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#52 Mar 28 2012 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Samira wrote:
Yeah, crows and ravens have been symbols of disaster for centuries. I don't even know where the racism thing comes into that.



It might be a bit oversensitive to accuse Santorum of being racist for using crows in an anti-Obama video...


Let's put that one to rest: it is.

Worry not, though. I'm sure he'll say something proper racist in the next day and a half or so.

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 7:48pm by Eske


Okay fair enough. Ordinarily, it probably wouldn't have even occurred to me. But I've been reading "The Help," and also read a blog about how some people on Twitter are complaining that the character of Rue in Hunger Games ended up being black in the movie, and how it ruined it for them. So yeah, I've had race on the mind a lot the last few days.


Me as well. I think that the Trayvon Martin stuff has everyone a little bit on edge.
#53 Mar 28 2012 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rue was a girl of color in the book, too. Not specifically black, I guess, but dark-skinned. What a weird thing to complain about.

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#54 Mar 28 2012 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't read the books, but I've seen the text in question. The first description of her is that she has "very dark" skin, the second says it's "satiny brown" and the final description is her in relation to another boy where it says they have the "same dark skin."

What's even worse is that people have been saying that she wasn't the innocent little girl they expected. Have you seen pictures of her? She's like this precious little girl. It's disgusting that dark skin is enough to turn an innocent little girl into a monster in these peoples' eyes.
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#55 Mar 28 2012 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, there's the Trayvon Martin stuff too.

I haven't read the book yet, but from what the blog said, she describes Rue and the other kid from the same zone as having "dark brown skin." If I had read that before seeing the movie, I'm almost positive that I would have known that they weren't white. My sister did read the book before seeing the movie, and she said she wasn't expecting them to be black, but she could tell that they were supposed to be people of color and that it didn't bother her any that the characters ended up being black in the movie.

The particular Twitter quotes were:

Quote:
Awkward moment when Rue is some black girl and not the little innocent blond girl you pictured


Quote:
Why does Rue have to be black not gonna lie kinda ruined the movie


Quote:
Kk call me racist but when I found out Rue was black her death wasn't as sad #ihatemyself


Quote:
And for the record, im still pissed that rue is black. Like you think she might have mentioned that..? is that just me or...


The first one bothers me the most, but they're all pretty bad. Apparently all four people got attacked by people on Twitter so badly though, that their accounts got deleted. Either by themselves or whoever runs Twitter. So that made me feel a little bit better.
#56 Mar 28 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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The third bothers me more.
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#57 Mar 28 2012 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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It's kind of funny, cause if you think about it, there is a decent chance that all (or many of) the twitter posts are trolls, and now everyone is getting angry about it.
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#58 Mar 28 2012 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
It's kind of funny, cause if you think about it, there is a decent chance that all (or many of) the twitter posts are trolls, and now everyone is getting angry about it.
You're welcome.
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#59 Mar 28 2012 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
Yeah Digg, that was the main reason that first quote bothered me so much. What, a black little girl can't be innocent? A little girl is still a little girl, and she can be innocent no matter what color her skin is. I think the fact that this individual pictured Rue with blond hair is particularly telling. In their eyes, Rue was white in skin tone and in hair color. Not that people consciously associate hair color with how pure a person is in modern times, but in Shakespeare's time they certainly did. We still do have a tendency to associate white with purity (hence the whole white wedding crap).
#60 Mar 28 2012 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The third bothers me more.


The only reason the third one doesn't bother me as much is because the guy put the "ihatemyself" hashtag in there. That at least shows that he knows full well that the thought is messed up and possibly feels some shame for having it. Not enough shame to not post it on the internet of course, but some at least. The other three are just so blase about it, like there is absolutely nothing wrong with their screwed up opinions.
#61 Mar 28 2012 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The third bothers me more.

Agreed. Even though they said that hate themselves for it, it's just terrible.
#62 Mar 28 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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The IHATEMYSELF tag actually makes it worse, imo, because it becomes part of the joke. If he was actually at all disgusted with himself, he wouldn't have posted it. This isn't like laughing at a joke while covering your mouth, it's mocking the idea that there's something wrong in the first place.
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#63 Mar 28 2012 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I assumed the black birds were grackles because grackles are assholes.
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#64 Mar 28 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I assumed the black birds were grackles because grackles are assholes.

My best friend is in love with grackles. I don't understand.
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#65 Mar 28 2012 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The IHATEMYSELF tag actually makes it worse, imo, because it becomes part of the joke. If he was actually at all disgusted with himself, he wouldn't have posted it. This isn't like laughing at a joke while covering your mouth, it's mocking the idea that there's something wrong in the first place.


I hadn't thought of it that way. I know close to nothing about Twitter or what the culture vibe is like, because the whole hash tag thing and the layout confused me when I signed up, and I've never used it since.
#66 Mar 28 2012 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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It wasn't necessarily meant to be seen that way, per se, but that's likely the motivation for posting it. By adding the tag, the poster made himself feel better. But it's clearly not true--he doesn't actually hate himself, and he's only superficially ashamed (if actually ashamed at all). So it's patting himself on the back for knowing what he said was disgusting, which takes the pressure off of him for having to account for that opinion.

It's kinda like when someone says "I don't mean to be racist..." 99/100 times, what they follow that is going to be extremely racist. They add the prephase to soften what they say, and try to make it more acceptable. But, in reality, it's not changing anything. Whether or not your intent is to be racist doesn't change the fact that you are. But instead of actually owning that in a real way, and trying to dispel your ignorance, you hide behind your 'intention' so that your bigotry goes unchallenged.
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#67 Mar 28 2012 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regardless, the only complaint I've read about the movie that seemed halfway sane was that it too slavishly followed the book. One reviewer called it "stenography in light", which I thought was pretty funny. I'll wait until I see it to pass judgment. The books were a fun read.

And yeah, "satiny dark skin" reads "black" to me. Grackles think these people are aSSholes.

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#68 Mar 28 2012 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
By adding the tag, the poster made himself feel better. But it's clearly not true--he doesn't actually hate himself, and he's only superficially ashamed (if actually ashamed at all).
Why would he be even slightly ashamed? It's so clearly a troll tweet that anyone that so much as thought twice about it should be ashamed of themselves, not the original poster.
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#69 Mar 28 2012 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Not from what I can tell. I saw the original tweet, and his account is more or less just normal stuff for people he knows. Possible it was trolling, but no good reason to suspect it was.

[EDIT]
IIRC, the poster actually deleted said tweet and messaged the tumblr blogger (who had been compiling images of all of them) to remove it, because he realized that it was really just him being super ignorant. The twitter account has since been taken down.

Generally, if you are going to troll like that, you do so anonymously.

Edited, Mar 29th 2012 12:50am by idiggory
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#70 Mar 28 2012 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Not from what I can tell.
Then you should probably delete any access to the internet you have. It's too hard for you.

It's all about eliciting a reaction. This post: Success. Smiley: grin

Edited, Mar 29th 2012 1:11am by lolgaxe
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#71 Mar 29 2012 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
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I've had my own revelation of a deep well of prejudice I didn't even know I had, so I'm actually inclined to approve of the third tweet. The tweeter might not be in a good position, but it sounds like they have gained some self knowledge, and that's always a good thing.

I was surprised and shocked with myself one day to realise I actually had a deep prejudice. A decade before 9/11 I did a semester of Islam Studies. I learned a lot about their history, culture, art, architecture and religious philosophy. I met the Sufi sect, and Rumi. From early on, Muslims had a rule that you don't sleep with your feet pointing towards Mecca, it's disrespectful to God. Rumi said: Show me a place where God is not, and I'll sleep with my feet pointing that way. He was not only intelligent about metaphysics, he was a fantastic poet. Anyway, during that semester, I realised, that although I prided myself on my open mind, and non prejudice, I DID pre judge Muslim culture because the things I knew most about it and concentrated on were the female genital mutilation (which I thought was only a Muslim thing, I did not know that most Christians and Jews in North Africa and the Middle East practised it) and the enforced wearing of the burka in fundamentalist nations.

Edited, Mar 29th 2012 4:47am by Aripyanfar
#72 Mar 29 2012 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
Except that the tweeter gave no reason for his prejudice and I think it's pretty obvious the character in question didn't fit any negative stereotypes . . .

Also every racist has a reason for their racism weather it's taught or a bad experience, plus recognizing you have a problem is only the first step. (not that I condone any 12 step programs.)
#73 Mar 29 2012 at 5:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ari wrote:
I DID pre judge Muslim culture because the things I knew most about it and concentrated on were the female genital mutilation (which I thought was only a Muslim thing, I did not know that most Christians and Jews in North Africa and the Middle East practised it) and the enforced wearing of the burka in fundamentalist nations.


/shrug

You judge, whether you realize it or not, based on what you hear and on what you, personally, see. Obviously you hear a lot of information of mixed reliability, and you only see the public culture. An open mind is a mind that acknowledges its own limitations and is willing to accommodate new information.

I knew the part about female genital mutilation being culturally confined, largely, to north and west Africa. I didn't know the part about not sleeping with your feet to the east. And I've often thought that burqas would be freeing, in a way.
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#74 Mar 29 2012 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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If a woman, or man for that matter, wanted to wear a burqa totally of their own free will, for their own reasons, religious, social, or not, I have nothing against it. I just knew of too many cases where modest dress rules are imposed by family or social arbiters on unwilling women and girls. Like the case where a burqa wearing woman rode her bicycle with her husband, and a Fundamentalist militant shot her for lewdly displaying her ankles.

Oh yeah, prior to that semester, I was also aware of some of the horrible aspects of Sharia Law, and how it is imposed, and how it's not updated to reflect modern forensics. Like a woman needing four male witnesses to testify that she was raped, if she's raped. Otherwise she is put to death for infidelity or lewd behaviour. Knowing the extremities of Fundamentalist Muslim cultural behaviour, without a balancing knowledge of details of other aspects of various Muslim cultures really made me unconsciously despise the religion.

It is like if I despised the whole of Christianity and Western nations because the Catholic Church is trying like crazy to suppress the use of condoms in AIDs-ridden Northern Africa.

Edited, Mar 29th 2012 8:09am by Aripyanfar
#75 Mar 29 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah Digg, that was the main reason that first quote bothered me so much. What, a black little girl can't be innocent? A little girl is still a little girl, and she can be innocent no matter what color her skin is. I think the fact that this individual pictured Rue with blond hair is particularly telling. In their eyes, Rue was white in skin tone and in hair color. Not that people consciously associate hair color with how pure a person is in modern times, but in Shakespeare's time they certainly did. We still do have a tendency to associate white with purity (hence the whole white wedding crap).

My son is so white you can see through him. His hair is white and he has bright blue eyes.

He is the devil himself.

People are stupid.
#76 Mar 29 2012 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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Yea, my son's pretty white and has blond hair too and he's entirely demonic.
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