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The Anti-war Government Ni-Follow

#27 Apr 02 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I blame the Catholic church for distorting Jesus' message over the hundreds of years it was in power. And I can do that, 'cause I was raised Catholic. Smiley: tongue

If the US was primarily colonized by Catholics, this would almost be a point Smiley: rolleyes
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#28 Apr 02 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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To be fair, we are still faced with the issue that all the books of the bible were selected by the early church, with enormous emphasis placed on their secular aspects.

In a 100 year span, the state of Christianity changed radically. It moved from a communal-based system to a hierarchy-based one (primarily based on the existing Roman class structure). There was no priest caste in early Christian culture, which had left that behind when the split from the Judaic system.

But the Roman Catholic church is the result of that process, not the cause of it.
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#29 Apr 02 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Be that as it may, the fact remains that the primary colonizers of British America were Protestants who, by definition, did not agree with the Catholic concept of Christianity and had reformed it to what they claimed what a more Biblical ideal. Including revising the books of the Bible itself.
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#30 Apr 02 2012 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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"Revise" is way too strong a word for what they did with the bible. They either translated the Catholic bible into the vernacular, more or less keeping it in tact, or translated it anew from the original greek version (the same the Catholic church originally translated). All they really did was reorganize the Old Testament. Didn't add or remove any books, nor did the verses change in any significant way.

The Reformation was primarily concerned with secular aspects of Catholicism. Beyond that, the two most contentious points were adult Baptism and the sacraments. Protestants rejected the Catholic notion of sacraments to restrict it to those listed in the Bible.

The Anglican church (Episcopal), however, quickly became the major religious sect in the new world. And it was vastly closer to Catholicism than any other Protestant sect. It's actually closer to Catholicism than it is to, say, Lutheranism.

Plus, I don't see where Pigtails has noted where this shift is recent. If it occurred before the Reformation, then it's completely fair to blame the church. And considering she specifically noted "when they were in power", that seems obviously the case.

If the RCC caused a change in the faith that was not reformed out, then it seems perfectly fair to blame them. Of course, that's a historical notion of blame--blaming the present church for its actions over a millennium ago isn't quite fair.
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#31 Apr 02 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against Jophiel when Catholicism is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..
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#32 Apr 02 2012 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Although I do find it funny that Jewish folks are stereotyped as being more liberal (non orthodox/hassidic anyways), where as Christians are stereotyped as being more conservative. It should be the other way around. Jesus was like the ultimate liberal in a lot of ways, and the God of the old testament was vengeful and mean - all about the eye for an eye type justice and killing the philistines and all.

My, you are full of generalizations aren't you.
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#33 Apr 02 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
"Revise" is way too strong a word for what they did with the bible.

Re-translation and elimination of multiple books?

Guess we have different definitions of the word "revise" if you don't think that counts.

In any event, it's a silly argument to take no matter how you approach it. Modern US Catholics are more socially liberal than other mainstream Christian denominations and even more so than the national norm in several areas. Blue collar Catholics have been a fairly reliable Democratic voting bloc in many areas. When one is talking about GOP-friendly Christianity, they're typically referring to capital-E Evangelicals and some more socially conservative Protestant faiths.
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#34 Apr 02 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against Jophiel when Catholicism is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..

That line should never be revised. Smiley: madSmiley: madSmiley: mad
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#35 Apr 02 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Revise is way too strong a word for what Elinda did.
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#36 Apr 02 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
"Revise" is way too strong a word for what they did with the bible.

Re-translation and elimination of multiple books?

Guess we have different definitions of the word "revise" if you don't think that counts.

In any event, it's a silly argument to take no matter how you approach it. Modern US Catholics are more socially liberal than other mainstream Christian denominations and even more so than the national norm in several areas. Blue collar Catholics have been a fairly reliable Democratic voting bloc in many areas. When one is talking about GOP-friendly Christianity, they're typically referring to capital-E Evangelicals and some more socially conservative Protestant faiths.


The Apocrypha was not removed from the Protestant bible until sometime later, so no. They didn't eliminate any of the books during the Reformation (late 19th century).*

Modern Catholic bibles are translated directly from the Latin version they used. Modern Protestant versions are translated directly from the initial Greek. The differences between them are small and, generally, meaningless. The only significant difference is a change in the ordering of the books and the fact that the Apocrypha is not found in the Protestant version.

Otherwise, the language is extremely similar.

*Late 19th century is when the books were removed.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2012 3:44pm by idiggory
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#37 Apr 02 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Edit: Actually, I don't much care. By any measure, it was a dumb remark to blame Catholicism on the modern Christian segment of the GOP and their political ideology.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2012 3:05pm by Jophiel
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#38 Apr 02 2012 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Revise is way too strong a word for what Elinda did.


Let's just say it's a good thing I hadn't just taken a big swig of coffee right then and leave it at that.
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#39 Apr 02 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Edit: Actually, I don't much care. By any measure, it was a dumb remark to blame Catholicism on the modern Christian segment of the GOP and their political ideology.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2012 3:05pm by Jophiel


I don't actually have any stake in the argument. I was just bored and in class. Discussing the history of sugar refining just wasn't fulfilling enough.
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#40 Apr 02 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Be that as it may, the fact remains that the primary colonizers of British America were Protestants who, by definition, did not agree with the Catholic concept of Christianity and had reformed it to what they claimed what a more Biblical ideal. Including revising the books of the Bible itself.


That doesn't change the fact that the Catholic Church upon its formation, significantly altered Christianity, and every sect of Christianity that exists now originated with the Catholic Church. All of the gnostic sects of Christianity were wiped out by the church before the Renaissance and the Reformation started. That was my point. I am quite well aware that the founders of our country weren't Catholic.
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#41 Apr 02 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
Elinda wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Although I do find it funny that Jewish folks are stereotyped as being more liberal (non orthodox/hassidic anyways), where as Christians are stereotyped as being more conservative. It should be the other way around. Jesus was like the ultimate liberal in a lot of ways, and the God of the old testament was vengeful and mean - all about the eye for an eye type justice and killing the philistines and all.

My, you are full of generalizations aren't you.


Stereotypes are generalizations. I didn't say I believed it, I said it was a stereotype which I found amusing. I did consider editing my post shortly after making it, and adding in that Catholics are stereotyped as being liberal as well, but I've had a nasty headache all day and couldn't be bothered.
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#42 Apr 02 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Although I do find it funny that Jewish folks are stereotyped as being more liberal (non orthodox/hassidic anyways), where as Christians are stereotyped as being more conservative. It should be the other way around. Jesus was like the ultimate liberal in a lot of ways, and the God of the old testament was vengeful and mean - all about the eye for an eye type justice and killing the philistines and all.

My, you are full of generalizations aren't you.
Have you read the Old Testament beyond Genesis? I agree with Pigtails in that particular quote, although I would have qualified it with "The Jesus portrayed in the bible was like the ultimate liberal for his time and place in a lot of ways".
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#43 Apr 03 2012 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, I'll fully admit I haven't read ALL of the Old Testament. But I've read enough to notice all the times God told the Jews to go kill these people over here, because they didn't believe in him, and they worshiped "false" gods and idols. And also how people could sin just once in their life, and they were doomed to burn in ****, before Jesus came along. That was supposed to be the entire reason for Jesus being born, and then dying on the cross. God softened up a bit, and decided to be a bit nicer.

Which is kind of a bizarre way of going about it really. I highly doubt I'm the first person to make this connection, but it's kind of messed up that God's plan for being nicer to his followers, was to have a son and make him die a slow and painful death.
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#44 Apr 03 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Which is kind of a bizarre way of going about it really. I highly doubt I'm the first person to make this connection, but it's kind of messed up that God's plan for being nicer to his followers, was to have a son and make him die a slow and painful death.


Gotta teach the boy a lesson somehow. Life isn't all hanging out in the wilderness with your hippee friends and making good wine.
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#45 Apr 11 2012 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
The thing that I find hilarious about Santorum is that he wants theocracy, but he's so bad at being "Christ-like".

I mean, who was more anti-war than the Carpenter, amirite?

Apparently, Santorum has decided that being Christ-like is still too liberal for his tastes:
Quote:
Can you believe that sermon today? I guess I never quite realized how liberal Jesus really was. He was all about giving hand-outs to people who didn’t deserve it. He should’ve realized that if he gave those people a little tough love, they could’ve gotten through those hardships on their own. I’m feeling torn between my faith and my beliefs. I can either stand by and support this apparent socialism taught from the Bible, or I can show the nation that I can be their real savior… I really have some soul-searching to do.

Link

Glad he's finally withdrawing. I hope to hear a great deal less of what is either a talented troll or a genuinely horrible person.
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#46 Apr 11 2012 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Heh.

Santorum drops out.
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#47 Apr 11 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm... pretty sure that article was satirical.
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#48 Apr 11 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Heh.

Santorum drops pulls out.

FTFY
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#49 Apr 11 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
"News That's Almost Reliable"

Yeah, I'm betting that site is satirical.
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#50 Apr 11 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
"News That's Almost Reliable"

Yeah, I'm betting that site is satirical.

They have a tab labeled "satire disclaimer".
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#51 Apr 11 2012 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Um... Wow. Please tell me you didn't actually think that was a quote from Santorum?
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