differentiates it from preventative methods of contraception.


You realise I'm replying to one person specifically, right? His argument is what I was addressing, not yours or any other conservative poster's.

Don't let that stop you going off an irrelevant rant, though.
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#159 Apr 12 2012 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The death of a fetus that would otherwise develop into a human is what's bad about it and what differentiates it from preventative methods of contraception.


Except that IUDs and some forms of the pill (not just the morning-after pill, the other one) don't prevent conception. They prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterus. What's the diff?
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#160 Apr 12 2012 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Call him a rapist!

Call HER a rapist!

Samira wrote:
some forms of the pill (not just the morning-after pill, the other one)

The morning-before pill? I think they just call that one "the pill" Smiley: grin
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#161 Apr 12 2012 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!
Call HER a rapist Reluctant Sperm Recipient!
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#162 Apr 12 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!

Call HER a rapist!


Kao? Smiley: confused
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#163 Apr 13 2012 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Call him a rapist!

Call HER a rapist!

Samira wrote:
some forms of the pill (not just the morning-after pill, the other one)

The morning-before pill? I think they just call that one "the pill" Smiley: grin



Yeah, yeah; but with the so-called abortion pill widely available, I thought a distinction needed to be made, particularly since some pharmacies will fill prescriptions for one but not the other.
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#164 Apr 13 2012 at 6:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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#165 Apr 13 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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#166 Apr 13 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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#167 Apr 13 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
The apperent fact that you apperently feel the average couple is incapable of figuring out basic birth control practices is a rather pessimistic worldview. I don't buy the "religion prohibits contraceptives" argument because those same religions prohibit abortions too. For the rest of them, if they want to play, be prepared to pay the price or take measures to prevent it. I'm a firm believer in government funding to remove the breeding capability of anyone who requests it or for stupid people. If you are too dumb to figure out how not to make a baby while entertaining yourselves if you don't want one, you probably fall into the latter category. I definitly feel that Women (or men for that matter too) shouldn't have unprotected sex for pleasure unless they want a baby. There are many temporary and permanent options to prevent pregnancy, and the simplest ones are even free...
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible. They are also not used perfectly.

Just looking at that link, with typical use if a couple uses condoms and the pill and has regular sex for a year there's still a 1.2% chance of pregnancy. Basically, if you think it's ok to have sex for fun then having abortion available is pretty much a must.
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#168 Apr 13 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible.


I intend to remind my daughters they're both living proof of this. Should make for a good "my dad is way overprotective" rant around age 14 or so... Smiley: lol
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#169 Apr 13 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm getting one of those "aged" photographs made. It's where they take a picture of someone, and age it x amount of years to give you an idea of what the person will look like in the future. I plan on getting it to where she looks 18, and hang it on the wall somewhere she can easily see it. At some point she's going to recognize it as herself and is going to ask about it, at which point I'm going to tell her she's a time traveler and was sent back for a second chance to save the world.
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#170 Apr 13 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Well, that or have some sort of conception insurance.
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#171 Apr 13 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible.
I intend to remind my daughters they're both living proof of this. Should make for a good "my dad is way overprotective" rant around age 14 or so... Smiley: lol

Obviously not.
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#172 Apr 13 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
HINT: Contraceptives are not infallible.
I intend to remind my daughters they're both living proof of this. Should make for a good "my dad is way overprotective" rant around age 14 or so... Smiley: lol

Obviously not.


"If I was overprotective you wouldn't be here!" Smiley: mad

Must remember that line... Smiley: lol
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#173 Apr 13 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
Guenny wrote:

Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!". It's all the other stupid stuff too, like no marital benefits for anyone because single people get screwed, and the several paragraphs about how we should spend more money on outer space and airplanes that make it apparent that there is very little room left for a vagina in the wacky world of Kaolian.


For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin, and I agree with Kao on the marriage benefits thing. I think we should just abolish the state sponsored marriage and have civil unions. That way people can get the legal protections that come with "marriage" now, and we can stop this stupid debate about whether or not gay people should be able to get married. I may not be married, but I have a partner that I've been with for 4.5 years, and we will be getting married eventually. I think it's stupid to give married couples a tax break. I really don't see the point. Giving people with kids a tax break I can understand, because kids are expensive and the government has a vested interest in making sure kids turn out well for the continuation of our country.

The space and airplanes stuff I don't really care about though.
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#174 Apr 13 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!".
For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin

You are until you've slept with Guenny, if ya know what I mean...
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#175 Apr 13 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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#176 Apr 13 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!".
For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin

You are until you've slept with Guenny, if ya know what I mean...


I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole. Smiley: rolleyes
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#177 Apr 13 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
At what point do we get to point out the absurdly unfair criteria which the GOP must meet in order to *not* be accused of engaging in a war on women?

Like allowing access to it as was decided in Roe vs Wade is "absurdly unfair"?


I'm sorry. Could you point out where in Roe v. Wade the ruling states that the government must pay for contraceptives and/or abortion, or that it must mandate that insurance companies pay for these things? Cause the ruling itself was a stretch, but even it didn't go anywhere near that far.
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#178 Apr 13 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm sorry. Could you point out where in Roe v. Wade the ruling states that the government must pay for contraceptives and/or abortion, or that it must mandate that insurance companies pay for these things?

No, but since that wasn't what I said I don't feel too bad about it.

Hint: We were discussing the AZ law limiting the period in which abortion was legal.
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!".
For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin
You are until you've slept with Guenny, if ya know what I mean...
I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole. Smiley: rolleyes

Well then you're always going to be a virgin.

Edited, Apr 13th 2012 3:02pm by Jophiel
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#179 Apr 13 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm sorry. Could you point out where in Roe v. Wade the ruling states that the government must pay for contraceptives and/or abortion, or that it must mandate that insurance companies pay for these things?

No, but since that wasn't what I said I don't feel too bad about it.


Hint: We were discussing the AZ law limiting the period in which abortion was legal.


Ah. When liberals talk about "access to X", they're usually talking about having someone else pay for it, so forgive me if I missed the switch there.

So are you arguing that the Az law violates Roe v. Wade? Care to show this? Or are you just talking out of your hat again and hoping no one will call you on it?

Edited, Apr 13th 2012 1:42pm by gbaji
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#180 Apr 13 2012 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Ah. When liberals talk about "access to X", they're usually talking about having someone else pay for it, so forgive me if I missed the switch there.
Yeah, that's about as accurate as saying "When conservatives talk about "low taxes", they're usually talking about starving a child so they can keep their money." Do try not to be so transparent in your indoctrination in the future.

gbaji wrote:
So are you arguing that the Az law violates Roe v. Wade? Care to show this? Or are you just talking out of your hat again and hoping no one will call you on it?
Without even Googling or anything I'm gonna say that RvW allows abortion up through the end of the 2nd trimester which is..........24 weeks. @#%^, that was easy.
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#181 Apr 13 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Ah. When liberals talk about "access to X", they're usually talking about having someone else pay for it, so forgive me if I missed the switch there.
Yeah, that's about as accurate as saying "When conservatives talk about "low taxes", they're usually talking about starving a child so they can keep their money." Do try not to be so transparent in your indoctrination in the future.


So the 1000000 time that Obama said that his health care reform was about providing people with "greater access to health care" he was really just talking about putting better doors into health clinics? You're kidding, right? That word is overwhelmingly used by the left to mean "someone else paying for it".

Quote:
gbaji wrote:
So are you arguing that the Az law violates Roe v. Wade? Care to show this? Or are you just talking out of your hat again and hoping no one will call you on it?
Without even Googling or anything I'm gonna say that RvW allows abortion up through the end of the 2nd trimester which is..........24 weeks. @#%^, that was easy.


Allows. Does not require. It requires states to allow elective abortion through the end of the first trimester. It gives them leeway to restrict abortions past that point, and recommends strongly that states should limit abortions to maternal health past the point of quickening (22-24 weeks). It absolutely does not prevent a state from passing a law banning abortions except for such health cases past 20 weeks.

If you think it does (or anyone does), by all means prove it. Because that would be a wholly new and inventive re-interpretation of the ruling that I've never heard of before.
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#182 Apr 13 2012 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Ah. When liberals talk about "access to X", they're usually talking about having someone else pay for it, so forgive me if I missed the switch there.

Yeah, because it's not as though you quoted me upthread as an example of how unreasonable liberals are for thinking there was anything wrong with shrinking the number of weeks. I can see how your own narrative would be hard to keep up with Smiley: rolleyes

Quote:
So are you arguing that the Az law violates Roe v. Wade?

Are you just really stupid today or what? Friday wearing down on you? If I wanted to say it violated it, I would have. I said it was further limiting access to something that was found legal in Roe v. Wade.

Now I get that you'll either miss the point of that completely or else jump off your own rails again and start insisting that I'm really talking about the cost of condoms in Detroit. That's fine. Let me know when you're capable of following along.
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#183 Apr 13 2012 at 10:14 PM Rating: Default
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Guenny wrote:

Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!". It's all the other stupid stuff too, like no marital benefits for anyone because single people get screwed, and the several paragraphs about how we should spend more money on outer space and airplanes that make it apparent that there is very little room left for a vagina in the wacky world of Kaolian.


For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a virgin, and I agree with Kao on the marriage benefits thing. I think we should just abolish the state sponsored marriage and have civil unions. That way people can get the legal protections that come with "marriage" now, and we can stop this stupid debate about whether or not gay people should be able to get married. I may not be married, but I have a partner that I've been with for 4.5 years, and we will be getting married eventually. I think it's stupid to give married couples a tax break. I really don't see the point. Giving people with kids a tax break I can understand, because kids are expensive and the government has a vested interest in making sure kids turn out well for the continuation of our country.

The space and airplanes stuff I don't really care about though.


I thought I was clear that it was everything about his post, not just his unimaginative excuse to be a homophobe. When you start ranting about women getting too many abortions and not enough money being spent in outer space, well, I'll call you a virgin too. Until then, *eye socket thrust*
#184 Apr 13 2012 at 11:27 PM Rating: Excellent
My response wasn't because you called Kao a virgin, it was in reference to you saying his opinion of marriage benefits was because it was unfair to single people. I have no way of knowing what Kao's motives for not liking marriage benefits are, but I was simply offering an alternative reason for not liking them, other than it being unfair to single people. I don't give a rat's ass about whether or not it's fair to single people, I came up with the idea while thinking about a way to get people more comfortable with the idea of gay marriage. It seems like a lot of people are bothered by gay people using the word "marriage" so I figured a good compromise would be to return marriage to being a purely religious institution, that way nobody could get butt hurt about teh gays getting married, and we could all have access to the same legal rights.
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#185 Apr 13 2012 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:


I thought I was clear that it was everything about his post, not just his unimaginative excuse to be a homophobe. When you start ranting about women getting too many abortions and not enough money being spent in outer space, well, I'll call you a virgin too. Until then, *eye socket thrust*


Learn to read. Specifically the part where I wrote "The govenrment shouldn't care who is sleeping with who" for example. The only other part in there where I reference same sex couples was when I stated they, OR OPPOSITE SEX COUPLES shouldn't get tax breaks for being married. Period.

Are you usually this dense, or do you really just not know what that word means?
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#186 Apr 14 2012 at 12:01 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Guenny wrote:


I thought I was clear that it was everything about his post, not just his unimaginative excuse to be a homophobe. When you start ranting about women getting too many abortions and not enough money being spent in outer space, well, I'll call you a virgin too. Until then, *eye socket thrust*


Learn to read. Specifically the part where I wrote "The govenrment shouldn't care who is sleeping with who" for example. The only other part in there where I reference same sex couples was when I stated they, OR OPPOSITE SEX COUPLES shouldn't get tax breaks for being married. Period.

Are you usually this dense, or do you really just not know what that word means?

C'mon Kao, you already know the answer to that question.
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#187 Apr 14 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Space is cool & is our future as a species, provided we don't kill each other first. I think we should spend more than less than half a penny on every tax dollar on it.

It doesn't have to be a moonbase, but not having an active shuttle program is @#%^ing embarrassing.

I'm glad wise got extended though. Finding extra solar planets is @#%^ing cool & is changing what we know about planet formation & stuff.
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#188 Apr 14 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
I would totally be in favor of lowring our defense budget in order to increase the space program. Provided we increase education budget first. Smiley: grin
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#189 Apr 16 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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The education budget doesn't need to be expanded. The people spending the money need to learn how to spend their money smarter. The United States spends more than any other developed country (except Switzerland, apparently) on education between the ages of 6 and 15.

When I hear something like that and then find out the US is middle of the pack at best in education, it's obvious to me it's not the amount of money we're spending that's the problem.
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#190 Apr 16 2012 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, if you're saying we should change our education system to be more like those of Scandinavia, France, Canada, etc then you won't get much argument from me.
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#191 Apr 16 2012 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Hey, if you're saying we should change our education system to be more like those of Scandinavia, France, Canada, etc then you won't get much argument from me.


Our education system definitely needs to be changed, I'm just not sure which direction it needs to go. Education has gone downhill since the creation of the Department of Education in 1979, but I hardly think it's all, or even mostly, the DoE's fault. It is quite telling, though, how many states have seen upticks in testing with the recent advent of "charter" schools and voucher programs. I'm very excited about some recent education reform that was passed in my home state of Louisiana, especially with a 3 year old who will be starting school soon, possibly in August.

I think parents need to take a more active role in their children's education. I think teachers need to be held accountable for students who were able to learn under a different teacher in previous years. We're falling further and further behind. America is progressively growing dumber compared to other countries, especially in things like math and science, which I think most people would agree is the future. I also think the education budget in this country needs a complete overhaul and if that means asking foreign countries for tips on how they do it, than the US needs to swallow its pride and ask for help.

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#192 Apr 16 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Our education system definitely needs to be changed, I'm just not sure which direction it needs to go.

Well, we have one direction with a globally proven track record of kicking our nation's educational ass. And another direction where the main point for it is that it appeals to free market acolytes. I'd think it would be an obvious decision but I guess I'm not encumbered by the free market acolyte thing.

Quote:
if that means asking foreign countries for tips on how they do it, than the US needs to swallow its pride and ask for help.

None of them are keeping it a secret.
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#193 Apr 16 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I think parents need to take a more active role in their children's education.


/agree
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#194 Apr 16 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know if mimicking Canada's education system K-12 is worthwhile. Apparently, up to grade 6, no child can fail and be held back. Not sure if that's national, provincial, or a policy of our shoolboard.
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#195 Apr 16 2012 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, your Grade 12 testing scores beat ours. As a matter of pure pragmatism, I don't care if the kids are dumb as bran muffins to age 17, as long as they're beating the tests at age 18 when we boot them out into society.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#196 Apr 16 2012 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
So are you arguing that the Az law violates Roe v. Wade?

Are you just really stupid today or what? Friday wearing down on you? If I wanted to say it violated it, I would have. I said it was further limiting access to something that was found legal in Roe v. Wade.


Even you have to admit that's a pretty torturous response Joph. Your word choice shows an intent to attempt to use a constitutional ruling to support something that it doesn't, but without being too overly obvious just how far off track you'd gone. "found legal"? Really? Smiley: lol
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#197 Apr 16 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Uh, yeah right. Well, have fun laughing with that huge gender gap and saying how much it doesn't matter. Hope wrestling with the semantics to convince yourself it ain't no thang makes you feel better Smiley: smile
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#198 Apr 17 2012 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Romney is considering hosting Saturday Night Life. Dunno how to feel about that, since I actually liked the episode with Rudy Guiliani, though none of the allegations and slung mud against Guiliani involved an inability to relate to people. Ultimately, it'd probably be a good move for him*.

*If this were like ten years ago when SNL was still kinda funny.
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#199 Apr 17 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's no-lose short of him having some sort of mental breakdown and physically attacking the audience. Worst case scenario is that he sucks and people say "At least he went through with it and could laugh at himself". It's not as though anyone will be expecting him to be good.

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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#200 Apr 17 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing is, the writers for the show aren't going to do anything but put him in a good-humored light that is appealing to everyone. That's their job. They write funny and self-deprecating things for all sorts of celebrities to perform. I'm sure he'd get a few goofy laughs out of everyone and that's pretty much all he'd be going for. It's not like late-night talk shows where he'd actually have to ad-lib, he can't really embarrass himself short of the other obvious live TV incidents that could occur. Though the one thing Romney does have going for him is his composure in front of a camera.
#201 Apr 17 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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I totally want them to have him do a Romneybot skit.

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